Replacing Brake PAds

[RossKean]

During a tire change, I noticed that one of the front pads is almost to the metal. Another couple (remember, 8 front pads on a GenII) are fairly well down but others have half or more of the meat remaining. The linked ones look almost new since I don't use rear brake all that much.

I have read a number of posts about uneven brake wear (apparently very common) and the endless discussions about OEM vs aftermarket; organic vs sintered and I don't really want to open that up. The question is whether it is OK to just replace the severely worn ones and leave the others? I assume it would be a bad idea to mix OEM and aftermarket on opposite sides of one of the pistons?? With the amount of money Yamaha wants for pads, I am thinking I may only replace the ones that are at least half worn.

Has anyone found anything that has made a difference in the uneven wear? i.e. Has cleaning pistons, replacing seals etc. made a significant measureable difference in the uneven wear tendancy? I haven't noticed any obvious dragging and don't find one or the other rotor especially hot after a highway run. No obvious pulsing or anything else that would suggest a real problem but if something needs to be serviced, I would rather do it sooner than later.

Any special recommended method for cleaning pistons without taking them out? (Don't want to get into a rebuild if it isn't absolutely necessary)

2007 with 38,000 miles, pads are original.

Ross

Edit: Has anyone found a better price for OEM than Zanotti @ $41.77/package (4 required).

 

[Checkswrecks]

During a tire change, I noticed that one of the front pads is almost to the metal. Another couple (remember, 8 front pads on a GenII) are fairly well down but others have half or more of the meat remaining. The linked ones look almost new since I don't use rear brake all that much.

Has anyone found anything that has made a difference in the uneven wear? i.e. Has cleaning pistons, replacing seals etc. made a significant measureable difference in the uneven wear tendancy?

Any special recommended method for cleaning pistons without taking them out? (Don't want to get into a rebuild if it isn't absolutely necessary)

Ross

Edit: Has anyone found a better price for OEM than Zanotti @ $41.77/package (4 required).

The calipers, pistons, and rotors don't care how thick the pad material is and the one easiest to move will wear quicker. Uneven wear can have a number of reasons, none of which you can really do anything about, unless bad enough that a piston is hung up. Which is why you do occasionally need to take the calipers apart and actually clean the gunk build-up. Sorry but there's not a super-slick way to get around the disassembly and at your mileage you're about due.

By the same token of not caring which has more pad and because it really is a 5-10 minute job you can swap pads so the thickest and thinnest trade places until the new ones arrive.

The one thing to try to do is make sure that everything heats and cools evenly and has about the same amount of friction. So no, you don't want to mix brands or pad types unless you want to accelerate rotor wear or warp one of them. :huh: In addition, the pads do harden with time and heat cycles, so just like not mixing types or brands, it is better to swap out the pads as a set. If trying to save a few bucks you probably could leave the linked set, so you only have to buy 6 pads, not 8.

Checks

 

[UHOH]

I used just half the number of pads when I replaced my '04 gen 1 brakes last year (or was it prior yr?).

Returned the unopened set of pads to dealer parts counter (with raised eyebrows noted).

One new pad and one old pad per side. Yamaha original and Yamaha replacement. 45,000 miles.

Clearly, put the new pad on the more worn side. works for me! ... and brakes work fine still at 59,000 miles.

 

[Andyfjr]

Never skimp on brakes and tyres, you might need them in an emergency one day!

 

[RossKean]

Never skimp on brakes and tyres, you might need them in an emergency one day!

Not skimping but I do not see any need to replace brake pads that are not excessively worn. Having said that, I have ordered a full set of replacement EBC HH pads and will hang on to the Yamaha OEMs for emergency spares. My (Canadian) dealer, wanted $360+ for 4 packages of Yammie pads!! Well over twice the cost of the "on-line" prices.

 

[exskibum]

Never skimp on brakes and tyres, you might need them in an emergency one day!

Not skimping but I do not see any need to replace brake pads that are not excessively worn. Having said that, I have ordered a full set of replacement EBC HH pads and will hang on to the Yamaha OEMs for emergency spares. My (Canadian) dealer, wanted $360+ for 4 packages of Yammie pads!! Well over twice the cost of the "on-line" prices.

I'm doing the same operation today (or tomorrow) on my Gen I. I got the pads from Gary McCoy (when he was still the go-to source 2 or 3 years ago), so the OEM pads were inexpensive enough not to cause me to shop for something cheaper -- I bought them with a bunch of other supplies (filters, plugs, crush washers, etc.) to have them for this day.

A caution about EBC pads (whether the HH or not, I don't know) -- madmike2 can tell you better about his experience, but on his '05, he used EBC pads for his first pad change and had to replace the rotors on his next pad change (with OEM pads). All appearances were that the EBC pads he had installed ate the OEM brake rotors, so be forewarned. PM him if you want to know more, but I recall his rotors were shot before we did a 2 week Canada trip in '09, and he was hard at work on maintenance (rotor replacement in particular) until days before we left; he was NOT happy about what had happened to his rotors.

I called Mike yesterday afternoon to chat about brake maintenance, and about his experiences with pads, rotors, brake lines, cylinder rebuilds and general caliper maintenance. He suggested cleaning the calipers with Brake Clean and a tooth brush with the pad change, and that to get it good and clean, you'll spend maybe a half hour per caliper to make sure the caked on crap can't affect the piston movement, including some effort with a saturated rag to get to some difficult to reach places. But he opined that nothing else is required on the first pad change from the typical looks of the slave cylinders, seals and pistons at that point.

