Radar detector's against laser

[03HiYoSilver]

While I don't have an answer on why this false alarm happens,

I find if you Display the Frequency on these false alarms, they are generally the 10.xx range(not the range to be concerned with) when I get near some towers and store auto-door openers.

 

[k7lvo]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why radio frequency waves will cause a light receptor to be activated :blink: Unless there is a design issue where radio waves get inside the radar detector and cause the light processing circuit to become confused. If this is the case there is some serious under engineering going on.

How about because radio waves and light waves are all electromagnetic waves? They're actually the same thing with their main difference being that of frequency. Xrays, UV, visible light, IR, microwave, FM, AM....are all on the same electromagnetic spectrum. IIRC, LIDAR is just above the visible light range in the Infrared range and just below the microwave section that I think most radar runs.

I don't know all the physics, but it seems plausible consumer grade electronics could become confused. The "under engineering" could be some choice about containing manufacturing, engineering, or parts cost and maintaining price points in a competitive market. Maybe designing a detector that doesn't get confused add 50 bucks to the process and they made a choice.

It seems to me that any radar detector that is so "under engineered" as to confuse laser with cellular frequencies would probably have difficulty differentiating laser from a 60 watt light bulb...

 

[ponyfool]

I love this re-occuring thread every time I see it.
The short answer to your original question: No. Those pigs will get you every time. Especially the State Troopers. And the ones in Portland are the worst of them all.

Damn skippy!

I used to love it when I'd get a V1 owner going 21+ over the limit in the Terwilliger curves. They would be hopping mad and defiant screaming things like, "There's no way you got me, my detector never went off!"

Little did they know that I was on an overpass shooting them from behind.

Having said that, there are laser detectors that work to give advanced notice, especially on a motorcycle. As a 20 year cop using lidar since 1996, I'll tell you that on a motorcycle, I'll shoot the plate from the rear and the headlights from the front for optimal range. Having said that, it takes a moment or two to stay focused on the relatively small area to get a reading. If you had remote sensors on the plate and under the headlights, you could very likely get enough warning before the officer has obtained a reading. This is especially true if the officer is standing outside the vehicle holding the lidar freehand. I have never been that steady, so I use a brace such as the door frame for stability. Even with said stability, like I said earlier, I have taken a second or two to get a reading.

Without the remote sensors, you really don't stand much of a chance though. Reflected laser from a lidar is very remote and the laser detector needs to have line of sight or direct reflection from the lidar to give advanced warning. When the beam of light from the lidar is only 3' wide at 1000', or 1' wide at 333', the chances of getting that warning are very limited.

 

[lnewlf]

I have an alternative theory regarding false Laser alerts: Voltage.
Before hard wiring the Escort, I powered it through the cigarette lighter, with no false laser alerts. After hard-wiring it, I noticed it would falsely alert laser in the middle of nowhere, when the RPMs rose quickly.

Later, I tried my Beltronics detector. Same results: Cigarette lighter powered = no false laser. Hard-wired = false laser, when revving up.

My non-engineer conclusion is the lighter socket limits voltage to 12v, while the hard-wire method allows 13v+ when RPMs raise, temporarily overloading the detector, manifesting itself as a false alert.

This one is easy-Escort can be set to display vehicle voltage-the closer to the battery the hookup is the higher the voltage will be[voltage drop]. I tapped the outlet in the storage box on the FJR and v was 1/2 to3/4 volt lower than directly off the battery. Also the readout ranged wildly so that it was hard to read when hooked to the outlet, but steady off the battery. Neither hookup seemed to affect the detector tho. Got the same results in my pickup also, dependeing on where I took the power from.

 

[mattster31]

Nice one Jagermeister :clapping: :clapping:

I want an FJR with a Freakin "Laser" attached to it's Freakin head!

 

[Jagermeister]

I love this re-occuring thread every time I see it.
The short answer to your original question: No. Those pigs will get you every time. Especially the State Troopers. And the ones in Portland are the worst of them all.

