Reverse engineering an Ignition Switch Failure
- Thread starter Barabus
- Start date
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Thanks for the detailed investigation!
After reading the various ignition switch failure threads, I checked out my system. The wiring bundle is tied off on mine, but there's not excessive tension/bending of the wiring. I did notice that my brand new bike has a "floppy" cover over the ignition key hole. Normally the cover should actually cover the hole when the key is removed, but in my case it stays mostly open. Because I live in Seattle where it rains continuously year 'round and I ride year 'round, I'll definitely want the dealer to fix that problem.
After reading the various ignition switch failure threads, I checked out my system. The wiring bundle is tied off on mine, but there's not excessive tension/bending of the wiring. I did notice that my brand new bike has a "floppy" cover over the ignition key hole. Normally the cover should actually cover the hole when the key is removed, but in my case it stays mostly open. Because I live in Seattle where it rains continuously year 'round and I ride year 'round, I'll definitely want the dealer to fix that problem.
You know folks...I want to congratulate Barabus on a job VERY WELL DONE. Where we can often have thread after thread and post after post about what we think might be wrong, what Yamaha should do about some issue, etc......Barabus actually went the distance, researched and documented to great detail an issue that's been high up on our radar, and the results weren't necessarily what we all had thought from the beginning.
Yes, I'm sure there will be some continued discussion. But, I just wanted to note Barabus' great work. It's this kind of work that represents the best attribute of our forum community.
Thank you.
[SIZE=14pt]Good On 'Ya BARABUS! [/SIZE] :yahoo: :clapping: :yahoo: :clapping: :yahoo: :clapping:
kurtfriedrich
Well-known member
Slardy
Well-known member
I agree, very nice work Barabus :yahoo:
I simply put masking tape over my keyhole when I wash my FJR.
Slardy
I simply put masking tape over my keyhole when I wash my FJR.
Slardy
pickax
Well-known member
This is timely, was going to post asking about contact cleaner. Just got back from 4000 miles beginning at EOM where this same problem surfaced on my "06.
On the way to EOM, we rode through 6 hours hard rain and the bike sat in same overnight for 24 hours total.
Beautiful sunshine the next day, but no boot up on ignition. After many ingition cycles I was able to get needle sweep, then full boot up on the display where it started with no problems the rest of the day.
The same routine for the next 3 morning starts, to a lesser degree each day, with perfect weather the rest of the trip, there were no more incidents.
I lubed the key early on last year with a heavy Krytox (same viscosity as vaseline) grease to keep the tumblers lubed, but it was a small amount. I suspect it was water alone that had my contacts screwed up, but as Barry said it doesnt take much dirt. (I also clipped the tie wrap back when Dcarver had his problem).
What would be the best combo to clean, then protect the contacts? I suspect even silicone would hold grit, but I'm not familiar with "dry silicone".
On the way to EOM, we rode through 6 hours hard rain and the bike sat in same overnight for 24 hours total.
Beautiful sunshine the next day, but no boot up on ignition. After many ingition cycles I was able to get needle sweep, then full boot up on the display where it started with no problems the rest of the day.
The same routine for the next 3 morning starts, to a lesser degree each day, with perfect weather the rest of the trip, there were no more incidents.
I lubed the key early on last year with a heavy Krytox (same viscosity as vaseline) grease to keep the tumblers lubed, but it was a small amount. I suspect it was water alone that had my contacts screwed up, but as Barry said it doesnt take much dirt. (I also clipped the tie wrap back when Dcarver had his problem).
What would be the best combo to clean, then protect the contacts? I suspect even silicone would hold grit, but I'm not familiar with "dry silicone".
pickax
Well-known member
Did some asking around and found a contact cleaner that wont attack plastics. https://www.wurthusa.com/project/en/leftnav...ath=09.0111.jpg
A freind who is a Mercedes mechanic uses the contact OL regularly with good results. Also, he and our FD fleet mechanic
stated not to use anything as a protectant due to grime collection and possible arcing across the contacts.
Will check the dealer today to find the floppy cover Harald mentioned also.
A freind who is a Mercedes mechanic uses the contact OL regularly with good results. Also, he and our FD fleet mechanic
stated not to use anything as a protectant due to grime collection and possible arcing across the contacts.
Will check the dealer today to find the floppy cover Harald mentioned also.
Mikenumber22
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ok - I am not a conspiracy theorist but here we go :assassin:
WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN WITH THE FJR AND NOT OTHER BIKES????
We think this is due to dirty contacts and that you most likely get dirt in the switch from washing the bike with the key in the switch . . . But . . . You've got to keep the key in the switch to keep the windshield up to clean the area behind it . . . That's why FJR's have a higher occurence of this issue than you see in other bikes . . .
Lesson learned - pull the power connector that provides power to the windhsield to retract when you turn the bike off (see other threads on how).
In the realm of possibilities???
h34r:
WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN WITH THE FJR AND NOT OTHER BIKES????
We think this is due to dirty contacts and that you most likely get dirt in the switch from washing the bike with the key in the switch . . . But . . . You've got to keep the key in the switch to keep the windshield up to clean the area behind it . . . That's why FJR's have a higher occurence of this issue than you see in other bikes . . .