 

[RossKean]

Never skimp on brakes and tyres, you might need them in an emergency one day!

Not skimping but I do not see any need to replace brake pads that are not excessively worn. Having said that, I have ordered a full set of replacement EBC HH pads and will hang on to the Yamaha OEMs for emergency spares. My (Canadian) dealer, wanted $360+ for 4 packages of Yammie pads!! Well over twice the cost of the "on-line" prices.

... He suggested cleaning the calipers with Brake Clean and a tooth brush with the pad change, and that to get it good and clean, you'll spend maybe a half hour per caliper to make sure the caked on crap can't affect the piston movement, including some effort with a saturated rag to get to some difficult to reach places. ...

I've bought the pads and guess I am going to take a chance with the EBC's. I will keep an eye on the rotors and will change the pads out if it looks like there is significant wear going on. When you say "Brake Clean" are you referring to a specific brand product or solvent-based brake cleaner in general? I was concerned that the solvents in brake cleaner might damage the paint on the calipers???

Ross

 

[SkooterG]

In the future, swap your pads - positions of the 'thick' and 'thin' ones for more even wearing over their life. That's what I do on my Gen I.

I don't think cleaning the pistons does all that much. In 226k miles I only did it two or three times on my first FJR. And I never saw any difference in how they wore right after cleaning vs. no cleaning for lots of miles.

What I think *can possibly* help is during every tire change excercise the pistons in and out a few times to get them moving.

I wouldn't mix different brands of pads, but I could see only replacing the really worn ones with new. Not ideal, but doable.

 

[FJRay]

The EBC pads also cost me a set of rotors also. 03 rotors are orphans and expensive. :angry2:

 

[RossKean]

In the future, swap your pads - positions of the 'thick' and 'thin' ones for more even wearing over their life. That's what I do on my Gen I.

I don't think cleaning the pistons does all that much. In 226k miles I only did it two or three times on my first FJR. And I never saw any difference in how they wore right after cleaning vs. no cleaning for lots of miles.

What I think *can possibly* help is during every tire change excercise the pistons in and out a few times to get them moving.

I wouldn't mix different brands of pads, but I could see only replacing the really worn ones with new. Not ideal, but doable.

In the future, I'll have to keep a closer eye on the pads. I did not check them with my previous tire change and this time, one or two of the pads were well below what I would even consider using - otherwise I would have swapped them. My dealer didn't have stock on the Yamaha pads, not to mention their retail price was insane at $92/pair so I elected to try the EBC.

I am a little surprised with the comments I have seen regarding damage to rotors. For what its worth, EBC rates these (sintered HH) as "minimal" disk damage - whatever that means. https://www.ebcbrakes.../double-h.shtml

As I said, I'll keep a close watch on rotor condition but I suspect that by the time I noticed anything, it might be too late. Did the pads cause the rotors to groove or did they uniformly wear them down below thickness specification?

Ross

 

[SkooterG]

I'm always amazed at the amount of folks who don't keep expendables on hand. Less stress and less $$$ when you have something in your garage ready to go when you really need it - which is usually 'RIGHT NOW'.

I guess I overdue it, but I have spares of just about everything on the FJR. I buy from online discount parts suppliers (to save $$$$) in bulk (to save more money on shipping).

I always have several oil filters, air filters, brake pads, bulbs, fasteners,ect. on hand. Helps make maintenance items simple.

 

[RossKean]

I'm always amazed at the amount of folks who don't keep expendables on hand. Less stress and less $$$ when you have something in your garage ready to go when you really need it - which is usually 'RIGHT NOW'.

I should be better at keeping stuff on hand for all of the reasons you mentioned. Even if I want to pay the dealers' inflated prices, they frequently don't have what I need. Mail order works better for you guys south of the border but with a little planning, I could manage to save some money by making a fairly large order of stuff and having it shipped to a US address to pick up - I am just an hour or so from the Maine border.

 

[Harald]

Cleaning and inspecting brake parts is a good idea whenever pads are being changed. Will cleaning stop uneven pad wear? I don't think so, but it can't hurt and will help if a sticky piston causes uneven wear. I have a piece of wood that's slightly less thickness than 2 worn out pads and the rotor. This wood gets placed in between the pistons and then I apply the brake to force the pistons outward (but not to the point of popping them out of their bores). Then a thorough cleaning can be done with brake cleaner and brushes. While inspecting, make sure the pins that the pads slide on are clean and don't have any ridges that can cause the pad to hang up.

I replaced the stock front pads on my 07 at about 38k and there was excessive wear on the left caliper pads on one side only (I believe it was inboard but don't have my maintenance log handy). The caliper pistons seemed to move freely and I cleaned everything very well. I installed Carbonne Lorraine pads. At 13k on those CL pads I was down to metal on the left front caliper and the rotors now measure below spec for service! :angry: Luckily I had the last set of CL pads sitting there that were destined for the front right caliper in the rear brake actuated position once they wore out. I placed those in the most worn position while I wait for new pads and used rotors (off ebay) to arrive. Yes, I believe it's okay to only replace the worn pads or rotate them to even out wear. In the future I plan on rotating pads every second front tire change to even out wear.

Needless to say, I'm not buying those CL pads again and in fact, I ordered factory pads for replacements. They may be crazy expensive, but the do seem to last 2.5 times as long as aftermarket and don't seem to eat rotors. And factory pads work just fine for braking power/feel.