Re-waterproofing riding gear

[Fred W]

Actually, Nobody got this one right...

The First Gear Kilimanjaro, like all of the other First Gear Products, was never waterproof in the outside wear layer (cordura nylon or whatever). In a steady rain the outer layer always gets soaked (eventually) and the only thing that keeps you dry inside is the separate waterproof membrane that resides between the outer shell and inner liner. That's why they do not have nor need waterproof zippers, etc.

When you wash one of these garments with NikWax or clean it and spray it down with CampDry or some other waterproofing agent, all you are doing is making the outer layer water resistant and therefore less apt to absorb the water right away. You cannot really waterproof it.

The reason that you pay that big samoleans on Gore Tex garments is that their system has the waterproof membrane mechanically bonded to the back side of the outer wear layer in a proprietary process that results in much better waterproofing, and it is also micro-porous to allow sweat vapor to escape, but water not come in (it must be magic cause it costs like it is). The other intermediate membranes claim to have micro-porous membranes, but they do not seem to work as well, for what ever reason.

This also means that when you open the vents on most of these garments that have the intermediate membrane layer, you do not get cooling air directly to your hot and sweaty skin. Goretex stuff usually will, as does the Olympia touring gear, which is why I selected it over other vendors. But that also requires having the more expensive waterproof zippers or else they'll just leak there at the first sprinkle.

So yeah, go ahead and treat the outer layer, but it won't make it waterproof. If that intermediate membrane has been broached you're gonna get wet in the next frog strangler.

 

[Bungie]

Getting wet is much easier to deal with if you just accept it and deal with it.

The only question is how wet are you willing to get.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Getting wet is much easier to deal with if you just accept it and deal with it.
The only question is how wet are you willing to get.

I'm not willing to get too wet when it is 36F degrees out. (6" of October rain in Missouri on the way to the AAD)

 

[Bungie]

Getting wet is much easier to deal with if you just accept it and deal with it.
The only question is how wet are you willing to get.

I'm not willing to get too wet when it is 36F degrees out. (6" of October rain in Missouri on the way to the AAD)

I've completely given up trying to keep my hands dry. My body is pretty easy to keep dry. Remember at the Ramble.. when everybody bugged out on Sunday. Only the Cdns stayed behind to ride in that all day frog-choker. The only thing wet were my hands and feet at the end of the day. I was shocked that my feet were wet. Side Way-Rains were no match for that downpour.

Anyway, I've always said, rain is one thing, cold is another, but rain + cold is a bitch - last years EOM I left Sudbury at 36F and steady rain that turned into snow just south of Sudbury. Not fun. But, 48hrs later it was 80F in the NC mountains. Totally worth it.

 

[frankenfeejeer]

Actually, Nobody got this one right...
The First Gear Kilimanjaro, like all of the other First Gear Products, was never waterproof in the outside wear layer (cordura nylon or whatever). In a steady rain the outer layer always gets soaked (eventually) and the only thing that keeps you dry inside is the separate waterproof membrane that resides between the outer shell and inner liner. That's why they do not have nor need waterproof zippers, etc.

When you wash one of these garments with NikWax or clean it and spray it down with CampDry or some other waterproofing agent, all you are doing is making the outer layer water resistant and therefore less apt to absorb the water right away. You cannot really waterproof it.

The reason that you pay that big samoleans on Gore Tex garments is that their system has the waterproof membrane mechanically bonded to the back side of the outer wear layer in a proprietary process that results in much better waterproofing, and it is also micro-porous to allow sweat vapor to escape, but water not come in (it must be magic cause it costs like it is). The other intermediate membranes claim to have micro-porous membranes, but they do not seem to work as well, for what ever reason.

This also means that when you open the vents on most of these garments that have the intermediate membrane layer, you do not get cooling air directly to your hot and sweaty skin. Goretex stuff usually will, as does the Olympia touring gear, which is why I selected it over other vendors. But that also requires having the more expensive waterproof zippers or else they'll just leak there at the first sprinkle.

So yeah, go ahead and treat the outer layer, but it won't make it waterproof. If that intermediate membrane has been broached you're gonna get wet in the next frog strangler.

Actually, actually...

I have this same jacket, and this is Cut and Paste from their website:

The Flagship jacket in the Firstgear line, often imitated and never duplicated, it's the jacket that others aspire to be. If you could only have one jacket - this is it. With its exceptional fit and attention to detail the Kilimanjaro is comfortable in any weather, any season, anywhere, anytime. Battle-tested to the ends of the earth - and now in its third decade - it keeps you warm when it's cold, cool when it's hot and dry when it's wet. It's the multi-tool of motorcycle outerwear. Kilimanjaro, gear you can depend on.

