RESISTORS (no, it's NOT a soccer team....)

[jayke]

All that's left is the purple brake wire. I know from personal experience if the purple wire is not grounded or with the wire just sitting there the cruise won't turn on. If there is any voltage present on the purple wire the cruise won't turn on either.

Can you give us more specifics? What does 'Wire just sitting there" mean?

The purple wire is connected to the brake light wire - not grounded. The idea is that it disengages the unit when the brake is applied.

So - if you ground it, you are negating the main safety feature?

Wire just siting there means not connected to anything, just a loose wire.

The purple wire on the working cruise controls is connected to ground through the brake light switch. Thats how you normally get your ground connection. When you press on the brake pedal, +12 VDC is sent through the brake light switch to the purple wire which shuts the cruise off.

You are correct... grounding the purple wire is negating the main safety feature. Thanks for pointing out the oversight. I need to edit my post to read if the cruise now works add a relay to switch the purple wire from ground to +12VDc to shut the cruise off normally before you ride in traffic.

 

[kaitsdad]

All that's left is the purple brake wire. I know from personal experience if the purple wire is not grounded or with the wire just sitting there the cruise won't turn on. If there is any voltage present on the purple wire the cruise won't turn on either.

Can you give us more specifics? What does 'Wire just sitting there" mean?

The purple wire is connected to the brake light wire - not grounded. The idea is that it disengages the unit when the brake is applied.

So - if you ground it, you are negating the main safety feature?

Wire just siting there means not connected to anything, just a loose wire.

The purple wire on the working cruise controls is connected to ground through the brake light switch. Thats how you normally get your ground connection. When you press on the brake pedal, +12 VDC is sent through the brake light switch to the purple wire which shuts the cruise off.

You are correct... grounding the purple wire is negating the main safety feature. Thanks for pointing out the oversight. I need to edit my post to read if the cruise now works add a relay to switch the purple wire from ground to +12VDc to shut the cruise off normally before you ride in traffic.

Yeah, having that cruise not shut off could be kind of ... well ..... exciting? in a bad way, that is.

 

[jayke]

While I applaud the use of a relay to overcome the problem or the use of a diode to do the same thing, this post is about resistors.

True. I should have posted on the Audiovox poll post. Sorry!

 

[wfooshee]

You guys are thinking too hard. I work in the electronics industry. When my techs get stuck I'm the one that has to solve the problem. It's human nature to think electrical problems are really complex, usually it's something simple.
Remember Smitty said that the Audiovox cruises' that didn't work on the Gen II's worked fine on the Gen I's. To me that rules out the Audiovox Cruise as the root cause. Since Smitty, a proven installer, has had problems we can rule out installation error.

The Audiovox Cruise has only two connections to the FJR not counting the power connections. The blue tach wire and the purple brake wire. Several forum members with non-working cruise on the Gen II tried using VSS off the rear wheel. The cruise still didn't work. To me that rules out the blue tach wire as a cause.

All that's left is the purple brake wire. I know from personal experience if the purple wire is not grounded or with the wire just sitting there the cruise won't turn on. If there is any voltage present on the purple wire the cruise won't turn on either.

My conclusion is a intermittent ground or voltage on the purple brake wire.

If I am correct , connecting the purple wire to chassis ground should make the non-working cruise operate.

A big caution here... the cruise may work with purple wire connected to chassis ground but it won't shut off unless you pull in the clutch or turn the cruise off at the keypad. Please be very careful if you try this!!!

If the cruise now works add a relay to switch the purple wire from ground to +12VDC to shut the cruise off normally before you ride in traffic.

That is very nearly verbatim what I suggested to Smitty in a PM after referring to a post where someone discovered 8 volts on the wire the purpe wire connects to. They may have had an LED brake light kit or something, but I asked Smitty if that was common on Gen-IIs somehow, he stated he didn't think it was the problem. I then suggested grounding the purple wire as a test, but to be ready on the off button. He's been a little busy, some lame excuse about riding a CC50 or something. . .

 

[rfulcher]

This is a resistor thread.

However, been there done that. Did not effect the problem at all. Grounded the purple lead directly to the frame. Even wired all of the + and - directly to the batttery. I had to manually disconnect, as in unplug connections, to turn the CC off. Only the on/off switch on the key pad or RPM peaks (don't ask me how I know this) would turn it off.

