Radio choice for Leader and Sweep - wireless

[SacramentoMike]

Another tip is to try to make sure the sweep guy has something HiViz, so you'll know looking back when the group is all there.

Or have the sweep guy get himself a set of Clearwater Kristas--talk about "HiViz!" Seriously, I usually take sweep for that reason, and if the bike's in sight at all, you know it's me.

Completely agree on the size of the pack. Ten is more than a full group. Mostly for the sake of other drivers and for the sake of the motorcycling community not pissing off the non-motorcyclists.

Cells are fine if they have a signal, but who can hear a cell phone ringing in his pocket while riding--or feel it vibrating? In other words, fairly useless. I just did a volunteer stint this weekend where we had 26 bikes doing "Moto Safety" duty for a very large group of walkers--a fundraising march. We were all given sort of "cop style" walkie-talkies with the speaker on a coiled wire clipped near your head. We were asked not to lose them as they cost $500 each. They were very easy to hear while riding (though we were at less than highways speed). You did need to press the button to talk, but they seemed to fill your needs for wirelessness and range.

 

[leedavis]

For FRS/GMRS several of us that ride together use this passive headset with a Motorola Talkabout connector and the Motorola 350R radio which has sufficient output volume to power a passive headset. It's a simple, inexpensive and effective solution. The more people in your group that have it the better and everyone can afford it. It's not wireless but as soon as you go there you up the ante and complication by factors.

 

[TomInPA]

I use a Midland TK3101 with an Autocom...but the Autocom unit is not the only way to get the radio into the headset. My friend Jamie used a TK3101 with a battery eliminator and wired (cheap Motocom) headset with a PTT and kept the whole thing in his tank bag during a 7500 mile trip. He may eventually upgrade to a better headset, but in its simplest form, this works on something as small and naked as a Sportster.

We were able to communicate well over 2 miles when he was caught in traffic in Jackson Wy, while I was already on the pass. GMRS radios are the least expensive and most reliable bike-to-bike communicators, and can be upgraded with things like better power (2-watt tranceivers) and external antennas. I would only recommend an Autocom if you need to also have GPS, Radar, rider/passenger comm, and other audio mixed with the bike to bike.

I have used CB, and it is very limited in range by terrain and very noisy and subject to RF problems on a bike. They can be made to work, but tend to be expensive at the upper end.

 

[CAJW]

Alrighty...I just figured out how to use the MultiQuote buttons..... My apologies in advance for all of these questions. I've used a number of integrated bluetooth headsets (Cardo, Sena, etc), but have no familiarity with the other radios, and what is needed to stitch it all together.

I have experience with all the above. Hands down, go Autocom with a FRS/GMRS such as a Kenwood will meet all your requirements, except the wireless wish. Good luck with that, I've been searching for that with no luck as have many others.

Can you spec out what components would be used to build an Autocom and Kenwood FRS/GMRS setup for each bike? Bear in mind, some of the bikes are smaller..the person who most often is sweep rides a Triumph Bonny.

Like others have posted, an Autocom is not "required" to get a radio into your helmet, but if you're like most others, music, GPS, cell phone and/or a Radar Detector at some point will be desired so why not start with a great system to base your inevitable add on items with? FRS/GMRS radios are available in many different makes, models, but if you contact these guys Autocom direct, they can let you know what would be required for a basic system and which leads they have that will match up to a particular 2 way radio model. If your buddy on the Bonny doesn't have under seat room, many here have put their Autocom set up in a tank bag which makes it portable for those who have more than one bike they need comml on. The experience I had with both the Collett and Chatterbox was less than good and the Autocom is a true VOX system that really works. You can set up your system with a switchable PTT switch so you can set an open mic if desired for truly hands free transmissions. The guys at Autocom would be able to help with this part of the set up as well. Good luck.

 

[Aasland]

Cells are fine if they have a signal, but who can hear a cell phone ringing in his pocket while riding--or feel it vibrating? In other words, fairly useless.

That's what headsets and Zumo's are for. When my phone rings, I look at the Zumo to see who it is, push a button, and blabber away. And as others have pointed out, phones are the backups. CB/FRS/BT is the first choice.