Having said that, there are laser detectors that work to give advanced notice, especially on a motorcycle. As a 20 year cop using lidar since 1996, I'll tell you that on a motorcycle, I'll shoot the plate from the rear and the headlights from the front for optimal range. Having said that, it takes a moment or two to stay focused on the relatively small area to get a reading. If you had remote sensors on the plate and under the headlights, you could very likely get enough warning before the officer has obtained a reading. This is especially true if the officer is standing outside the vehicle holding the lidar freehand. I have never been that steady, so I use a brace such as the door frame for stability. Even with said stability, like I said earlier, I have taken a second or two to get a reading.

I'm interested in the Officer's take on this:

I have great respect for many of the jobs Police Agencies perform. They keep good people safe, and are intent on upholding the law. IMO however, an exception to these principles involve traffic violations which are not dangerous, but are simply intended to generate revenue. For example, 20 over the posted limit on a FJR is rarely dangerous, yet technically illegal.

Again IMO, this is primarially a revenue generator for local governments, as opposed to a public safety issue. Am I correct?

 

[HotRodZilla]

I'm interested in the Officer's take on this:
I have great respect for many of the jobs Police Agencies perform. They keep good people safe, and are intent on upholding the law. IMO however, an exception to these principles involve traffic violations which are not dangerous, but are simply intended to generate revenue. For example, 20 over the posted limit on a FJR is rarely dangerous, yet technically illegal.

Again IMO, this is primarially a revenue generator for local governments, as opposed to a public safety issue. Am I correct?

This answer is kind of dependent on the agency issuing the citation. For the most part, traffic citations in general are not local revenue generators, and I'll get to that in a minute. Every now and then an agency will issue citations under a city or county ordinance instead of state statute and is able to keep more of the money for themselves, but this can have it's own PITA issues, so it's not done much...at least here. The only agency in NM I know that does this uses the money to fund it's traffic division in its efforts to reduce DWI's and traffic related deaths/injuries. For the most part, agencies writing citations under state statute only make about $.75 per citation; if that. The state obviously gets the money, but it is used to fund courts, traffic safety programs and road maintenance.

Now...About speeding not really being a public safety issue: Please remember that I have not been in the Traffic Divison for about 5 years now. I used to know all these numbers right off the top of my head because I used them all the time in court, but since I do something different now, the actual numbers escape me, but you'll get the idea. THe FBI has tons of statistics on this stuff and your state's traffic safety office should have them too. Another good source is NHTSA...National Highway Traffic Safety Administration: NHTSA WebSite

The number one cause of traffic crashes in the US is excessive speed. The cost of property damage related to traffic crashes in the US is greater than all other types of crime COMBINED...This includes thefts, vandalism, homicide, robberies, white collar crime, computer related fraud, and every other type of crime we have. If I remember right, traffic crashes also cause more injury and death than all other types of crime combined...and as stated before, the number one cause of traffic crashes is.........speed. Speed is also the number one indicator for agressive driving (road rage), which has a nasty tendency to turn into something else.

Part of the problem is perception. You think 20 over the posted limit on a FJR is "rarely dangerous", when in fact, it is almost always dangerous. Except for the rare occasion, speed limits are determined by conditions related to road design, line of sight, roadway population (# of vehicles per hour), location of roadway and cross traffic. Cross traffic and line of sight are two major factors. If the design of the road prevents drivers from seeing far enough ahead of themselves to react to an emergency at 50mph, the speed limit will be reduced to increase reaction time. If there is lots of cross traffic like driveways or county roads intersecting a roadway, the limit has to be reduced to account for the few people that will enter traffic without really paying attention. Remember, the limits are not based on all drivers driving at 100% efficiency. There has to be room for error and again reaction time.