• Hypertex™ waterproof and breathable 400-denier nylon for weather and abrasion resistance........

IOW-Waterproof on the outside.

As far as gloves are concerned, I've found these work well even in the long, gray, dreary, wet, PNW winters:

They require a respray of Scotch Guard every 60 days or so, but the fact that they tuck under the jacket keeps the water running down by sleeves from filling my gloves

 

[900gc]

Getting wet is much easier to deal with if you just accept it and deal with it.
The only question is how wet are you willing to get.

I'm not willing to get too wet when it is 36F degrees out. (6" of October rain in Missouri on the way to the AAD)

I've completely given up trying to keep my hands dry. My body is pretty easy to keep dry. Remember at the Ramble.. when everybody bugged out on Sunday. Only the Cdns stayed behind to ride in that all day frog-choker. The only thing wet were my hands and feet at the end of the day. I was shocked that my feet were wet. Side Way-Rains were no match for that downpour.

Anyway, I've always said, rain is one thing, cold is another, but rain + cold is a bitch - last years EOM I left Sudbury at 36F and steady rain that turned into snow just south of Sudbury. Not fun. But, 48hrs later it was 80F in the NC mountains. Totally worth it.

I use neoprene diving gloves when I know I'll be getting soaked. Warm, grippy on the hand grips and absolutely waterproof. Only about $35 too.

 

[Fred W]

Actually, Nobody got this one right...
The First Gear Kilimanjaro, like all of the other First Gear Products, was never waterproof in the outside wear layer (cordura nylon or whatever). In a steady rain the outer layer always gets soaked (eventually) and the only thing that keeps you dry inside is the separate waterproof membrane that resides between the outer shell and inner liner. That's why they do not have nor need waterproof zippers, etc.

When you wash one of these garments with NikWax or clean it and spray it down with CampDry or some other waterproofing agent, all you are doing is making the outer layer water resistant and therefore less apt to absorb the water right away. You cannot really waterproof it.

The reason that you pay that big samoleans on Gore Tex garments is that their system has the waterproof membrane mechanically bonded to the back side of the outer wear layer in a proprietary process that results in much better waterproofing, and it is also micro-porous to allow sweat vapor to escape, but water not come in (it must be magic cause it costs like it is). The other intermediate membranes claim to have micro-porous membranes, but they do not seem to work as well, for what ever reason.

This also means that when you open the vents on most of these garments that have the intermediate membrane layer, you do not get cooling air directly to your hot and sweaty skin. Goretex stuff usually will, as does the Olympia touring gear, which is why I selected it over other vendors. But that also requires having the more expensive waterproof zippers or else they'll just leak there at the first sprinkle.

So yeah, go ahead and treat the outer layer, but it won't make it waterproof. If that intermediate membrane has been broached you're gonna get wet in the next frog strangler.

Actually, actually...

I have this same jacket, and this is Cut and Paste from their website:

The Flagship jacket in the Firstgear line, often imitated and never duplicated, it's the jacket that others aspire to be. If you could only have one jacket - this is it. With its exceptional fit and attention to detail the Kilimanjaro is comfortable in any weather, any season, anywhere, anytime. Battle-tested to the ends of the earth - and now in its third decade - it keeps you warm when it's cold, cool when it's hot and dry when it's wet. It's the multi-tool of motorcycle outerwear. Kilimanjaro, gear you can depend on.

• Hypertex™ waterproof and breathable 400-denier nylon for weather and abrasion resistance........

IOW-Waterproof on the outside.

It appears that First Gear has improved the waterproofing design on the Kilimanjaro since I had one. Hypertex is a sandwiched (attached to the outer shell) membrane similar to GoreTex.

 

[Donal]

Actually, Nobody got this one right...
The First Gear Kilimanjaro, like all of the other First Gear Products, was never waterproof in the outside wear layer (cordura nylon or whatever). In a steady rain the outer layer always gets soaked (eventually) and the only thing that keeps you dry inside is the separate waterproof membrane that resides between the outer shell and inner liner. That's why they do not have nor need waterproof zippers, etc.

When you wash one of these garments with NikWax or clean it and spray it down with CampDry or some other waterproofing agent, all you are doing is making the outer layer water resistant and therefore less apt to absorb the water right away. You cannot really waterproof it.

The reason that you pay that big samoleans on Gore Tex garments is that their system has the waterproof membrane mechanically bonded to the back side of the outer wear layer in a proprietary process that results in much better waterproofing, and it is also micro-porous to allow sweat vapor to escape, but water not come in (it must be magic cause it costs like it is). The other intermediate membranes claim to have micro-porous membranes, but they do not seem to work as well, for what ever reason.