You guys are thinking too hard. I work in the electronics industry. When my techs get stuck I'm the one that has to solve the problem. It's human nature to think electrical problems are really complex, usually it's something simple.
Remember Smitty said that the Audiovox cruises' that didn't work on the Gen II's worked fine on the Gen I's. To me that rules out the Audiovox Cruise as the root cause. Since Smitty, a proven installer, has had problems we can rule out installation error.

The Audiovox Cruise has only two connections to the FJR not counting the power connections. The blue tach wire and the purple brake wire. Several forum members with non-working cruise on the Gen II tried using VSS off the rear wheel. The cruise still didn't work. To me that rules out the blue tach wire as a cause.

All that's left is the purple brake wire. I know from personal experience if the purple wire is not grounded or with the wire just sitting there the cruise won't turn on. If there is any voltage present on the purple wire the cruise won't turn on either.

My conclusion is a intermittent ground or voltage on the purple brake wire.

If I am correct , connecting the purple wire to chassis ground should make the non-working cruise operate.

A big caution here... the cruise may work with purple wire connected to chassis ground but it won't shut off unless you pull in the clutch or turn the cruise off at the keypad. Please be very careful if you try this!!!

If the cruise now works add a relay to switch the purple wire from ground to +12VDC to shut the cruise off normally before you ride in traffic.

That is very nearly verbatim what I suggested to Smitty in a PM after referring to a post where someone discovered 8 volts on the wire the purpe wire connects to. They may have had an LED brake light kit or something, but I asked Smitty if that was common on Gen-IIs somehow, he stated he didn't think it was the problem. I then suggested grounding the purple wire as a test, but to be ready on the off button. He's been a little busy, some lame excuse about riding a CC50 or something. . .

 

[jayke]

So was your cruise working before you grounded the purple wire to the frame? You would only want to ground the purple wire as a test if the cruise did not work when connected through the brake light switch.

Resistor post or not I thought we were trying to solve the original problem of the cruise not working on some GenII's

The Forum and it's members helped me out a lot in the past, just trying to return the favor.

 

[rfulcher]

Had the flaky AVCC syndrome before I grounded the purple wire and had the flaky AVCC after I grounded the wire. Grounding the wire to eleminate the variable of the brake circuit made no difference.

So was your cruise working before you grounded the purple wire to the frame? You would only want to ground the purple wire as a test if the cruise did not work when connected through the brake light switch.
Resistor post or not I thought we were trying to solve the original problem of the cruise not working on some GenII's

The Forum and it's members helped me out a lot in the past, just trying to return the favor.

 

[BrunDog]

Sorry jayke, I think they looked into this before, too. I know it would have been cool to pop on the seen and solve the problem we have been looking at for a while.

I also do not think anything has changed on the brake circuit from Gen I to Gen II. The yellow wire is pulled high by the brake switches. Otherwise, this wire should yield 0V, because the bulb filaments will pull the voltage to zero. Plus, the switches are mechanical, so there is absolutely no load on that wire when the switches are open. It would certainly not hurt to double check, of course!

-BD

 

[bmwhd]

Sorry jayke, I think they looked into this before, too. I know it would have been cool to pop on the seen and solve the problem we have been looking at for a while.
I also do not think anything has changed on the brake circuit from Gen I to Gen II. The yellow wire is pulled high by the brake switches. Otherwise, this wire should yield 0V, because the bulb filaments will pull the voltage to zero. Plus, the switches are mechanical, so there is absolutely no load on that wire when the switches are open. It would certainly not hurt to double check, of course!

-BD

This is why I continue to bark up the (very possibly wrong) tree of actuator cable interference. We've darn near eliminated everything else.

Just because we've not seen a stuck throttle doesn't mean the cable isn't the problem. It could well be that the AVCC servo is much more sensitive to resistance in the cable pull than the human hand.

 

[ionbeam]

This is why I continue to bark up the (very possibly wrong) tree of actuator cable interference. We've darn near eliminated everything else.
Just because we've not seen a stuck throttle doesn't mean the cable isn't the problem. It could well be that the AVCC servo is much more sensitive to resistance in the cable pull than the human hand.

