Question for AE Owners

[Dale Franks]

As I mentioned in a previous post, the local Yamaha dealer is really quite keen to get me into a 2008 AE--for a really, really good price--that was used as a corporate demo model. It has 3600 miles, and they are offering a 2-year, unlimited mileage warranty, including free towing.

The drawback, in my mind, is that it is an AE model, and I'm a bit superstitious about the automatic clutch feature. It seems like a neat deal, but how it works at low speeds concerns me. That seems to be borne out be some reviews I've read. I'm curious how the AE owners responds to some of the statements in the reviews that indicate low-speed operation with the automatic clutch is a bit tricky.

The system is most intrusive during low-speed maneuvers when a carefully controlled shot of power is needed to balance the bike. There is a tiny but worrying moment before the clutch delivers what you ask. For non-experts and those who are familiar with a CVT's centrifugal clutch application, YCC-S can be a useful application. It also simplifies the duties for a commuter in heavy stop-and-go traffic. However, there is simply no way that any auto-clutch gizmo can be as quickly reactive as an expert rider's clutch hand.

And:

It was those u-turns that drove home the importance of the finesse an experienced rider utilizes with a manual clutch -- smoothing out power pulses and fuel injection surges at low rpm. Without a traditional clutch, the FJR1300AE felt jerky, and a bit difficult to control in some of these tight confines (including brief, off-road excursions to complete the u-turns on the narrow roads).

And:

You are probably wondering how we got along with the automatic clutch system (described in greater detail in our introduction article). The short answer is not very well, and I am afraid that I would have to recommend the standard clutch to riders of just about every skill level. Why? Take a look at my initial complaints in the press introduction article. With more experience on the bike, the performance of the automatic clutch actually became more annoying to me.
Low speed maneuverability can be tricky, as we previously pointed out. My long-term tester also seemed a bit more abrupt when transitioning from closed throttle to open throttle (a combination of the automatic clutch performance and the fuel injection on the FJR). While this was a complaint I had initially, with more time, I actually became more annoyed with this aspect of the bike's performance.

And:

In the end, low speed operation of the FJR1300AE really didn't bother me too much, but I think the skill level required at low speed is almost greater than with a manual clutch.

Reading the above makes it seem to me like the AE requires a rock-steady throttle hand, and carries a bit of danger that, at low rpms, like a parking lot U-turn, dropping off the throttle a lite will cause the clutch to kick in, and deprive you of power in the middle of the turn. In addition, there are complaints of kerkiness, etc., although that may be an artifact of testing 2006 models. And, this stuff all comes from professional motorcycle writers, all of whom usually have strange, built-in biases. They may just dislike the YCC-S system, because they are neandethals that prefer what they know: the manual clutch. So they may be making mountains out of molehills.

So, how yould you guys that actually own the AE, instead of driving it for a few hours, respond to these kinds of statements about the AE's low-speed operation?

Is this just not an issue once you get used to the bike's quirks?

What you say the learning curve is for figuring out the low-speed characteristics of the AE?

How much of the jerkiness has been fixed by Yamaha since 2006?

What kind of performance hit, if any, does the AE model take due to the YCC-S system?

Any insight you could give me would be appreciated.

 

[skifrik]

It's about as hard as riding your mini-bike when you were a kid!

 

[FJRocket]

If you're a "drop and burn" kind of rider, you won't like it much. Since I'm not in to wheelies or burn outs, my AE performs terrifically from a stop.

There is a learning curve at low end, but with my unmodified stock throttle (except spring removed), low speed turns and parking lot manuevers are a non issue. If you can ride any heavy motorcycle at low speed, you can ride an AE, and you'll be quite happy with it. Adapting to an AE is NO BIG DEAL.

After 25000 miles, I don't even think about the clutch handle any more, and don't miss it a bit. Well, maybe sometimes when I'm feeling frisky and would like to have a little more control on the "**** and git". But don't be fooled, if you drop the hammer on an AE, it WILL git with the program. And the computers seem remarkably adept at knowing how you want it to control the clutch.