Lets look at it this way. Most traffic investigators figure calculations in Ft/sec as opposed to MPH; so 1mph = 1.4667 ft/sec. Standard reaction time for an ALERT human to react to an emergeny situation is about .75 seconds average. That's the time it takes for your brain to realize something is wrong plus the time it takes for your brain to tell your foot to hit the brake or your arms to turn the wheel. By the time an emergency action is actually put into place, it think 1.5 seconds average have gone by....SO, traveling along at 60mph, you are traveling at 88ft/sec; in 1.5 seconds, you travel 132ft. If you are traveling at 80mph/117.3 ft/sec, you go 176ft in 1.5 secs. That's another 44 ft, or the length of a semi-trailer before you even react and start to slow or move. That does not take into account the increased stopping distance or the space necessary for your machine to manuver. If at 60mph you would have barely missed the emergency, at 80, you would have barreled right through it. How many drivers are really alert and how many are lucky enough to have average reaction times? There is a lot more to it than this, but you get the basic idea...

Then there is this lame assed argument: "Well, if I do wreck the only one I will hurt is me." Those people don't take into account the emergency resources it will take to go clean up their mess. They don't take into account the fact that if they get into a wreck, cops and ambulance personel will have to risk their lives speeding to the scene in an attempt to save a life. They don't think of the lost time other motorists have to endure while the wreck is being investigated and cleaned up, and they absolutely have no idea how much work goes into completing a thorough crash report. They don't take into account the officers that have to make a death notification to their family and how their actions affect other people. They don't take into account how much a person split in half has a negative affect on responders and their family lives. Truth be told, I could give a **** if a 35 year old man crushes himslef on a wall or a tree, but put one child in that car and the perspective changes. You see one dead kid, killed by an adult who was late for work and hauling ***, and you will understand.

Haha...I almost forgot...Your post said, "Upholding the law" and "traffic violations as a whole."

Did you know the best way to reduce the crime rate in an area is to increase traffic enforcement? In areas with heavy traffic enforcement, homicides, rapes, burglaries, robberies and most every other crime decreases. Why? Becasue criminals usually drive to their target location, and the enforcement increases visibility (There was a huge study done on this in LA years ago. Homicides were reduced by something like 75% just by increasing traffic enforcement). Anyone remember how Timothy McVeigh was caught? An Oklahoma state trooper stopped him for not displaying a license plate an hour or two after blowing up the Murrah building. McVeigh had a concealed loaded gun and was arrested for that. He was sitting in a jail cell pending release when investigators realized he was their suspect.

My first shooting came after one of the guys I worked with pulled over a car for 10 over the limit on the freeway. The two occupants had just killed a woman and stole her car. They did not know it was a simple traffic stop; they thought they were caught, so they shot at the officer. One of those guys is dead and the other is serving a life sentence.

I caught Texas's 3rd most wanted for 6mph over the limit. I have recovered stolen cars, stolen guns, missing/runaway kids, and probably close to 4million in cash and drugs due to traffic stops. One time, I was bored and pulled over a kid for a sticker on his windshiled. He had 26grams of Cocaine on him in individual bindles and turned out to be the most prolific Cocaine dealer in one of the local highschools.

We catch more criminals during traffic stops than any other activity we are involved in. The things I have done pale compared to some of the catches my friends have made...and that's just here.

Traffic violations are just like any other crime. We know we are not supposed to do them, and if we do and get caught, there is a consequence. Don't try to blame the system just because you have rationalized your actions to yourself. If the cops don't do traffic enforcement, they might as well stay home.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Hudson]

Hot Rod, that was the best answer I have ever seen as to why speed enforcement is warranted.

I hate getting tickets, but your anwer made me think again about the consequences of my decisions and who s potentially at risk.

I think 10+ mph is routine, however.

 

[k7lvo]

So, what you're saying, Hot Rod, is NOT that "speed kills" but that "EXCESSIVE speed kills." Okay, now we have to define "excessive." If these engineers are so smart, how come, for instance, a California or Washington engineer considers 65-70 mph safe on the SAME road - the only difference being that part of it is on one side of an imaginary, invisible line, from the other part - that an Oregon engineer decides that anything over 55 is dangerous? Also, while speed is an accident contributer, I maintain that it's not the SPEED as much as WHY the driver/rider is going too fast. Isn't DUI part of that factor quite often?

