Rear ABS Not Working ABS Light Not Coming On

[OGAL]

Hello,

This is a disconcerting problem. My bike is a 2005. The rear ABS is not working and the ABS error light is not coming on to indicate an error. The light comes on with the other on start-up so it works. A very brave fellow tested the front wheel and the ABS worked and cycled fine. On rainy day rides, I regularly test the ABS using the rear wheel (I thought if the rear worked then the system was fine)last time I did this was probably in January and it worked.

A few questions:

What do think is causing the rear abs to fail? If the front abs works, the pump & computer would seem to be in working order? A sensor in the back maybe?

About the error light, I'm really concerned that the ABS system is not working correctly and the warning system is a failure as well? It's enough to make me lose sleep.

Has anyone else encountered or heard of this problem?

Thanks for your help.

 

[ionbeam]

Read this. If you do have a problem you must have the FSM with the ABS section, or it is dealer time.

Usually your symptoms indicate a frozen spool valve in the Metering Block. This is non-repairable according to the FSM. A new Metering Block is ~$1k. Several people have had frozen spool valves.

Good luck! Hope it is something simple.

 

[HYCLE]

I have the same symptoms with my 2005 and haven't taken the time to diagnose it. I have just adapted my pedal stomping to a modulated application.

If I ever get around to testing it, I will post my results.

 

[dcarver]

Wow, 1k is alot of dough.

 

[OGAL]

Read this. If you do have a problem you must have the FSM with the ABS section, or it is dealer time.

Usually your symptoms indicate a frozen spool valve in the Metering Block. This is non-repairable according to the FSM. A new Metering Block is ~$1k. Several people have had frozen spool valves.

Good luck! Hope it is something simple.

Thanks for your reply, great information. Any chance, a used working metering block can be purchased anywhere if this is the problem?

 

[ionbeam]

...Any chance, a used working metering block can be purchased anywhere if this is the problem?

You could try a motorcycle salvage company. Many salvage companies use a network that lets them search around the country for parts. It is an easy one point contact for you and they check lots of other companies for you. If it comes down to this, LMK because I have used them for some seriously big and expensive parts and there are some things you need to do to improve your odds of a good outcome.

Before you worry about deciding to live with a dead ABS circuit or other big buck solutions, test your ABS first. One of the ABS tests runs the ABS pump and hammers the spool valves, perhaps this alone could free up a stuck spool valve if this is indeed your problem. If you do the ABS tests, do consider leaving the test wires in place so you can activate both circuits of your ABS system and keep it working. Have the brake systems been flushed according to the maintenance schedule?

Edited to add: The Yamaha P/N for the Gen I Hydraulic Metering Assembly is 5VS-85930-09-00

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Not to stretch this too far ahead or away from the main issue: but, among those who accept using used parts -- used brake parts is, often, where they draw-the-line... :nono:

 

[OGAL]

Not to stretch this too far ahead or away from the main issue: but, among those who accept using used parts -- used brake parts is, often, where they draw-the-line... :nono:

I would agree if it were the front brake I appreciate your point in all seriousness.

So why doesn't the abs light indicate there is a fault in the system? This seems like an epic failure in the design and engineering of abs system. Am I missing something here?

 

[ionbeam]

A real quick reply as I step out for a ride. The ABS ECU can not sense a mechanically stuck spool valve.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Are you able to lock up the rear brake? I tried to test my ABS but couldn't get my rear brake to lock, even on gravel, and it was because I had air in the system. Once I bleed the brakes, the ABS worked fine.

 

[OGAL]

Are you able to lock up the rear brake? I tried to test my ABS but couldn't get my rear brake to lock, even on gravel, and it was because I had air in the system. Once I bleed the brakes, the ABS worked fine.

Yes, I just ran out to get some supplies to build an abs test coupler and it locked right up on nice, dry pavement. Good news is it tracks perfectly straight on a lock up.

 

[OGAL]

...Any chance, a used working metering block can be purchased anywhere if this is the problem?

Before you worry about deciding to live with a dead ABS circuit or other big buck solutions, test your ABS first. One of the ABS tests runs the ABS pump and hammers the spool valves, perhaps this alone could free up a stuck spool valve if this is indeed your problem.

ionbeam,

I rigged up a temporary test coupler and I ran your test#2 since the wife and offspring are out and I don't have a second pair of hands. Here are the test results:

On turning the key, the abs light started flashing, following the test protocol, the front lever pulsed nice and firmly 3 times, the rear pedal pulse 3 times ( a bit fainter feeling then the front but a definite pulse) then the front pulsed again 3 times. On the display the code 'Abs_11' came up.

I'm hoping its good news that the rear pedal pulsed. Let me run out and road test it to see if this solved the problem.

Thanks again.

 

[ionbeam]

... I ran your test#2...the rear pedal pulse 3 times...On the display the code 'Abs_11' came up...

Good news on a couple of fronts. Passing test #2 almost completely eliminates a failing ABS system, you should really run Test 1 also.