Now I don't know what, if anything, inside the computers that Yamaha might have changed or improved, but like I said, my early model AE works beautifully. I don't think you'd be disappointed, especially if you're going to get a smokin deal!

 

[Rickster]

I can't respond to the differences between my 2006 AE and current, but here's my $.02.

I have the G2 ergo cam installed, and that smoothed things out just fine for me.

After you get used to the system, it works just as naturally and easily as I could imagine.

I've ridden motorcycles since 1985, and this is the first YCCS system I've ever ridden.

It took a few hours to get used to it, then about 600 miles to perfect my shifting (no different learning curve than any other manual clutch system)

I still have 3 street bikes (Aprilia, SV650, and the FJR), and have zero problems switching from one to the other.

With slow speed maneuvers, search, and you will find lots of tips, and tricks -- mostly dragging the rear brake a little (however, I don't find I need to do that)

Best of luck on whatever you decide!

 

[BwanaDik]

Zero issues. Nada, zip, no. I've got a 2006 so it did have the usual first year minor glitches. However, these were taken care of with the G2 mod and a Powercommander. I didn't do the throttle spring thing, the end of the cable would not pass between the TB and the linkage without some effort so I left it alone.

From what I've read, all these are sorted out on the '08.

I initially went to the dealer looking for a clutch model but he had the AE. I wanted to "try it on" for a fit with me and my wife, just to make sure the FJR was what we wanted. He let me take it on a test ride (I think he saw me coming) so I roared off down the feeder road (frontage road for you non Texas types) and pulled onto a small country lane. Had to turn around on gravel over broken asphalt in a really narrow spot but no problems. When back to the shop and bought it.

I'll take on anybody with a clutch in slow speed manuvers. As has been mentioned, maybe a slight drag on the rear brake to steady everything up. The linked braking system works beautifully at this as using slight pressure only activates the rear brake, not both front and rear. The only place where I'm a little shy is when I want to accelerate from a stop in one lane into a fast moving gap in the next lane. We're all trained and used to slipping the hell out of the clutch with the engine reved, just to be sure not to stall with 40MPH oncoming traffic. The AE will hook up quickly and get you the hell away in no time. Just a matter of practice.

I've also got three other bikes with clutches and have no problem going back and forth. I really like not having a clutch.

 

[topanga]

First off, I am not one of those people who is fanatic "this is the best bike I've ever owned" about the type/brand of bike I buy. If I don't end up really enjoying the bike, it goes away quick to be replaced by my next flight of fancy. I like and have owned over 20 bikes in my life, I am only loyal to quality and styling that appeals to me at the moment, so here's my 2 cents.

I've put 12k on my 2006 since last August. It's totally stock, except that the actuator update was done. Like you, I was really-really leery of an auto-clutch until I test road the one I eventually bought.

All bikes have quirks, the AE has some differences at slow speeds because of the auto-clutch, and it does do some odd things occasionally, as many have noted, but it's very occasionally. It's definitely not absolutely perfect, but I objectively can't concur with some of the sky is falling comments quoted. Really, you have no idea how well it does work, and I haven't modified a thing on mine, nor do I intend to. The throttle on the FJR's are more of an issue to me than the auto-clutch, although it too doesn't bother me that much.

I've taken mine to the MSF range with a buddy to prove to him that I could do anything he could do on his C14 at slow speed (actually I was better at some stuff than he was). We swapped bikes and he slowly, grudgingly admitted it was totally cool, and he's a total luddite. You pretty quickly adapt to the throttle & rear break as a substitute for the clutch feathering if needed.

That said, I can see why some people wouldn't want it, it is different, and if you don't want any adjustment in your riding slow speed or what you're used to, don't bother. Everyone is different and the A and a bunch of other very nice bikes are there waiting. I understand that for sure, it was a real leap for me at first.