I heard on the news that we are set to break national records for the least amount of traffic deaths in the U.S. since they began keeping statistics. This is NOT less deaths per mile, so get ready for the conclusion that we need $5/gal gas "for the children!." The newsy commented that now, your chance of getting there alive is better than ever, to which I added "that is, if you even START."

 

[jwhite518]

Now...About speeding not really being a public safety issue:

Dang. I want to move to ABQ where they have a cop like HRZ out on the street. Thanks, dude.

 

[Thug]

Hotrod a most interesting perspective and much mojo for your/your mates efforts interesting stats.

I must say though the term "Excessive" and "Speeding" are relative in all aspects and clearly must be measure in a defined space i.e. 160KPH in a built up area clearly dangerous and excessive on a road built for such a speed not so. also consider the road that one day has a posted limit on it the next day the speed is reduced because of government/pressure groups intervention?

 

[HotRodZilla]

I think 10+ mph is routine, however.

You're totally right; 10 over is pretty routine...Most cops, including me, won't write until the magical 11mph over (I know some that won't write until 16 over). If you're in a school zone, an ACTIVE construction zone, or wander into a speed enforcement zero tolerance project, 6 over will get you paper. I'm not speaking for everyone...Just the norms I have seen.

Okay, now we have to define "excessive." If these engineers are so smart, how come, for instance, a California or Washington engineer considers 65-70 mph safe on the SAME road - the only difference being that part of it is on one side of an imaginary, invisible line, from the other part - that an Oregon engineer decides that anything over 55 is dangerous? Also, while speed is an accident contributer, I maintain that it's not the SPEED as much as WHY the driver/rider is going too fast. Isn't DUI part of that factor quite often?

Part of what makes engineers smart is that they are fu#$ing crazy, so I have no idea why the limits go from one speed to the next every 30 feet in some places. Sometimes road studies, sometimes a whim...sometimes a problem with the way the road was originally built that has caused crashes, eventhough you don't see the flaw driving over it at 65.

Speed ALONE is probably not as deadly as statistics would like us to think, but add speed to talking on the phone, yelling at kids, daydreaming, driving angry (a HUGE factor), driving depressed, drunk...all the ******** going on behind the wheel other than driving, and speed becomes a major problem.

Dude, I have no idea what your last paragraph said. :dntknw: Were you drinking? Maybe I'm too tired.

...also consider the road that one day has a posted limit on it the next day the speed is reduced because of government/pressure groups intervention?

For the most part, those days are gone, but sometimes, enough bitching at government can get a speed limit reduced. I have only seen that work a couple of times in the last 13 years. The great part about that is when people call to complain about speeders and reduced limits, the first thing we do is send someone to do speed enforcement. Every single time I am sent to do that, one of first 5 drivers I stop says, "...But, I was the one who called." No ****. They get a ticket every time.

Everywhere we drive, we are bound to run into a speed limit that seems totally arbitrary and chickenshit. We have those here too. For the most part, they guys enforcing those limits try to take that into consideration and be reasonable, but there is always one that tries to enforce the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit of the law. Not much we can do about him, except slow down or accept that we may get a ticket that we can either pay or fight...guess it depends.

 

[Flylooper]

I just stumbled into this exchange and enjoyed HRZ's detailed explanations.

Here in Oregon we have very strict speed limits: basically two - 65 and 55 mph. 65 on interstates outside of urban centers and 55 on virtually everything else, except the usual school/residential stuff.

I have gotten two tickets in the last 35 years of driving...all aboard the FJR. In the car, I peg my cruise control at 8 over the posted and I've never been bothered. In fact, I have actually been passed by state police on the interstate.

Both times I was radared in eastern Oregon on a 2-lane SR, with not a lick of traffic, totally clear day, and road was gently curving. Speed limit was 55mph. I won't go into my speed but it was definitely well over the posted limit. There are places in Oregon, we call it "the high desert" where you don't see another car for a half hour. Speed limit is 55. It's totally nuts.