Lesson learned - pull the power connector that provides power to the windhsield to retract when you turn the bike off (see other threads on how).
In the realm of possibilities???
h34r: 
Duff
Well-known member
I think it's just because us FJR riders, as a whole, are just a bunch of dirty Bass-Tards! :dribble:
JMHO... I could be wrong. It happened once. :glare:
ionbeam
2 FUN
Umm, graphite is a conductor -- roughly three orders of magnitude lower than that of copper. You probably don't want to be putting finely ground conductive material in you key switch. Graphite in door locks good, graphite in electrical switches not good. Even un-good.
So Ion, I value your electrical knowlege. I have a floppy key switch hole...what should I use to "unstick" it? Lots of suggestions in this thread but aside from don't use oil based or graphite cleaners, I'm stumped......
ionbeam
2 FUN
Silicon spray, as others have mentioned.
Graphite doesn't cause instant switch death from a one time use unless you really poured it in, as it collects over repeat applications it will start to allow a trickle of current to pass through the switch even when the key is off. This can result in the protracted and annoying condition of low battery voltage which is difficult to troubleshoot.
Graphite doesn't cause instant switch death from a one time use unless you really poured it in, as it collects over repeat applications it will start to allow a trickle of current to pass through the switch even when the key is off. This can result in the protracted and annoying condition of low battery voltage which is difficult to troubleshoot.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks Ion, I assume any Silicon spray for electrical connections would be ok unless somebody posts otherwise? This thread and others continue to teach me a lot, just slow going for the mechanically challenged.........
And thank you Barabus for a job well done I could not have begun.
Rondo777
Well-known member
KUDOS on this thread. That was just a great read and really informative and appreciated. Thanks! :clapping:
No silicon spray at the local auto parts stores. Used some electronics contact cleaner with no oil or residue and safe for plastics, etc. Still sticks... sometimes one side of the ignition "flap" and sometimes the other. Just my experience so far. I'll keep looking for silicone product.
jonathan
Member
I been shooting wd-40 down the ignition switch using that lil red straw ,, for almost 6 yrs now...
after every wash or serious ride in the rain......
no problems, ever...
after every wash or serious ride in the rain......
no problems, ever...
FJRay
Well-known member
I have been reading this one over a few times and it seems that when I had the switch die on mine, I drilled out the screws to do an autopsy and found that the area where the contacts live is totaly seperate from the tumblers.
I don't see how spraying lube into the key hole is going to contaminate the contacts. I felt that the junk around the contacts came from the hole in the bottom of the switch. After a good cleaning and lube job with silicone grease mine has been fine for a year.
I don't see how spraying lube into the key hole is going to contaminate the contacts. I felt that the junk around the contacts came from the hole in the bottom of the switch. After a good cleaning and lube job with silicone grease mine has been fine for a year.
Niehart
Pie Smuggler
My failure was like DCarvers. Even thought I read his post & cut the tire tie and loosed the wire up, months later one of my wires came loose on the bottom of the lock.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
I hate to pay money for spares parts to tag along, but this ignition switch failure issue seems like a showstopper, so I got a switch from https://www.mrcycles/com and I had a local locksmith convert it over to my current ignition key.
When my Heli Bar triple clamp shows up in a couple of weeks, I'll install the new switch in the new clamp, and keep the original as the spare.... in the hope that the more recent switch stock from the mrcycles order will not be as likely to fail. This may be wishful thinking.
Total cost for the new switch and the locksmith was $109 and some change. The switch was part of a larger order of various UJM parts, so a few more bucks could be added for shipping.
FYI - I took the switch to the locksmith NIB. He spent half an hour working on it (had to pop the plastic screw covers, back out the screws with a punch and hammer, change wafers, do some filing to get things smooth, and then put it back together). His charge including taxes was $16.46.
I guess I could have waited for a failure and let Y.E.S. pay for it all, but if I ever get stranded on a trip, it will be nice to be ready. It would have been cheaper to do the toggle switch mod, and cheaper still to carry the wire nuts.... but this wasn't cost prohibitive for a spare part on a longish trip. At least not as bad as trying to second guess and prepare for the dreaded EWS failure on the ignition of my BMW K1200Rsport.
When my Heli Bar triple clamp shows up in a couple of weeks, I'll install the new switch in the new clamp, and keep the original as the spare.... in the hope that the more recent switch stock from the mrcycles order will not be as likely to fail. This may be wishful thinking.
Total cost for the new switch and the locksmith was $109 and some change. The switch was part of a larger order of various UJM parts, so a few more bucks could be added for shipping.
FYI - I took the switch to the locksmith NIB. He spent half an hour working on it (had to pop the plastic screw covers, back out the screws with a punch and hammer, change wafers, do some filing to get things smooth, and then put it back together). His charge including taxes was $16.46.
I guess I could have waited for a failure and let Y.E.S. pay for it all, but if I ever get stranded on a trip, it will be nice to be ready. It would have been cheaper to do the toggle switch mod, and cheaper still to carry the wire nuts.... but this wasn't cost prohibitive for a spare part on a longish trip. At least not as bad as trying to second guess and prepare for the dreaded EWS failure on the ignition of my BMW K1200Rsport.