But man, on the open road, in traffic, taking corners, it's so cool, effortless to just bang away at the paddle shifter. I only use the foot shifter every now and then just to make sure it still works. Remember a lot of hi-performance cars have adopted similar shifting mechanisms.

I fully intend to seriously consider a new AE in the running when I go to get my next bike next year if that says anything. I've grown so accustomed to the AE, that it would be hard to go back to a regular clutch on this class of machine.

 

[canucklehead-biker]

What they said...

I have an '06, and after the initial learning curve the electric clutch is a no-brainer. I'm still learning the rear brake dance at ultra-low speeds, but don't anticipate major issues.

From all the posts I've seen on here, reliability isn't an issue.

Let us know what you decide!

Griff

 

[Silverbullet]

Gunny to all above. And I would add that I sold my '04 to a friend of mine when I bought the AE. I ride with him often, and the only place he gets me in a drag race is off the line. Above 5 mph, the bikes run completely even.

 

[mcatrophy]

The only issue I have is when I enter my drive from the road, it's a narrow, tight turn, and up hill.

What this means is, if I slow as I start the turn, it is possible for the clutch to disengage at a critical moment so I have to wind up the throttle to get drive (or the bike will drop), possibly snatching, not nice.

My routine now is to slow sufficiently for the clutch to disengage whilst still in a straight line, then wind on throttle, apply a little "drag" on the foot brake, then there is no issue entering the turn with the clutch slipping..

I also will do this on very tight "parking" turns.

It sounds much worse than it is, it just means going a little slower than I would have with a manual clutch, and it's now totally automatic for me.

 

[Ford68xl]

I just passed 1,000 miles on my AE. I can't say anything more than has already been written. It still puzzels me as to why the rags don't like it. I love my AE.

 

[kulwen]

I have been on my AE for 13 months and 26,000 miles. It took me some time, but I can do the MSF u-turns without a problem now. Anything I could do with a clutch I can now do without it.

My early issues were fixed with the G2 throttle tube. As many have noted the stock throttle control sucked. Since the AE models don't have a clutch to work around the throttle issue many felt the AE was not as good as it should be. However, the issue was the throttle, not the AE features. After I installed the G2 tube my issues went away.

I do the u-turns every weekend when teaching MSF classes and after class make the u-turns on my bike for practice. However, in the real world have never needed to make a u-turn with such a small radius.

 

[Wild72]

G2 throttle tube and some gentle caressing of the rear brake has cured any erratic slow speed turns for me.

Only problem I had adapting to no clutch, was sounding the horn instead of downshifting, but that only lasted a day or three. I now use my forefinger for both up and downshifting and really couldn't be happier with the AE. (Unless it was an 08, and in black!!!).

 

[cptngym]

I am coming up on 1 year and 10,000 miles soon. I dropped it 3 days after I bought it in a low speed parking lot deal. Since then I added a Corbin seat to get a little closer to the ground and the G2 throttle cam. That G2 makes all the differance in the world and by using the rear brake a bit to finesse the slow speed turns I can do most anything you can do with a clutch. I have been riding since 1979 and this is a great bike. :yahoo:

 

[SR-71]

This forum is probably not going to get you into your comfort zone concerning your AE vs A decision. After reading everyone's comments and opinions you still won't really know whether YOU like the AE or not, because everyone's wants, needs, expectations are different.

Suggestion. Since it's a demo, and like you say, the dealer is keen on selling you the bike, odds are he will probably let you test drive it. Go drive the beast. You already have experience with standard clutch bikes. One test drive on an AE should provide you with what you need to know. Then go plunk down your $$$ on the AE, or walk (over to an A model). Simple... Niki.

SR-71

 

[mfletch69]

Love my AE and would go that way again. You get used to it just like anything else.

 

[turbodave_98]

Tell me who is the dealer and I will go and look at it and strongly consider it for the purchase price that you posted, if you are no longer interested. That is a great deal.. I know other riders that have picked up FJRs 03-04 models from Yamaha at Cypress and the bikes have not been abused.