I've now actually measured the vacuum cup that the servo cable is attached to, it is 2.8" in dia and .8" tall ~10.25 sq/in of area for the vacuum to work on. There is also a long spring which extends the cable; the spring is capable of exerting 1.75 lbs of force (actual measurement).

It's easy to test for cable drag. When an unfortunate owner of a bad AVCC starts to experience problems they need to pull over, then in neutral or with the clutch pulled in, rev the tach up to 2k rpms and turn loose of the throttle; if it returns to 1,100 rpm PDQ the cable is not sticking in the extend mode (releasing the throttle pulley). While riding with the cruise control set, periodically try to manually turn the throttle down to reduce speed, this is using the hand throttle close cable to pull against the AVCC cable. Under most circumstances you should be able to use A LOT of force without changing vehicle speed much. As time/distance increases keep verifying that there is a lot of force from the AVCC resisting your manually turning down the throttle. On a straight, level road, while maintaining a steady speed there will be as much as 40 lbs of pull capability from the servo's cable, it is this force you are trying to pull against when you try to turn down the throttle.

The way a sticking throttle cable would affect the cruise control is to introduce error between the AVCC CPU commands and the return signal from the coil. This is described here. If there is adequate vacuum at the servo it would take an awesomely bound AVCC cable to create this much error. You would be able to feel the bound cable in the hand throttle response because the AVCC cable is always attached to the throttle linkage and what ever happens to one has to happen to the other. The AVCC is more affected by a rapid rate of signal change than by slow response like a binding cable would produce.

 

[bmwhd]

This is why I continue to bark up the (very possibly wrong) tree of actuator cable interference. We've darn near eliminated everything else.
Just because we've not seen a stuck throttle doesn't mean the cable isn't the problem. It could well be that the AVCC servo is much more sensitive to resistance in the cable pull than the human hand.

I've now actually measured the vacuum cup that the servo cable is attached to, it is 2.8" in dia and .8" tall ~10.25 sq/in of area for the vacuum to work on. There is also a long spring which extends the cable; the spring is capable of exerting 1.75 lbs of force (actual measurement).

It's easy to test for cable drag. When an unfortunate owner of a bad AVCC starts to experience problems they need to pull over, then in neutral or with the clutch pulled in, rev the tach up to 2k rpms and turn loose of the throttle; if it returns to 1,100 rpm PDQ the cable is not sticking in the extend mode (releasing the throttle pulley). While riding with the cruise control set, periodically try to manually turn the throttle down to reduce speed, this is using the hand throttle close cable to pull against the AVCC cable. Under most circumstances you should be able to use A LOT of force without changing vehicle speed much. As time/distance increases keep verifying that there is a lot of force from the AVCC resisting your manually turning down the throttle. On a straight, level road, while maintaining a steady speed there will be as much as 40 lbs of pull capability from the servo's cable, it is this force you are trying to pull against when you try to turn down the throttle.

The way a sticking throttle cable would affect the cruise control is to introduce error between the AVCC CPU commands and the return signal from the coil. This is described here. If there is adequate vacuum at the servo it would take an awesomely bound AVCC cable to create this much error. You would be able to feel the bound cable in the hand throttle response because the AVCC cable is always attached to the throttle linkage and what ever happens to one has to happen to the other. The AVCC is more affected by a rapid rate of signal change than by slow response like a binding cable would produce.

You make a good case that this is not the problem. I asked because the one or two times mine has cut out has been when it seemed to me like the AVCC needed to increase throttle, started to do so, then released as if it decided it couldn't pull the cable effectively. Mine works fine 98% of the time but will drop out once in a great while. Oh well, standing by for the cure...

 

[wfooshee]

You make a good case that this is not the problem. I asked because the one or two times mine has cut out has been when it seemed to me like the AVCC needed to increase throttle, started to do so, then released as if it decided it couldn't pull the cable effectively. Mine works fine 98% of the time but will drop out once in a great while. Oh well, standing by for the cure...

If it applies vacuum to pull the cable and nothing (or very little) happens to the speed, it assumes something's wrong and drops out. This can happen on steep hill, too low a gear, or insufficient vacuum reserve.

Edited some hours later to add that Zipper fixed his by grounding the purple wire, but he had a back-off module or something like that in his brake lights, apparently putting non-zero voltage on the circuit.