Abs_11 is actually pretty good news too. To have this code stored but no ABS warning light indicates it was a transient event that set the code stored in "Event History". It is also good news that it is a FRONT wheel ABS error code. This code can be set if the front wheel is stopped but the rear wheel turns for 20 seconds or more. This condition is likely to happen if a cold motorcycle is on the center stand and the engine started; the rear wheel will turn even if the transmission is in neutral. In any case, _11 is stored in History and is not an active code. At this time I suspect that _11has nothing to do with your rear wheel. Either delete this code or ignore it and move on with life.

If your FJR passes both ABS Tests 1 & 2 the ABS system is almost certainly working correctly and you have another issue.

 

[OGAL]

... I ran your test#2...the rear pedal pulse 3 times...On the display the code 'Abs_11' came up...

Good news on a couple of fronts. Passing test #2 almost completely eliminates a failing ABS system, you should really run Test 1 also.

If your FJR passes both ABS Tests 1 & 2 the ABS system is almost certainly working correctly and you have another issue.

You are a great resource, I appreciate all the detail you are providing.

My kid got home and we ran test #1.

This is what we did: Activated the front and rear brake at same time then turned the key. I keep continuous pressure on the rear trying to make it turn. The rear wheel would not release at all, and the front/back brake did pulse. I also road tested again, the rear stills locks up.

What do you think? Still good news ?

Thank you, again for your time.

 

[madmike2]

Did you try bleeding the rear brake?

I always try the simplest action first....

 

[HYCLE]

Here is what I tell my students about ABS systems.

If the anti-lock brake control module senses a wheel is about to lock, based on anti-lock brake sensor data, it closes the normally open solenoid valve for that circuit. This prevents any more fluid from entering that circuit.

The anti-lock brake control module then looks at the anti-lock brake sensor signal from the affected wheel again.

If that wheel is still decelerating, it opens the dump solenoid valve for that circuit. Releasing brake pressure from that wheel

Once the affected wheel comes back up to speed, the anti-lock brake control module returns the solenoid valves to their normal condition allowing fluid flow to the affected brake.

A roller pump in the ABS unit pumps brake fluid to reapply the brake. This cycle of releasing pressure and reapplying pressure continues and is the pulsation felt in the lever and pedal.

The most effective braking occurs with 18% slip and stopping distance increases as the wheel approaches being locked up.

 

[OGAL]

Did you try bleeding the rear brake?

I always try the simplest action first....

Not yet, its on my list though.

 

[LetzRoll]

Did you try bleeding the rear brake?

I always try the simplest action first....

Not yet, its on my list though.

OGAL,

I just had the same exact problem... bleed the rear brake before you do anything else. Ya got nothing to lose but about 30 seconds.

madmike2- Two huge thumbs up to you sir! I owe ya a beer. Too bad I was just out in NorCal last September on my FJR. Next time though... I go all over the place on my '05.

ionbeam, (and others) thanks for your excellent help. I was just getting ready to go down the path you suggested last night, when I read madmike2's very timely post. I spent most of yesterday afternoon either reading the FSM and/or doing simple troubleshooting such as checking fuses, wheel sensors, etc.

KISS - the first rule of troubleshooting. (But I never considered bleeding the brakes.)

I should have known to check this site first! I love this place! You guys have helped me so much over the years! I have tried to contribute (or at least pay it forward) when I get the chance, but it always seems like I get so much more out of this site than I put into it. (Thanks site Admins and everyone else for making this site what it is.)

I'm less than two weeks out of a trip to Key West from NYC on my trusty Feejer and the last thing I needed was a major repair bill ($1K?) to deal with.

You guys rock!

madmike2 - I owe ya!

 

[OGAL]

Did you try bleeding the rear brake?

I always try the simplest action first....

Not yet, its on my list though.

OGAL,

I just had the same exact problem... bleed the rear brake before you do anything else. Ya got nothing to lose but about 30 seconds.

madmike2- Two huge thumbs up to you sir! I owe ya a beer. Too bad I was just out in NorCal last September on my FJR. Next time though... I go all over the place on my '05.

ionbeam, (and others) thanks for your excellent help. I was just getting ready to go down the path you suggested last night, when I read madmike2's very timely post. I spent most of yesterday afternoon either reading the FSM and/or doing simple troubleshooting such as checking fuses, wheel sensors, etc.

KISS - the first rule of troubleshooting. (But I never considered bleeding the brakes.)

I should have known to check this site first! I love this place! You guys have helped me so much over the years! I have tried to contribute (or at least pay it forward) when I get the chance, but it always seems like I get so much more out of this site than I put into it. (Thanks site Admins and everyone else for making this site what it is.)

I'm less than two weeks out of a trip to Key West from NYC on my trusty Feejer and the last thing I needed was a major repair bill ($1K?) to deal with.

You guys rock!

madmike2 - I owe ya!

Man, I'm excited to hear this!