Radar Detector Observations

[Big-D]

Radar detectors work if the conditions are just perfect. However, law enforcement has become very educated in there war against speeders.

First, you have to understand how a radar detector works. As your favorite police traffic enforcement person is sitting there with his radar gun pointed at traffic, they usually set the alarm to go off at a certain speed. Lets say the speed limit is 35mph and they set their radar gun at 43mph. unless you are exceeding 43mph their alarm will not sound and you will drive by unnoticed. If you exceed the set speed, the alarm goes off and he puts his report board down and commences to light you up.

Now radar works in the sense that the beam has to hit your vehicle and then bounce back to his police unit. If you are so far away that the beam does not have the power to bounce back, you have time to slow down before he nails you. Now for Police technology. Most police now use the high-tech VASCAR units. This radar gun has the ability to transmit on low power. What this means is, once your $350 radar detector goes off, it’s too late. Because it operates on low power, once you are within range to be detected, the signal has no problem bouncing back to the patrol unit. So your fancy radar detector only lets you know that you have been had. Its too late, if he wants you, you’re done for. But again, it all depends who he is looking for. If he is watching the freeways or expressways, he’ll probably set his alarm at 85-90mph or maybe even faster than that. He wants the guys that are going to support city and generate the most revenue for the area that particular officer is working for. If he (or she) sets the radar until for say 81mph on a 75mph freeway, they will be busy all of the time and then there is a good chance your ticket may be thrown out because regardless of what the officer says, all speedometers are different, even if only by 3-4mph. If he is watching the freeway, he wants those $500+ fines. It’s better to write 5 $500-$1000 tickets than 15 $100 tickets.

If you like to speed at the $500+ range ticket area, and then by all means invest in a radar jamming device that will also jam laser radar guns. Otherwise you are fooling yourself. Believe me, if you pass that cop doing 82mph in a 75mph area and he doesn’t light you up that is only because he is looking for bigger fish. Beside, if you pass him doing a nice 120mph, it becomes much more fun for him to chase you down, arrest you, and impound your bike all the while knowing by the time your case is over, the city or state will make $2500 to $10,000 on you. That pays for a lot of needed equipment.

 

[keithaba]

They must not have these high tech units in Louisville, because I have never seen a radar trap that my X50 didn't sniff out 1/2 to 1 mile prior to him even being in sight.

The most difficult ones to avoid are those who use instant on. They don't sit with the radar detector emitting a wave. They wait until you come in sight, then the switch it on. When the beam hits you, your radar goes off and results in a situation like you described.

Fortunately for me, they don't do that either in Louisville.

 

[LDRydr]

Radar detectors are simply an additional tool in your arsenal. Keeping your eyes wide open is still the best tool you have for ticket avoidance (other than riding the speed limit of course).

If you want to learn more about radar I'd recommend you go to the Valentine-1 website and read the Ask Mike section. To learn about LEO radar strategy read the "Tales from the combat zone" section where users write in about how their V-1 saved them.

Some key points I picked up were:

Forget all about the battery-powered detectors. They don't have enough juice to be powerful enough to pick up the signal far enough away to help you avoid getting tagged. READ THIS

Having arrows showing you which direction the radar signal is coming from, and how many signals it's picking up, are good things. I've had at least a half-dozen incidents where a LEO was sneeking up behind me out on rural roads and I was able to avoid a confrontation simply because I knew he was back there.

While a "stealth" install is cool and may be waterproof it's also limiting the sensitivity of the unit. Yes, it can "see" through you and your tank bag or fairing, but not as well as if it wasn't in anything except a waterproof cover sitting high up on your dash-shelf.

Neither the V-1 or the optional remote audio or display units like water so keep them dry (speaking from experience here). When you try to send them in under warranty for repair they'll know they're not working because they got wet. Trust me on this.

 

[Bounce]

Some problems with the above:

1. VASCAR isn't even RADAR. it's simply an observational system that uses time between 2 points and math to calculate speed. If you consider hundreds of years old time/distance/speed calculations that can be done in your head, "technology", then even Wiki is right. Of course a radar detector isn't going to detect a non-radar based method like this. Neither will it detect someone in a plane overhead using the same technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VASCAR

2. Detectors don't need "perfect" circumstances to work.

3. Jammers of any kind are typically illegal in the US due to FCC restrictions on broadcasting.

4. A "low powered" source still has to deal with the distance there and back. Lowering the power output also shortens the distances that the signal can travel. Therefore a detector still has the advantage of getting the signal at the half-way point on its round trip and being able to detect before the source can hear a signal that has to travel twice as far (there and back again). Sounds like you're confusing instant-on with low-output.