Having had a JMCB, when in a large group it is very nice to be able to broadcast to all listeners. This is something that the BT systems still can't do and that makes it less suitable for large groups ... especially when there are limits to how many can pair, and the pairing has to be done ahead of time (and it is a PITA). But, to the credit of the BT systems, they have enough range for small groups, are super easy to install, don't cost a lot, are not tied to the bikes, are crystal-clear and don't pick up ignition coil interference or other static.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

Cells are fine if they have a signal, but who can hear a cell phone ringing in his pocket while riding--or feel it vibrating? In other words, fairly useless.

That's what headsets and Zumo's are for. When my phone rings, I look at the Zumo to see who it is, push a button, and blabber away. And as others have pointed out, phones are the backups. CB/FRS/BT is the first choice.

Having had a JMCB, when in a large group it is very nice to be able to broadcast to all listeners. This is something that the BT systems still can't do and that makes it less suitable for large groups ... especially when there are limits to how many can pair, and the pairing has to be done ahead of time (and it is a PITA). But, to the credit of the BT systems, they have enough range for small groups, are super easy to install, don't cost a lot, are not tied to the bikes, are crystal-clear and don't pick up ignition coil interference or other static.

+1 Aasland..!!

 

[willabbott]

I'm probably a little late to the conversation...

I'm a licensed HAM radio operator, and so have some experience with radios.

First off, Antenna, Antenna, Antenna... in radios, Antennas are the single most important peice of equipment... anything that can take an external antenna will be far superior to the little "rubber duck" type antennas found on hand held radios... and bigger IS better (generally speaking). Also getting the antenn high up, and away from obstructions (such as a rider) helps it radiate and extends the range. For example, I can take a radio with .1 watts with an external antenna and cover 2-5miles in an urban setting with a good external antenna... but take a 5w radio with a built in antenna and try and use it inside the car, you're lucky to get a couple miles out of it...

FRS might work, but not likely especially anywhere not line of sight (on a freeway straight line it might pull it off, in twisties, etc, forget it... you're only dealing with <1/2 a watt (effective radiated power out the antenna must be less than .5w, which means offten you aren't getting even that much)

GMRS is far better than FRS with a maximum allowed power of 5W for a portable/handheld radio, and 50W for a mobile... HOWEVER!!! GMRS IS a licensed service, and REQUIRES a license to operate on (this is Federal Law BTW!). yes GMRS radios are sold over the shelf, I Highly doubt any are actually 5w, and the main reason is GMRS has some shared channels with FRS... if you ever read the fine print in the book, you'll see it says you have to have a license for the GMRS channels.

CB is good, it's old technology, but works well... 5-10miles should be easily doable, CB your max is 5w at the radio, and you can put different antennas on... CB's effectively radiate more power out the antenna than an FRS/GMRS due to the mode they use (AM) With some CB's you can also run Side Band, and will get even greater range than in AM mode.

Option 4 (one most people don't know about) MURS (Multi-Use Radio Service) is a fairly new radio service, it was formerly a "business band" it runs in the 150mhz range (better range than the 400mhz range of the FRS/GMRS) allows a full 2W and you can use external antennas (if I remember correctly)... it is also a license FREE service like FRS/CB.

There are fancier options as well... you could both get your HAM radio licenses (fairly easy) and get 2M radios (144mhz) and run 5w on hand helds, with external antennas, or 50w on mobiles (there are motorcycle mobiles available now) you could also run a power amp on the portable and boost the power upto 50w (or higher!). in FM with a small antenna and a 5W radio you will easily reach beyond 10miles except in the worst of terrain. We constatnly talk 10-20miles to guys on handheld radios with a simple magnent mount antenna on the top of thier car. There are also a lot more frequencies available, you could go with lower frequencies for even more range, but the antennas get much larger...

My eventual long term for my bike is to get my HAM radio on it, even if it's in a tank bag that is only used occasionally. The versatility and range is just too good!

Take it for what it's worth... in good coverage the Cell will give the ultimate range, but you are reliant upon cell site coverage... you could depending on your phone do a bike mounted antenna or buy a cell phone repeater and antenna also to extend the range of the cell...

 

[Mihalis fjr]

I'm probably a little late to the conversation...

I'm a licensed HAM radio operator, and so have some experience with radios.

