Riding Tips to share.

[Silver Penguin]

After talking to MANY riders who have decades in the saddle, after taking the Basic Rider course with MSF.
They all learned, and were better riders as a result.

John

Point taken John. I was perhaps making the mistaken assumption that ALL riders had taken the MSF basic course at some time or other. I do agree that everyone can continue to learn, if they are willing.

Jill

PS I took the BRC when I returned to riding, several years ago. Since then, I have taken it at least four more times, and watched it many, many more times.

 

[MotorSWATCop]

I don't intend to hijack this thread and don't mean to be a smart a-s, but what safety advantage is there in being able to make a slow sharp turn? How many riders are killed doing this manuver? Is MSF spending valuable time on a technique that at worst results in scratched chrome?
Phil

It's called being a "complete" rider. Being able to maneuver at slow speeds comes in very handy when the elderly lady backs out of a parking space and you have to avoid in stead of stop. Also, being able to make a 90 degree turn from a stop comes in handy when you are about to be slammed by the cell phone using idiot that does not notice traffic stopped in front of him. My slow speed skills have saved me more than a little skin.

 

[Orient_Express]

I don't see any advantage in you taking a basic MSF class at this point but have you looked into the Experienced Rider Course? Check out the MSF website for more details.

Jill

After talking to MANY riders who have decades in the saddle, after taking the Basic Rider course with MSF.

They all learned, and were better riders as a result.

just my 2 cents

John

I agree 100%

I've been riding for 40 years. Experience has taught me a lot, but taking the Basic MSF class explained to me the "why" you do things, like straighten up the bike before trying to brake hard in a turn. I'd recommend the course for anyone... Plus, we all had a ball with the instructors. I have since done the Experienced Rider's Course and plan on taking it again about every two years or so.

 

[kjc625]

NO FRONT BRAKE.

Do Not touch that front brake level what so ever. Slow riding = Never use your front brake.

Use the Front brake only when your wheel is pointing straight forward.

Jim

P.S Let me clarify for the people who just jumped onto this thread. We are talking about very slow speed. Walking speed like sub 5 mph speed.

During U turn, sharp 90 degree turns, S turns, the front brake is not your friend. Learn to use clutch, rear brake and throttle as a team in very slow riding technique.

 

[kjc625]

Well I helped a friend of mine with slow riding techniques. He just bought a used Electra Glide with lots of chrome works and was scared to make tight turns. He did not want to drop that expensive bike. So he called me to help him with the slow riding techniques.
Thanks everyone for supporting your police agency.

JIM

Sorry I can't make the ride, but I wish you well, and hope that lots of $$ are raised for the worthy cause.

Now, I have a question for you (and anyone else who cares to chime in with a suggestion). It regards slow speed skills, particularly the U-turn box. I have tried, and tried and tried again and just cannot do it. Not even close!

This last week, I was counseled out from my MSF coach training class when I failed the riding skills test, on that darned box, then making another stupid mistake because I was upset about the box.

I'm making exaggerated head turn, with my head and eyes up. I'm slipping the clutch and dragging the rear brake. I'm counterweighting in the turns. Practice, practice and practice some more and the frustration level grows.

I believe that my arms are too short to turn the bars fully. I'm unable to use the full lock on the steering. Most of my practice has been done on little MSF bikes because I'm afraid to drop the FJR. Yesterday, I spent an hour or so on my Ninja 650 and still couldn't do it.

Suggestions?

Jill

Jill I am 5'06" with 29" inseam. I am shorter than average American male. So this is what I do.

I seat closer to the gas tank and adjust my body position.

I turn my head and look ahead. Not looking down.

#1 problem of FJR owner. = I am afraid to drop my bike.

Answer

Go buy a very used Honda Shadow 250 or old Kawi KZ1000P police bike.

KZ1000P is recommended, because, it has similar weight, same clutch, very small turning radius. ($1000.00)

Or

Find guys like me who offers personal lesson. One on One practice using my bike.

Jim

 

[taberah]

I sorta figured you would all support that... I guess I was looking for a reason to take a Sunday off and learn the hows (and "whys") of riding. Sounds like the basic may be a little below skill level... but I have been on a cruiser until two months ago when i got my '03 FJR... I'm sure that wasn't good for me. I've learned a lot in those two months by being on a "real" bike.

Rent-a-minister... I hear they're short on music ministers - that might be a problem. I'm not a preacher... just a singer and player (guitar) (the "older" generation calls us "song leaders"). B) Anyway...

Thanks for the input on taking the course... I was thinking of asking for a ticket there for my birthday at then end of May. Maybe I can find one close to home. Anyone know the MSF website off the top o' the head?

BC

 

[kjc625]

I don't intend to hijack this thread and don't mean to be a smart a-s, but what safety advantage is there in being able to make a slow sharp turn? How many riders are killed doing this manuver? Is MSF spending valuable time on a technique that at worst results in scratched chrome?
Phil

First of all, I have no connection with MSF what so ever. I am a rider."Period"

I believe in good riding technique to better my everyday riding experience.