5. Cops don't always set their "alarms" and when they do, it's based on their mood and work load as to how sensitive (+x) they want it set at. As such, instead of relying on some vague +8 safety margin, it's always better to ride aware and armed with the level of counter measures you are comfortable using to enhance your visual observations.

So, other than a rant against detectors based on inaccurate information, I'm not quite sure I understand your point (or agree with what I think it's trying to say).

 

[ionbeam]

Radar detectors are a popular topic. From days past: >>LINK 1<< --and-- >>LINK 2<<

 

[deer slayer]

Detectors or any other counter measures are not 100% but I will tell you from years of personal experience that my Escort 8500 works and has saved me numerous tickets. By both alerting me that there is a risk and keep it down until clear and by giving me enough time to nail the brakes before the radar can get a lock.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Radar detectors work if the conditions are just perfect. However, law enforcement has become very educated in there war against speeders.
First, you have to understand how a radar detector works. As your favorite police traffic enforcement person is sitting there with his radar gun pointed at traffic, they usually set the alarm to go off at a certain speed. Lets say the speed limit is 35mph and they set their radar gun at 43mph. unless you are exceeding 43mph their alarm will not sound and you will drive by unnoticed. If you exceed the set speed, the alarm goes off and he puts his report board down and commences to light you up.

Now radar works in the sense that the beam has to hit your vehicle and then bounce back to his police unit. If you are so far away that the beam does not have the power to bounce back, you have time to slow down before he nails you. Now for Police technology. Most police now use the high-tech VASCAR units. This radar gun has the ability to transmit on low power. What this means is, once your $350 radar detector goes off, it’s too late. Because it operates on low power, once you are within range to be detected, the signal has no problem bouncing back to the patrol unit. So your fancy radar detector only lets you know that you have been had. Its too late, if he wants you, you’re done for. But again, it all depends who he is looking for. If he is watching the freeways or expressways, he’ll probably set his alarm at 85-90mph or maybe even faster than that. He wants the guys that are going to support city and generate the most revenue for the area that particular officer is working for. If he (or she) sets the radar until for say 81mph on a 75mph freeway, they will be busy all of the time and then there is a good chance your ticket may be thrown out because regardless of what the officer says, all speedometers are different, even if only by 3-4mph. If he is watching the freeway, he wants those $500+ fines. It’s better to write 5 $500-$1000 tickets than 15 $100 tickets.

If you like to speed at the $500+ range ticket area, and then by all means invest in a radar jamming device that will also jam laser radar guns. Otherwise you are fooling yourself. Believe me, if you pass that cop doing 82mph in a 75mph area and he doesn’t light you up that is only because he is looking for bigger fish. Beside, if you pass him doing a nice 120mph, it becomes much more fun for him to chase you down, arrest you, and impound your bike all the while knowing by the time your case is over, the city or state will make $2500 to $10,000 on you. That pays for a lot of needed equipment.

I donno where you got all this info, but it is, for the most part, blatently wrong. Back in the old days, cops used to set their radar to not tone until a certian speed was reached, but most quality radars do not have that function these days. As someone already pointed out, VASCAR is a time/distance calculation that any good radar unit will provide. Basically, I measure a distance between two markers. I input that distance into my Kustom Golden Eagle and when a car passes the first marker, I hit the button. When it passes the second marker, I hit the button again and the unit automatically calculates a speed based on the amount of time it took the car to travel x-amount of feet. No radar signal is ever put out so no detector will EVER work. This is also kind of time consuming to set up, so for the most part, most cops I know don't use it much.

Radar signals have changed a LOT in the past 10-15 years. Now the doppler is some type of digital signal which is much thinner and has a higher frequency than in years past. This makes for a better signal return and more precise measurements. This has nothing to do with high and low power units. Nearly ALL radar units are equipped with instant on/off. Basically, my radar is up and running, doing internal ECU calibration checks every 5 seconds. We are trained to estimate a vehicle's speed with a few percentage points, so when a car appears to be going too fast, I turn my radar signal on (same button as before) and I get an almost instant reading. You can't slow down fast enough. If I can see you, I already have your speed.