In my little burg here, we get about $80,000 added to our general fund (I know because I'm involved in local politics) from traffic infractions of all types. We don't have a local PD so we contract with the county for a couple of sheriff's units to patrol the town. It behooves our local sheriff to tag people as we pay the sheriff nearly $300,000/yr for police protection. And so they do. It is nauseating to find them hidden behind some sign waiting for some guy to overstep the law.

I understand exactly what you've been saying, HRZ, but I'm here to tell you it's not as you say everywhere. Where money is involved you can expect people--and governmental agencies--to act accordingly.

I have great respect for LEOs of all kinds. But I think there is more to the story here. Law enforcement is not an absolute, as I'm sure you well know. Speed traps do exist and they exist for reasons other than altruism. City traffic engineers short yellow stoplights (or at least I've read they do by victims of short yellows).

Money DOES come into play in a lot of places.

 

[Grumpy]

I've been driving and riding for over 50 years and have seen quite a few things change over the years. However, there are some things that puzzle me today.

Why is it that some state LEOs seem to have a perpetual hard on? Specifically, TX and NC?

You can see this in the way they drive and their general attitude. I'll give you an example. I'm going down a mountain pass here in Western NC and run into a Trooper? who is driving exactly the speed limit. Well, some poor old lady didn't see him and passed him at maybe 2 mph over the speedlimit. Well, guess what, he pulled her over and gave her a ticket......bad attitude.......noone was safer for his actions. A number of times we've had two troopers drive side-by-side at exactly the speedlimit on the local interstate for miles. Got any idea how many cars and trucks you can stack up with this kind of stunt? Think it changed the way people drove the interstate....think again, it had zero effect.

Many times I've entered TX and within a mile encountered a trooper running radar.........it's an attitude thing. They seem to want to pull you over for a +6 violation. Now, you have to understand that I grew up there and this is a change from the way things were when I grew up. At least the federally mandated guardrails have mostly stopped the "drive south and shoot the northern traffic", then scoot across the median at 60 mph, barely missing the oncoming traffic so he can chase down another +6 mph speeder.......we're all safer!

I have only nice thing to say about most LEOs, but some of these bad apples are hard to stomach. I wonder, how much of this is passed down from state headquarters? Does a revenue stream or quota have an influence?

jim

 

[fjrboomer]

I do not have a radar detector and I generally run about 5 mph over on most roads here in OK. We had two towns that ran speed traps but the State AG filed action against both and they are no longer allowed to patrol the highways through their town for speed violations. I have not received a ticket in over 50 years.

When I enter small towns I always ride at or below the posted speed limit because I know that a good portion of their annual budget is based on the money they get for traffic violations. With the bad economy this will likely only get worse. So a word to the wise, slow down in the towns, especially the small ones. Everyone ride safe and enjoy.

 

[CRMH Eagle]

I have a V1 and love it. I was torn before buying it if it was worth paying extra for the directional arrows. Indeed, it has been a wonderful asset. As some know, the arrows on the V1 indicate which direction the signal is proceeding from. As I travel thru the same places over and over and receive the customary radar warnings, if the arrows and the bogey counter matches with the "normal" count then I don't worry. But if there is a different arrow or bogey count than normal then I know it's not the usual non-police radar but possible a police radar.

As it's already been said, laser is a narrow beam and it doesn't bounce around like other radar. So unless you are directly behind the guy getting tagged by the officer, then you're caught. The V1 does offer front and back laser capability, but when I mount the V1 on my fjr windshield then I block the rear laser capability. An officer can be up on a bridge or entrance ramp and when he/she shoots me with laser from behind I would most likely not receive a warning. Police laser units can read speed in less than a second. But they must be stationary and preferably not shot thru glass. So if you see a cruiser with the window partially/full down, then slow down. The laser antennae on the V1 needs an unobstructed view to operate fully.

To read more about laser:

https://www.valentine1.com/Moreinfo/pdf/V1O...ual_2008-i8.pdf

The V1 is the only detector available to non-military personnel that has both forward AND rear radar & laser antennaes. Valentine also provides V1 owners to upgrade the units to newer technology. Valentine states it's radar is very sensitive.