Well if you live in out of no where town and no traffics, you don't need slow riding techniques.

However, most of my riding buddies and I live in urban town with many many cars around us. Average turning radius is about 2 lane width. You go to LA sometime and tried to make an U turn in 2 lane width. There's your sign. :lol:

Slow sharp turn = total attention to acomplish safe turn.

When was the last time you went to full lock turn to make an u turn or 90 degree turn from stop in gas station?

I witnessed so many riders walk their bikes in gas stations. It doesn't look good and I don't like pushing a heavy bike from the side.

I got a bad back and I prefer to ride it instead of pushing it.

Anyway, nothing to lose to learn to ride slow.

Jim

 

[zorkler]

alot of good stuff . the bike goes were your head is pointed all the time

 

[Silver Penguin]

Find guys like me who offers personal lesson. One on One practice using my bike.
Jim

I guess I'll just have to ride on over to Santa Clarita, to accept your offer of personal lessons. I'm 5'2" with a 26" inseam. My usual riding position for either bike is sitting partially on the tank. My FJR has risers and is lowered by 3/4" and I do OK with it in the majority of situations. In parking lots, I sometimes have to push the bike into the position I want it. Usually, I'm able to park the bike with a view to riding it out.

DH and I talked about a second bike for me. I wanted a 250cc beater bike that I could drop without fear. He knew that I had fallen in love the the Ninja 650R, and suprised me with a brand new one for Christmas. What a sweetheart! But, the bike only has a couple of thousand on the clock and is pristine. Who would want to risk dropping that?

Jill

 

[madmike2]

I sorta figured you would all support that... I guess I was looking for a reason to take a Sunday off and learn the hows (and "whys") of riding. Sounds like the basic may be a little below skill level... but I have been on a cruiser until two months ago when i got my '03 FJR... I'm sure that wasn't good for me. I've learned a lot in those two months by being on a "real" bike.
Rent-a-minister... I hear they're short on music ministers - that might be a problem. I'm not a preacher... just a singer and player (guitar) (the "older" generation calls us "song leaders"). B) Anyway...

Thanks for the input on taking the course... I was thinking of asking for a ticket there for my birthday at then end of May. Maybe I can find one close to home. Anyone know the MSF website off the top o' the head?

BC

Google is your friend: MSF. You might also purchase some books like Lee Park's "Total Control, or David Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling" and "More Proficient Motorcycling". Read and assimilate...then practice, practice, practice. One book you read can save your soul, these others can save your hide.

 

[kjc625]

Find guys like me who offers personal lesson. One on One practice using my bike.
Jim

I guess I'll just have to ride on over to Santa Clarita, to accept your offer of personal lessons. I'm 5'2" with a 26" inseam. My usual riding position for either bike is sitting partially on the tank. My FJR has risers and is lowered by 3/4" and I do OK with it in the majority of situations. In parking lots, I sometimes have to push the bike into the position I want it. Usually, I'm able to park the bike with a view to riding it out.

DH and I talked about a second bike for me. I wanted a 250cc beater bike that I could drop without fear. He knew that I had fallen in love the the Ninja 650R, and suprised me with a brand new one for Christmas. What a sweetheart! But, the bike only has a couple of thousand on the clock and is pristine. Who would want to risk dropping that?

Jill

Just look for really simple used honda shadow 250. They are simple and easy to adopt to everyday ride.

I will post next private lesson dates soon. My bike need minor service to get healthy again.

Jim

 

[Bananas!]

I don't intend to hijack this thread and don't mean to be a smart a-s, but what safety advantage is there in being able to make a slow sharp turn? How many riders are killed doing this manuver? Is MSF spending valuable time on a technique that at worst results in scratched chrome?
Phil

Its a matter of control. Many instructors will tell you that if you can control your bike at slow speeds then you can (should, might, may) be in control at higher speeds. High speed requires speed/distance perception but the control inputs are the habits they are trying to develop.

The idea of being able to control your bike at "parking lot" speeds means that you are familiar with the control mechanisms that cause the bike to move. Of course, you are not going to practice counter-steering in a parking lot, but many of us ride in places that require a modicum of steering challenges in sub-45 mph and sub-25 mph situations.

IMO, the "control" oriented classes are leaning toward making riders focus on "what" they are doing. Hopefully that will translate into making better riders on the road. So MSF, Lee Parks, Ride Like A Pro, etc. are providing a much needed skill-set/mind-set program. The Streetmasters course never exceeds 45 mph, and there are many laps at 25 mph and "pad" exercises before one is allowed to circle at 45 mph. Repitition of proper techniques should manifest itself in good road riding habits.

Of course, high speed riding should be practiced at a supervised track day.