This also means that when you open the vents on most of these garments that have the intermediate membrane layer, you do not get cooling air directly to your hot and sweaty skin. Goretex stuff usually will, as does the Olympia touring gear, which is why I selected it over other vendors. But that also requires having the more expensive waterproof zippers or else they'll just leak there at the first sprinkle.

So yeah, go ahead and treat the outer layer, but it won't make it waterproof. If that intermediate membrane has been broached you're gonna get wet in the next frog strangler.

Actually, actually...

I have this same jacket, and this is Cut and Paste from their website:

The Flagship jacket in the Firstgear line, often imitated and never duplicated, it's the jacket that others aspire to be. If you could only have one jacket - this is it. With its exceptional fit and attention to detail the Kilimanjaro is comfortable in any weather, any season, anywhere, anytime. Battle-tested to the ends of the earth - and now in its third decade - it keeps you warm when it's cold, cool when it's hot and dry when it's wet. It's the multi-tool of motorcycle outerwear. Kilimanjaro, gear you can depend on.

• Hypertex™ waterproof and breathable 400-denier nylon for weather and abrasion resistance........

IOW-Waterproof on the outside.

It appears that First Gear has improved the waterproofing design on the Kilimanjaro since I had one. Hypertex is a sandwiched (attached to the outer shell) membrane similar to GoreTex.

That is why I prefer to use the 'wash-in' rather than the 'spray-on' treatments. If you wash it in, it gets to the parts that need it............. YMMV

 

[PhilJet09]

Getting wet is much easier to deal with if you just accept it and deal with it.
The only question is how wet are you willing to get.

I'm not willing to get too wet when it is 36F degrees out. (6" of October rain in Missouri on the way to the AAD)

I've completely given up trying to keep my hands dry. My body is pretty easy to keep dry. Remember at the Ramble.. when everybody bugged out on Sunday. Only the Cdns stayed behind to ride in that all day frog-choker. The only thing wet were my hands and feet at the end of the day. I was shocked that my feet were wet. Side Way-Rains were no match for that downpour.

Anyway, I've always said, rain is one thing, cold is another, but rain + cold is a bitch - last years EOM I left Sudbury at 36F and steady rain that turned into snow just south of Sudbury. Not fun. But, 48hrs later it was 80F in the NC mountains. Totally worth it.

I keep a set of standard jersey work gloves and nitrile gloves to stretch over them under my seat. These are totally waterproof, cheap and disposable and great for those miserable all-day soakers. The Jerseys give enough of an insulating barrier to keep your hands from getting cold and clammy under the nitrile gloves. A Harley buddy of mine showed me this trick about half way through a non-stop ride from Portland, ME home in cold rain all day. I didn't know whether to hug him or kick his butt for not educating me sooner.

 

[cyclemed]

Fred

Thanks for the info. So what would breach the membrane or does it just wear out over years and mileage. Seemed pretty sudden going from bone dry to soaking wet.

Thanks

 

[Fred W]

The waterproof membrane, whether it is mechanically bonded to the outer wear layer (like GoreTex or its clones) or is an independent layer between the outer jacket and liner, like with most less expensive gear, flexes as you use the garment and can eventually develop cracks or abrasions that allow the membrane to leak.

Here' a picture of a GoreTex jacket that I had that had some leaks around the collar:

You can clearly see the three layers of the GoreTex sandwiched construction in the above photo. The outer most yellow layer is Cordura Nylon. It is made water resistant by spray or wash-in waterporoofing agents. This is actually pretty important because, if the outer layer becomes water soaked the waterproof membrane will no longer be able to breathe vapor outward. The Gray innermost layer that you see is a tafetta lining that is just there to protect the the white GoreTex membrane from casual abrasion and so your skin doesn't touch the GoreTex membrane itself which would feel kind of clammy. In this case the tension and abrasion from the jacket's backpad wore through dramatically, but even small cracks would result in the garment leaking.

The GoreTex stuff can be patched from the inside and the seams resealed.

The independent layered jackets you are SOL and either have to wear rain gear over them or buy new.

 

[Shuey]

FWIW. I've put 200K plus miles on my Aerostich that recently bit the dust, but never had any leakage. I really LIKE riding in the rain!

It was a two piece and I washed the jacket and pants separately with our regular detergent, using only about 1/2 what I use for a normal load of clothes. Throwing in a towel or two improves the cleaning ( no, I don't know why it helps).

Once clean, I just hang everything up in the garage on a swivel hanger from the end of the opener track (no dryer time) for a day or two until completely dry then use Scotch Guard Fabric and Upholstery Protector to re-waterproof everything. It's available in most grocery and hardware stores (don't get the one for carpet). I use one can for the jacket and another for the pants. Then . . . let dry another day.

When rain looms ahead, i just snug up the collar and ride on. No water gets in and the suit breaths just fine.

Shuey