Riding Techniques, Tips and Questions

[Dangerous Dave]

In the twisties, I try to pretty much stay in the right side tire track. I've found that the middle of the lane tends to be a gathering place for debris. I'll sacrifice a bit of downrange vision on the right-handers. If I do overcook the entry a bit, there's a bit of a margin to run wide without entering the oncoming lane.
Feedback? Corrections? Additions? Criticism? Cheap shots?

TC, your second description of what you're trying to accomplish (previous post, same thread) was fairly spot-on. Here are my thoughts about what you've said thus far.

The first thing that raised an eyebrow was your mention of cold weather. Not sure what your definition of cold is, but cold tires and/or pavement can bite your ass hard and fast. Be cautious getting too overzealous when riding in chilly weather. Cold tires or pavement can be unpredictable with ugly results.

Second thing, which you probably already know, but I hate to assume, is that if you're not already running out of tread or ground clearance, hanging off is a moot point. 'Nuff said on that.

Third thing relates to the above quote of yours. I used to think the same way as you state about leaving room to run wide. Here's what I learned after I got edumacated....

You may think you're leaving room to run wide, but actually, you're causing yourself to run wide by doing so. The pics in any one of the books previously mentioned will illustrate this point better than I can describe it, but here goes. The idea of starting wide, turning into the apex, then running wide again, is to make the turn as gentle as possible overall. By staying tight to the inside at the corner entrance, you'll force yourself to either run wide at the exit, or turn ALOT harder at the exit to keep from running wide. Does that make sense? Like I said, the pics illustrate this concept well, and it really does work.

Since you're looking for riding tips, here are a few things I struggled with the most when I first started racing.

Target fixation! 'Nuff said.

Getting off the brakes and on the gas entering a corner. I learned this in my first race weekend at the (in)famous Nelson Ledges. Picture this...you're haulin' ass down a straight and coming to a corner. You're pretty damn sure you're going too fast to get turned into this tight-ass corner, so you start hogging on the brakes, but you still can't get the bike to turn in, so you figure you're still going too fast and continue hogging on the brakes. Meanwhile, EVERYBODY that was behind you just passed you. Thank goodness they have practice before the race. Most bikes (Unless you have exceptionally well set up suspension) don't like to turn in on the brakes. You have to GET OFF THE BRAKES AND GET ON THE GAS! A tough one to overcome for sure, but it really makes all the difference in the world.

Lastly, (and this kinda piggybacks onto the previous) is smoothness. This was already mentioned, but let me elaborate a bit. Getting off the rakes and on the gas or vice-versa seems like a no-brainer, but it's not. Smooth transitions between the two are critical. One of your main goals is to keep the chassis as composed as possible at all times, that is, the least amount of "pitching" fore and aft. Proper suspension setup is #1 on that list, but ham-fisted rider inputs can render the best suspension setup useless. The difference between "dumping" the brake and eeeaasing off the brake is a matter of milliseconds in real life, but infinite in the affect on chassis composure. Ditto for rolling on the throttle vs yanking it. Smoooooth transitions. The differences may seem subtle, but they're invaluable in making the bike do what you want it to.

If you have track days available to you semi-locally...do it. The benefit is that you have all day to turn up the wick gradually, practice in the saddle what you're learning in print, repeat, all in a controlled environement.

There, that oughta give you a little to think about.

 

[rogdeb]

Just like to add that this is a GREAT thread.

Just read David Houghs "Proficient Motorcycling" & Lee Parks "Total Control" (excellent book) and am now into Houghs "More Proficient ...."

Now all I need is to put it all to practice

And trying to get Deb to slide off the pillion in corners :lol:

 

[rogdeb]

@ Toecutter

Thanks for starting this one. :clap:

 

[Coyote]

Disclamer - "No claims of expertise on my part" , but I gots lots of opinions.

Hanging sometimes conjures up pictures of something you are doing with your arms. Not sure that any of these posts outright stated that your grip on the handlebars should be relaxed. Tension on the bars doesn't allow the bike to do what it's designed to do.

If you are set up perfectly in the turn, the only thing the bike needs from you is to work the throttle properly and tell it when the turn is over.

 

[rogdeb]

Lee Parks speaks a lot about a relaxed arm posture and allowing the front wheel to do what it's supposed to.

 

[FastJoyRide]

TC

+1 on what Dangerous Dave said. Also, when it's open sight lines, you will have a lot more fun initiating left hand turns from the left hand lane position. This gives you a lot of room for potentially adjusting lane position for critters, obstacles, and let's not kid ourselves: brain farts, without potentially visting the shoulder of the road or worse. The key here is good visibility of potential oncoming traffic - AT LEAST - through the apex of the turn. If there's oncoming, or unknown traffic (lack of visibility), then I'm with you in the right lane position, and I'm riding more slowly to preserve my options, recognizing that I don't have much room to swerve right in an emergency!

I am not an advocate of squaring off corners (track theory) as IMO the road surface is just too unpredictable if you are regularly crossing the center lane 'grease strip' with lower than normal sized tire contact patches when cornering. If I know the road well, and have done a recce run recently, I will occasionally indulge in full lane width cornering, but remember street riding is not track riding and vice versa. I don't want to be anywhere near the edge of my envelope in a street riding environment.