First off, Antenna, Antenna, Antenna... in radios, Antennas are the single most important peice of equipment... anything that can take an external antenna will be far superior to the little "rubber duck" type antennas found on hand held radios... and bigger IS better (generally speaking). Also getting the antenn high up, and away from obstructions (such as a rider) helps it radiate and extends the range. For example, I can take a radio with .1 watts with an external antenna and cover 2-5miles in an urban setting with a good external antenna... but take a 5w radio with a built in antenna and try and use it inside the car, you're lucky to get a couple miles out of it...

FRS might work, but not likely especially anywhere not line of sight (on a freeway straight line it might pull it off, in twisties, etc, forget it... you're only dealing with <1/2 a watt (effective radiated power out the antenna must be less than .5w, which means offten you aren't getting even that much)

GMRS is far better than FRS with a maximum allowed power of 5W for a portable/handheld radio, and 50W for a mobile... HOWEVER!!! GMRS IS a licensed service, and REQUIRES a license to operate on (this is Federal Law BTW!). yes GMRS radios are sold over the shelf, I Highly doubt any are actually 5w, and the main reason is GMRS has some shared channels with FRS... if you ever read the fine print in the book, you'll see it says you have to have a license for the GMRS channels.

CB is good, it's old technology, but works well... 5-10miles should be easily doable, CB your max is 5w at the radio, and you can put different antennas on... CB's effectively radiate more power out the antenna than an FRS/GMRS due to the mode they use (AM) With some CB's you can also run Side Band, and will get even greater range than in AM mode.

Option 4 (one most people don't know about) MURS (Multi-Use Radio Service) is a fairly new radio service, it was formerly a "business band" it runs in the 150mhz range (better range than the 400mhz range of the FRS/GMRS) allows a full 2W and you can use external antennas (if I remember correctly)... it is also a license FREE service like FRS/CB.

There are fancier options as well... you could both get your HAM radio licenses (fairly easy) and get 2M radios (144mhz) and run 5w on hand helds, with external antennas, or 50w on mobiles (there are motorcycle mobiles available now) you could also run a power amp on the portable and boost the power upto 50w (or higher!). in FM with a small antenna and a 5W radio you will easily reach beyond 10miles except in the worst of terrain. We constatnly talk 10-20miles to guys on handheld radios with a simple magnent mount antenna on the top of thier car. There are also a lot more frequencies available, you could go with lower frequencies for even more range, but the antennas get much larger...

My eventual long term for my bike is to get my HAM radio on it, even if it's in a tank bag that is only used occasionally. The versatility and range is just too good!

Take it for what it's worth... in good coverage the Cell will give the ultimate range, but you are reliant upon cell site coverage... you could depending on your phone do a bike mounted antenna or buy a cell phone repeater and antenna also to extend the range of the cell...

And +1 to willabbott!I am a radio operator too from 30 years ago...

 

[FB1]

Ow. My head hurts. So much info.

So, one option is to get a Kenwood or Midland GMRS radio (or CB) and use one of those simple plug in headsets Lee Davis suggested. Or connect one of those Kenwood or Midland radios to a SENA SR10, mount a PTT button somewhere within easy reach, and listen/talk through any bluetooth headset. Obviously an external antenna will help, but I have to ask our leader/sweep if that is an option for them. Could alternately use an Autocom in lieu of Sena SR10 to handle the connectivity, as far as I can tell.

Are there any suggestions for particular GMRS radio models that are reliable and have the option for an external antenna? Any to steer clear of? I've heard that the Kenwood Protalk XLS works well.

 

[ahchiu]

I have an Autocom AVI and I use the Kenwood TK3101 UHF GMRS and I also have a Midland CB that I can switch out with the Kenwood, stay clear of the blister pack radios only .5 watts, e-bay has lots of options.

 

[Fred W]

Actually, any FRS or combination FRS/GMRS radio will only transmit at 1/2 watt when tuned to an FRS channel. Most any GMRS capable radios (even the blister packs) will xmit at a higher power when operated on the GMRS frequencies (usually 5 watts), for which you are supposed to have a license, but most casual users do not.

The primary distance limitation of FRS/GMRS is that the operating frequency is UHF (462 & 467 Mhz). UHF is considered "line of site" only as it does not bend around the earth's curvature and will not "skip" off the ionosphere. Conversely, at 27 Mhz, HF Citizens Band radio will carry considerably further at similar power levels (4 watts).