Radar "jammers" are a waste of time. During my time as a traffic officer and crash reconstructionist, my unit tested them ALL. They do not work. Why you ask. Well...The major radar unit producing companies are constantly trying to imporve their product. Once they put something new out on the market, their electronics are propriatery and patented. After about a year, they sell their technology to the companies producing the detectors and those places all sell their new units claiming to have the latest and greatest. Problem is the latest and greatest is sitting on my dashboard, not yours.

Since I am no longer in traffic, I don't have my Golden Eagle any more, but it is by far the best unit on the market. Most US agencies use Kustom's products becasue of their reputation and continued quality. The radar can measure cars moving towards me while I am moving; Cars moving away from me behind me while I am moving; and cars moving towards or away from me in the same direction while I am moving. It can also do all of this while the police car is stationary. It can determine the fastest speed, not just the biggest signal and continue to track a car's speed after a speed has been locked. The new units also plug into a police car's speedometer servo to make sure the radar unit is tracking the correct patrol speed, basically taking out one of the biggest potential errors a unit will make.

A radar detector is good becasue it will warn you if you happen to pick up a cop tagging people in front of you with his instant on, and many times, at a traffic scene, many guys will turn their unit on so that people with radar detectors will begin to slow. As already said, detectors are just a tool, but don't be surprised if you get popped anyway. I used to love it when I would use my Golden Eagle to stop a car and the driver would complain that it was not him I got cuz his detector never went off. I would have to explain that his detector did not read my higher frequency wave, or somehow otherwise failed. I have had about 2 or 3 detectors crushed on the side of the road by their mad owner while I issue a $280 citation.

Finally, Laser is not radar. This also uses time/distance readings, just in a much faster sequence. At about 1000 feet the laser beam is only 3 feet wide, so it is very car specific and easy to use. Basically, the cop points at your car and pulls the trigger. The laser bounces off your car and back to the unit. The unit measures how far your car was at the first pulse and the sends out a second pulse to determine how close you are now. If I remember correctly, the unit does this about 700 times a second (Its either 7 or 700, but now I can't remember. I think its 700). A laser is harder to detect becasue all a detector can pick up is some stray beam being bounced off a car nearby. Those stray beams are very weak and very few. BTW, a traffic laser CANNOT blind you. The infared laser is about 20x less powerful than your TV remote so there is zero risk. The best targets with a laser are license plates, headlights, tailgates, grills and the top of a helmet. And even if those things are not present, all it means is that the laser's ability to reach out to farther distances is lowered.

There is obviously much more too all of this than what I just posted, but it gives you a sense as to why not to believe everything you read on the internet. Everyone drive safe and watch your speed.

 

[ponyfool]

Where'd you get that info Big D?

HotRodZilla is dead on accurate with his assessment. I wish we had the Golden Eagle stuff. I used it a few times when partnered with another agency, but our Genesis units SUCK! However, we do have the LTI lidar that I like.

 

[brazos parker]

In the interests of full disclosure, I don't have a radar detector. I still maintain, as stated in other posts on this subject, that a well trained LEO using instant-on radar/lidar will defeat a radar detector almost every time. So, if you're running by yourself, w/out a "rabbit" out front, get ready to "crush your radar detector by the side of the road" when you get popped. The information the detector will give you is the "instant" your speed was locked-in to the LEO's unit.

That's my story & I'm sticking to it...until someone convinces me otherwise...Ponyfool? HotRodZilla?

And the info about "...travel there and back..." is totally bogus...the beam travels at 186,000 miles/sec, so go figure.

 

[wfooshee]

I had a detector in my car for years, but almost always caught the LEO (plane, chopper, moving unit, parked unit, whoever) visually before the device went off. "Visually" includes traffic behavior, not necessarily sighting the unit, by the way.

When the unit died, I never replaced it, and I've never missed it.

Situational Awareness works way better, and is cheaper.

 

[Bounce]

And the info about "...travel there and back..." is totally bogus...the beam travels at 186,000 miles/sec, so go figure.

i don;t think so, Tim. what i described was a function of signal strength and not time. no matter how fast a signal is it still has a maximum effective range. that range (X) must include the round trip for the gun (X/2) but not for the detector (X). so the detector's potential is twice the range of the source.

again, regardless of how fast the signal moves.

 

[kaitsdad]

I had a detector in my car for years, but almost always caught the LEO (plane, chopper, moving unit, parked unit, whoever) visually before the device went off. "Visually" includes traffic behavior, not necessarily sighting the unit, by the way.
When the unit died, I never replaced it, and I've never missed it.

Situational Awareness works way better, and is cheaper.