From what I read the V1 has the best POP protection of any detector. POP mode is a feature on police radar units to defeat detectors by transmitting radar in very short bursts. The V1 has constant POP protection without having to select it on the unit. Valentine also offers concealed display units.

The V1 also allows you to select how sensitive you want the bogeys to be read. It also has a feature that identifies junk radar (detectors from other cars that leak a signal).

In Dec I took the V1 on my trip from CO to AL. Just like Valentine promises, the V1 is VERY sensitive to constant police radar and displays the warning in plenty of time. Of course instant-on radar and laser are a different story.

After having the V1 for 6 months I wouldn't go to any other detector. The arrows are a huge asset along with it's rear antennae.

If your cable/satellite provide offer the TruTV channel then watch the show "Speeders." The show is a camera crew tagging along with police officers across the country as they catch drivers speeding. I've learned a lot watching the show on how police officers use laser, how they follow drivers from behind and give them a ticket without using radar, how they decide to give a ticket or warning, how they decide which driver in traffic gets pulled over, etc. Awhile back I was pulled over by an officer who was moving and didn't use radar. My attorney told me that this method of ticketing speeders is held up in court (the violation was later dropped but that's a whole 'nother story).

If you are considering to purchase a V1, I found the best price to be directly from Valentine. They shipped within a day and it was delivered on time as promised. They told me if I didn't like it to return it within 30 days for full refund no questions asked.

 

[2ndFJR]

Lately I have been seeing more and more CHP officers in Northern California standing next to their cars aiming there guns at traffic. The ones that I have seen were standing on the shoulder of the freeway, with heavy traffic passing. Really doesn't seem to be too safe for the officer.

I recently received the following story by email, not sure if it really happened, but it made me laugh.

Top This One For A Speeding Ticket

Two California Highway Patrol Officers were conducting speeding enforcement on I-15, just north of the Marine Corps Air Station at Miramar One of the officers was using a hand held radar device to check speeding vehicles approaching the crest of a hill. The officers were suddenly surprised when the radar gun began reading 300 miles per hour. The officer attempted to reset the radar gun, but it would not reset and then turned off.

Just then a deafening roar over the treetops revealed that the radar had in fact locked on to a USMC F/A-18 Hornet (Northrop Grumman aircraft) which was engaged in a low flying exercise near the location.

Back at the CHP Headquarters the Patrol Captain fired off a complaint to the USMC Base Commander. The reply came back in true USMC style:

~ ~ ~

Thank you for your letter. We can now complete the file on this incident.

You may be interested to know that the tactical computer in the Hornet had detected the presence of, and subsequently locked on to your hostile radar equipment and automatically sent a jamming signal back to it, which is why it shut down.

Furthermore, an Air-to-Ground missile aboard the fully armed aircraft had also automatically locked on to your equipment location.

Fortunately, the Marine Pilot flying the Hornet recognized the situation for what i t was, quickly responded to the missile system alert status and was able to override the automated defense system before the missile was launched to destroy the hostile radar position.

The pilot also suggests you cover your mouths when cussing at them, since the video systems on these jets are very high tech.

Sergeant Johnson, the officer holding the radar gun, should get his dentist to check his left rear molar. It appears the filling is loose. Also, the snap is broken on his holster.

Thank you for your concern.

Semper Fi

 

[ShawnKing]

I recently received the following story by email, not sure if it really happened, but it made me laugh.

It's an Urban Legend but still funny.

 

[Pioneer007]

A police laser emits a highly focused beam of invisible light, in the near infrared region of light, that is centered at 904nm of wavelength and is only about 22 inches (56cm) in diameter at 1000 feet (300m).

Plagiarism courtesy of NASA

Infrared light lies between the visible and microwave portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. Infrared light has a range of wavelengths, just like visible light has wavelengths that range from red light to violet. "Near infrared" light is closest in wavelength to visible light and "far infrared" is closer to the microwave region of the electromagnetic spectrum. The longer, far infrared wavelengths are about the size of a pin head and the shorter, near infrared ones are the size of cells, or are microscopic.