As for the licensing & legality issue, CB used to require a license too, until the big CB boom in the 1970's. There were just too many unlicensed operators to try to enforce the issue, so the FCC just gave up and declared it open. One might argue that the same thing was about to happen to GMRS, until cell phones became prevalent. It is fairly safe to operate a GMRS radio without a license, so long as you maintain good radio discipline and don't break any (other) on air laws, in which case they would have some real motivation to track you down.

 

[leedavis]

Ow. My head hurts. So much info.

So, one option is to get a Kenwood or Midland GMRS radio (or CB) and use one of those simple plug in headsets Lee Davis suggested.

The current Midland consumer GMRS radios, since they came out with the 900 series, now 1000, do not have enough output to power a passive motorcycle headset. That's why I recommended the Motorola 350R. It does. Also, the reason I recommended the headset I did is because it has good noise cancelling properties. Many inexpensive headsets are useless at highway speeds because they are swamped by wind noise.

 

[Patriot]

call J&M customer service...they can provide all that, but it will cost

range is all about the antenna system

my J&M is wired and I like it that way...I see little advantage to wireless and the lower fidelity even these days on the bleeding edge

no grounded long firestik would be my recommendation on antenna

CB's are the most common communication...Harleys and Goldwings all use them as OEM on their big bikes

I've led PGR escorts of 300 bikes with me in lead, a mid man, and sweep with our CB's with no issues

5 miles of bikes with mine doing 2.5 mile range

Granted, these are police escorted.

For personnal, fun rides...15 at most per group...twisty rides like at FJR Gatherings I lead, total 6 at most.

I'm not familiar with GMRS, FRS and how they differ from CB. I've not used CB since the early 80's, so no doubt things have changed. Can you possibly spec out what I'd need to buy for each bike, in terms of radio, antenna, including the J&M headsets?

CB: my J&M CB2003 unit has worked perfectly for 7 yrs moved between 3 bikes the feej being the 3rd. You need to call J&M customer service/tech service and talk with them about choices which are many. Over the years they have sold a number of levels/priced headsets and your helmet, riding conditions, and purpose matter. There are bluetooth options for cordless, there are multiple (expensive) harnesses to plug in zumos and/or radar detectors. I have the basic JMCB2003 dual which includes passenger hookup/intercom with the one 3mm/1/8" input plug mainly for music, but I just an "amplirider" which mixes 3 outputs (zumo, radar detector, mp3/ipod) to the 1 J&M input. And I went with the J&M 4' license plate antenna system, but hear the firestik antenna is superior.

so call J&M and discuss with them, cause it's complicated depending on what you want and what you are willing to spend...be prepared to spend like $1000 for a complete system: head unit, antenna system, 2 headsets with upper and lower cords, etc

don't purchase from J&M...I like Clay Radio.com and Sierra Electronics.com, but these days there are even more J&M mail order suppliers.

J&M stands by their products, has excellent customer service, and even the owner/Prez advertises his email address and answers all emails withing 24 hrs. I had a knob fall off and he sent me one gratus. My daughter closed my garage door and caught my 4' antenna in the metal arms that unlocked it, breaking off the antenna. John Lazzeroni the Prez sent me a free new one just asking me to email him a pic of the broken part.

google any of these companies for contact info

you may contact me if you wish via email: mholiver at patriotguard dot org and I'd even talk on the phone after that.

check out my signature clicky on pics of my bike and check out the CB set on flickr.

ride safe,

Mike in Nawlins'

 

[FB1]

All great info. Thanks, Patriot...the J&M sounds good, but I'd be surprised if our leader/sweep will pop for $1,000 each. Still, it sounds like one of the better performing options. At $300 per bike, the Chatterbox X1 Slim sure starts to look attractive...if only it worked halfway decently. Also, Lee Davis thanks for the reminder about the audio power output of the radios. That's certainly the least expensive route to get this done, if they are willing to be wired.

Lots of stuff to discuss at our Bike Night Thursday at the BBQ place....over a nice, cold Olde Mecklenburg Copper Ale.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Speaking of upping the ante, the Starcom or Autocoms aren't cheap... I purchased a current model Autocom unit from a member here for a good deal, and it will take their new bluetooth module (extra $180) which will pair to a wireless headset such as Sena or Scala, etc. I am still in the throes of putting this all together, but will likely go with a good FRS/GMRS & PTT switch radio with the Autocom, along with Zumo 550/mp3/phone.