I think there is a lot of experience and talent in this group. Lots of us spent time instructing new motorcyclists for the MSF or Canada Safety Council. If we could create a reference source for relatively newer riders, that would be a good thing!

From an old, if not so bold, pilot.

 

[Geezer]

I agree with most of what has been said so far, especially with staying in the tire tracks of the 4 wheelers in order to avoid debris and oil and wha tnot (altought the stripe of grease down the middle of a lane is not as prevalent as it was 25 years ago). But, there are times when you must use the entire lane on a right hander in order to see far enough ahead to stay safe. There are some curves where the brush and hedges come out to within a few feet of the road, not really any shoulder, and I have to use the whole lane to see far eough ahead for look for stopped traffic, critters, etc.

That brings me to my next point. It is a good thing to practice and develop the best of habits, but those habits have to include the ability to behave differently depending on circumstances. In my example above, it is OK to develop a habit to stay in the right tire track most of the time, but you have to be able to decide when to change that habit quickly if you don't have adequate sight distance for the curve. You have to ride with your brain fully engaged and focused on the ride.

 

[Coyote]

... but those habits have to include the ability to behave differently depending on circumstances.

Geezers point is well taken. Most of the country roads I travel (CA) don't have grease strips. The sections with dirt/gravel debris can usually be spotted early enough to adjust speed or line. Be aware of your environment and don't attempt using track speeds and lines.

Some of the situtations that slow me down are blind curves with turnouts, parking areas, or dirveways where traffic can't see you coming. I don't yield to the temptation to race on freeway onramps, where commute traffic stops and deposits grease and other slippery ****. Likewise for city streets where traffic periodically stands still. I also make efforts to keep my skull out of cager territory (whether it belongs to me or not).

It could be poor observation, but it seems to me that the FJR groups I've riden with don't spend their life in cager tracks either.

 

[Scab]

I got a simple one for you (but really, not so simple). How about the "oh ****" stop? After coming off a MUCH heavier bike, I am finding the rear wheel locks way too easy on this FJR when I need to "panic stop". My FJR is obviously non-abs. I find that when this occurs, (cager pull-out, dog, cop, etc.) my right foot is on the rear brake long befor the right hand can release the throttle and grab some lever. So what are the techniques, tips, etc? We all have to stop and we all will have to do it in a shorter distance than we prefer at some time.

And don't say "get ABS" - too late now.

 

[madmike2]

#1. Whenever I'm in traffic or a congested area (even a "safe" neighborhood) I try to cover the front brake handle with 2 fingers. That can cut your response time by a second or more.

#2. Practice stopping with the front brake. I work at making it my habit to stop with the front brake so that when an emergency arises, I am automatically squeezing the front brake handle before my foot gets on the rear brake pedal.

#3. I posted above that I need to "work" on my sudden or panic stop this Spring. I need to practice engaging the front brake and continuing to squeeze the handle, not "grab" all the front brake immediately, and modulate my rear brake so that it doesn't skid.

Only by practice will we find our limits vs. the bikes limits and capabilities. I'm sorry to say I am one who hasn't really "worked" on this facet of riding for a couple of years, so I am well overdue for a practice session/tune-up. It sounds like you are, too. Go find a vacant parking lot (a school on a weekend?), mark out a starting pint and measure out the footage range in 5' or 10' increments, then practice and see how short a distance you can stop. Start at 10 mph and work up 5 mph at a time. At least, that's what I plan to do. I don't want to wait until I need the practice...like in the middle of a situations...then I can lay in the hospital bed and say to myself, "You should have practiced!"

 

[Windjammer]

I'll toss in .02 - I've been a volunter cornerworker for a motorcycle racing club for over 10 years. I say this mostly to qualify my point which is this: riding at "Track speed" can mean just about anything, depending on your skill level. I've watched novices (who thought they were fast on the street) tiptoe around the racetrack like old ladies, at least compared to other riders who were more skilled. They had to learn what "fast" really was. So using the term "riding at track speed" to descibe how fast your going is not very accurate.

If you want to learn better cornering, I'd suggest:

1. Take a track school, not just a track day. Learn hands-on in a safe environment from the experts, and at your own pace. Use track days to practice what you learn.

2. Take what you have learned, and use it when needed to get yer ass out of trouble on the street. Avoid cornering near the limit on the street, or at least use good judgement when doing so.

3. As others have said, the street requires the ability to constantly adapt to a set of ever changing circumstances. It's very different from the controlled environment at the track. So it's difficult to adopt a "set of rules" for the street, because so many variables are present. Perhaps the best rules are to practice basic skills, remain alert, and ride well within your limits.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I got a simple one for you (but really, not so simple).  How about the "oh ****" stop?  After coming off a MUCH heavier bike, I am finding the rear wheel locks way too easy on this FJR when I need to "panic stop".  My FJR is obviously non-abs.  I find that when this occurs, (cager pull-out, dog, cop, etc.) my right foot is on the rear brake long befor the right hand can release the throttle and grab some lever.  So what are the techniques, tips, etc? 