I agree. I have a RD on my bike, and it's the first one I've ever had. It's main function for me is the voltage read out. As to radar hits - all it does is alert me to the presence of a LEO - and I then try to spot the officer, and wave "Hi !".

When my RD unit fails, I'll just install the Datel unit I've had sitting on a shelf for the last two years.

Anyone that rides like the RD gives them protection will most likely be donating to the local coffers.

 

[brazos parker]

And the info about "...travel there and back..." is totally bogus...the beam travels at 186,000 miles/sec, so go figure.

i don;t think so, Tim. what i described was a function of signal strength and not time. no matter how fast a signal is it still has a maximum effective range. that range (X) must include the round trip for the gun (X/2) but not for the detector (X). so the detector's potential is twice the range of the source.

again, regardless of how fast the signal moves.

If X in your statement above is 1000 feet...the beam is travelling so fast, it makes no difference if the detector has several X more range than the source. Just do the calculation.

Even if what you say is accurate, let's add on your reaction time and slow down time...

Let's not argue this ad naseum...it has been argured many times before. If a detector gives you a sense of security from LEO's, then by all means go for it and good for you! I'll just use common sense and the speedo...

BP, out.

 

[odot]

Wow, this thread turned into a circle jerk fast. One more day..........

 

[HaulinAshe]

I own two Escort 8500 RD units. One is primary, one is backup. Cager has its own Cobra unit.

I also own several performance awards, many of which are less than two years old.

RD units are NOT a license to speed. If you treat it as such you will get nailed.

If you depend on the RD alone to warn you, when you are the "rabbit", you will get nailed. (All my riding buddies are sooo welcomed!)

The whole RD industry is a cat & mouse game as stated above. Yes, the RD saves me some tickets, but it will never save me all of them. If I happen upon an unmarked LEO who waits to hit the button, I'm sooo screwed!

People ask me all the time, "Why don't you buy a RD?" I own three dumbass!!!

"Well, why do you have so many tickets?" Because I ride safe & fast, I typically lead most groups, and my bike looks like it's doing 100 mph when sitting still. Oh, and the last reason... I ride my bike, I don't polish chrome. 36,000 miles last year and not one of them without a RD.

Bottom line for me... No RD = No FJR for me. I would not own one without the other. But I'm not stupid enough to think that technology is any substitute for heads-up awareness. The RD is just another tool, just like a Morgan Carbtune, Marc Parnes balancer, PC-III, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Auburn]

I had a detector in my car for years, but almost always caught the LEO (plane, chopper, moving unit, parked unit, whoever) visually before the device went off. "Visually" includes traffic behavior, not necessarily sighting the unit, by the way.
When the unit died, I never replaced it, and I've never missed it.

Situational Awareness works way better, and is cheaper.

Gunny. Awareness of your surroundings will help protect for more than jsut traveling fast. And I almost always see them before the V1 goes off. All V1 does is confirm what I see.

 

[Scab]

Pffffft. I don't need no stinkin' radar detector.

I just ride sweep behind JeffAshe.

 

[wfooshee]

I just ride sweep behind JeffAshe.

I wouldn't be able to keep him in sight. I'd ride sweep behind whoever wanted to use the rode during the 30 minutes since he passed. :glare:

 

[Grumpy]

I own two Escort 8500 RD units. One is primary, one is backup. Cager has its own Cobra unit.I also own several performance awards, many of which are less than two years old.

RD units are NOT a license to speed. If you treat it as such you will get nailed.

If you depend on the RD alone to warn you, when you are the "rabbit", you will get nailed. (All my riding buddies are sooo welcomed!)

The whole RD industry is a cat & mouse game as stated above. Yes, the RD saves me some tickets, but it will never save me all of them. If I happen upon an unmarked LEO who waits to hit the button, I'm sooo screwed!

People ask me all the time, "Why don't you buy a RD?" I own three dumbass!!!

"Well, why do you have so many tickets?" Because I ride safe & fast, I typically lead most groups, and my bike looks like it's doing 100 mph when sitting still. Oh, and the last reason... I ride my bike, I don't polish chrome. 36,000 miles last year and not one of them without a RD.

Bottom line for me... No RD = No FJR for me. I would not own one without the other. But I'm not stupid enough to think that technology is any substitute for heads-up awareness. The RD is just another tool, just like a Morgan Carbtune, Marc Parnes balancer, PC-III, etc. etc. etc.

And when you add, and use, a crusie control your tickets/ mile will go way down! Just a suggestion.

jim