I have had an 05 FJR and had one of the initial 06 AE bikes delivered in USA. I kept both of the bikes for about 2 years and split time on both of them while doing several IBA certified rides, including several of the Extreme rated rides. Both bikes performed great as they both had fuel cells installed. They are very much the same in all aspects except the gear change process.

Myself and several other FJR LDRs did a SS1K IBA certified ride all within the city limits of Los Angeles. I believe I was the only AE in the bunch. The nearly 600 miles of lane splitting on the AE was absolutely not tiring for me due to the paddle shifting, sans the clutch lever. And I am not a spring chicken rider nearly 67 years old.

Learning to safely control the AE does take a short period of time in a parking lot to learn how the bike accelerates in slow speed and tight spaces.

In summary, I sold the 05 and kept the AE as my prefered FJR for all aspects of my riding. I strongly endorse the AE features.

 

[uctofeej]

So, how yould you guys that actually own the AE, instead of driving it for a few hours, respond to these kinds of statements about the AE's low-speed operation?

They're b.s. Most of the reviews I read were nowhere near my experience. I've always thought their "it's an answer to a question no one asked" line is about as ass-backward as one can get. By their line of thinking, we would still be riding around in horse-drawn buggies.

Is this just not an issue once you get used to the bike's quirks?
What you say the learning curve is for figuring out the low-speed characteristics of the AE?

Not an issue for me.

I spent some time practicing in a parking lot, maybe a couple weeks before I felt smooth and comfortable with it.

How much of the jerkiness has been fixed by Yamaha since 2006?

No idea

What kind of performance hit, if any, does the AE model take due to the YCC-S system?

I doubt you could take the A model in a drag race, but once moving there isn't any performance difference. I would even venture a guess that the finger shifter is quicker than and doesn't unsettle the bike as much as the foot shifter.

 

[2006FJR]

My next FJR will be another AE. It looks like everything has already been said. I use the rear break in slow speed turns for very smooth turns and I mean buttery smooth. Without the rear break I can still make clean slow speed turns at a high lean angle but the rear break gives me even more confidence. If I can coming down from the high revs into a very tight low speed turn, for example I am seeing the light just turn yellow and I am in the left hand turn lane and I want to do a U-Turn, I need to be a little more careful. If you are carring any revs at all 2k for example the bike can be a handful if you grab some front brake through the turn. I did this a few times on accident and nothing happened but it was very jerky. That was one of the few times I wish I had a clutch for a little cleaner control. I am really looking hard for something bad to tell you but the truth is the bike is amazing and I am glad I did it.

 

[Big-B]

I just bought an '06 AE from out in Albuquerque in March and have put over 3,200 miles on it over the past month. I do not notice any of the issues with the throttle that others have had. The guy I bought it from swears he did not make any mods to account for it other than adding a useless universal fit Vista Cruise throttle lock.

I have not noticed slow speed maneuvers to be any more or less difficult than with a clutch. So far I have not seen the need for dragging the back brake. But, then again I never really have used the back brake on any bike.

The thing I haven't gotten use to is operating a stack of switches with my left thumb. With the AE there are five buttons that you use on a regular basis. Don't know if I'm turning or shifting half the time :dribble: And I get to wave at a lot of people after I honk the horn.

I still have an '05 with ABS that I need to get sold so I am able to compare and contrast firsthand. Other than starting off from the line they seem to have pretty comparable performance. I think I can actually have smoother shifts with the thumb shifter on the AE.

Couple odd things:

• It can't be shifted unless the switch is on. Put it in neutral before you turn it off so you can push it if you need to.
• Have to enable the thumb shifter every time you start the bike. Just annoying.
• No coasting. Give up trying to stretch that last gallon of gas.

After riding it for 3200 miles this past month, I would do it over again. No regrets. If you think you're halfway interested, just go get it.

Brian