Its pretty difficult to overcome basic survival instincts in a panic stop and the body's natural reaction seems to be to have the right foot stomp on the rear brake when you need to stop in a hurry. Most of the times I have locked up the rear brake I wasn't even aware that I was using it. If you use the front brakes properly then you really don't need much braking power from the rear brake. One of the ways to avoid locking the rear brake is to change the position of the brake lever to make it more difficult to reach. Another thing you can do, although it sounds extreme, is to contaminate the brake pads so the rear brake will not lock at speed. I had a sport bike once that had comtimated pads on the rear and I just left them like that. I still had adequate braking power in the rear when the front brakes were applied and never had to worry about rear wheel lockup.

 

[FJRME]

This is a good guideline for street riding. Keeps the fun AND the perspective:

The Pace

 

[Coyote]

One of the ways to avoid locking the rear brake is to change the position of the brake lever to make it more difficult to reach.  Another thing you can do, although it sounds extreme, is to contaminate the brake pads so the rear brake will not lock at speed.

I tried moving my lever down by ne spline.Turns out that it is a long way down is a long way. I moved it back.

I also read somewhere about grinding the pads smaller. Sounds like a good idea, but I'm just going to continue letting my ABS talk to me. And it does that pretty regularly.

If anyone hears about a school for right feet, let me know. I'll attend just about any kind of motorcycling school.

 

[Scab]

I like the sound of practicing with some measured stops. I'll see if I can retrain my body's natural reactions. Also, since I work at a college, finding a parking lot is easy. One fear is going over the bars (stopie-gone-wrong style). I know this is more a subconscious fear than anything based on reality since I don't even know where the limits are on the front brake.

What are the chances of locking the front wheel in reality? Or, will you grip so well you will just eat it over the top?

 

[MCRIDER007]

What are the chances of locking the front wheel in reality?  Or, will you grip so well you will just eat it over the top?

It definitely is possible to lock the front bike on modern sport bikes and you might even be able to raise the rear wheel slightly off the ground doing it but it usually takes a stunt rider to raise the rear wheel very high. Part of your heavy braking practice sessions should be to try keep your weight off the front end as much as possible because once its a lot easier to control the bike if you sitting on it rather than leaning over the front fender.

 

[Toecutter]

If anyone hears about a school for right feet, let me know. I'll attend just about any kind of motorcycling school.

I think Mad Mike has the right idea. Lots of practice.

 

[user 1521]

I'll see if I can retrain my body's natural reactions.

It's not a "natural" reaction, and can definitely be retrained with a little patiance. It's a habit most people learn, probably because of fear of locking up the front tyre, which in turn maybe comes from riding bicycles ealier in life, where front brakes in gravel was certain death, but rear brake was wahay fun.

A natural reaction is really nothing more than what we do all the time. So if you habitually always use the rear brake tootling around town, good chance you will do the exact same thing come an emergency brake, and lock it in the panic.

There is no substitute for just practicing smooth full force braking. Make that a natural reaction.

I find it useful to force myself to brake "by the book" always, not just be lazy and drag the right foot.

My bike is ABS, but I certainly don't regularly put it to use, in fact it's only fired once, at very low speed as I hit a bump. For me it's more a safe guard, and a tool for practicing to allow me to find the braking limits, not something allowing me to just grab the brakes and let take care of the details.

For safe riding, I think practicing braking and swerving are the best places to start. Learn how to stop, and that you go where you looked.

Setting up corners better , smoother and so on is great, and I can see the safety value in these things, but braking is a basic, and the very first thing I sort out on a new bike.

 

[MCRIDER007]

It's not a "natural" reaction, and can definitely be retrained with a little patiance.  It's a habit most people learn, probably because of fear of locking up the front tyre, which in turn maybe comes from riding bicycles ealier in life, where front brakes in gravel was certain death, but rear brake was wahay fun.

You are right about being a habit rather than a natural reaction but I don't think it is the result of bicycle riding because most bicycles use hand brakes front and rear. It is more likely the result of years of driving cars and most people brake cars with their right leg. It doesn't help that it is so easy to lockup the rear brake with the right leg. Can you retrain yourself? Practice helps a lot but you will never know for sure until the next "panic" situation occurs. I do a very good job of reaching for the front brake but it is still very difficult not to stomp on the rear brake. ABS is great for peace of mind.

 

[Shadowfax]

Hammer the rear brake all you want - it won't lock unless you pull the clutch in.

If you're off the throttle, even the FJR has a little engine braking to contribute, forget the clutch until you've slowed down a little and you'll never lock the rear brake.

Smooth is the key, practice your shifting and off-throttle/on-brake transitions until your passanger doesn't notice you doing anything.

Again, I'll be at CLASS at Road America in June and Barber in October if anyone want to come out and get some riding lessons from Reg Pridmore and his merry band.

Group discounts available (see site) and all you have to do is pay for the classes at the same time (they don't have to be same class, people, etc)

Regarding the comment about my line - when you have less ground clearance than everyone else you need to be very careful with your lines and suspension travel to keep from dragging things.