 

[Toecutter]

INVITATION TO ALL SO CAL Riders.On June 23rd Saturday, LAPD Newton division is holding 3rd Richardo Lizarraga Memorial Ride.

Officer Lizarraga was a good partner of mine and he died in line of duty while saving his partner and citizens of LA.

I currently building a FJR1300A police theme bike at Rock and Roll paint shop in Orange to honor Officer Lizarraga.

Please join me and other Officers from all over the State to celebrate his life and honor his dedication to protect and to serve.

Location: Laidlaw Harley Davidson Dealership.

Time: 8AM registration.

Riding Course: Laidlaw to Sage Brush Cantina in Camarillo.

Entry fee: Will be posted later

I will post more information later on.

Thanks to Jim's tips, I actually did my first full-lock u-turn last night! Practice is the key!

I'll try to make the scene for your brother's ride. Be sure and post the info in the "California info exchange" section!

 

[CraigRegs]

I would have to ask this...(pretty much knowing what you will all say)... what advantages are there for someone like me who's been riding for 5+ years in taking an MSF course (or the like)? Trial and error teaches well and I've thought of going to a class many times but never could justify the expense (plus, as a minister, I'm always working on Sundays and most classes are Saturday and Sunday)...
Any thoughts?

BC

I've taken the basic MSF twice. And the first time was after 10 years of riding. I was surprised to find how much of what I thought I knew was just plain wrong. Practicing by trial and error means you're likely practicing errors, whether you know it or not. I agree with those who way it's about developing a skill set. Spend the money. It's an investment you won't regret. And your congregation should appreciate the fact that you're increasing your chances of being around to serve them.

Craig

 

[kjc625]

INVITATION TO ALL SO CAL Riders.On June 23rd Saturday, LAPD Newton division is holding 3rd Richardo Lizarraga Memorial Ride.

Officer Lizarraga was a good partner of mine and he died in line of duty while saving his partner and citizens of LA.

I currently building a FJR1300A police theme bike at Rock and Roll paint shop in Orange to honor Officer Lizarraga.

Please join me and other Officers from all over the State to celebrate his life and honor his dedication to protect and to serve.

Location: Laidlaw Harley Davidson Dealership.

Time: 8AM registration.

Riding Course: Laidlaw to Sage Brush Cantina in Camarillo.

Entry fee: Will be posted later

I will post more information later on.

Thanks to Jim's tips, I actually did my first full-lock u-turn last night! Practice is the key!

I'll try to make the scene for your brother's ride. Be sure and post the info in the "California info exchange" section!

Congrats.

I always thought that kawi kz1000p had really good ergo for turning, but that went out the door after getting FJRer.

Initially, the handle bars were too far down for short guy like me, but after having the Heli bar, everything changed.

I can turn FJRer much easiler than old Kawi or BMW. Constant throttle, good clutch and smooth swing on the handle bars made the job really easy.

I posted the officer's memorial ride in the California info exchange section.

Thanks for the upcoming participation.

Jim

 

[Flyguy]

What is the size of the "Box" being referred to? Is it relative to the bike used?

 

[IndianaTom]

I would have to ask this...(pretty much knowing what you will all say)... what advantages are there for someone like me who's been riding for 5+ years in taking an MSF course (or the like)? Trial and error teaches well and I've thought of going to a class many times but never could justify the expense (plus, as a minister, I'm always working on Sundays and most classes are Saturday and Sunday)...
Any thoughts?

BC

I took the MSF beginner course in 1990, and i'd been riding street bikes since the early 80's. I was a young punk, and didn't expect to get anything out of it, but it was required to be able to ride the bike on base (USAF). I learned a good bit, and had alot more confidence than before I took it.

Granted, the first half of my course was "this is the clutch lever, you pull it with your left hand", "This is how you mount a bike", "Sit on the bike, and your partner will push you about 20 feet, use the brakes gently to stop". But the last half of the course is definitely worth the time for anyone that hasn't been.

Besides, some insurance companies will give you price break when you present the course completion card.

 

[kjc625]

What is the size of the "Box" being referred to? Is it relative to the bike used?

Most of civilian course size is 24 feet. Average modern bike turns around 20 feet.

Police course turns at 18 feet.

 

[bmac]

NO FRONT BRAKE.
Do Not touch that front brake level what so ever. Slow riding = Never use your front brake.

Use the Front brake only when your wheel is pointing straight forward.

Jim

Some of the worst advice I have ever heard. Advice like this could get someone killed.

The front brake is your friend, provides 70 to 90% of available braking power, and learning to use it is vital. You do not have to be going straight to use the front brake. There is absolutely no problem with braking while turning although less brake can be used. Watch any motorcycle racing and you will see use of the front brake almost all the way to the apex of the turn. For absolute braking it is best to be fully upright but learning to brake while turning is extremely beneficial.

This is taken from the second link:

[SIZE=10pt]New riders often fear using the front brake, but it should be applied every time a motorcycle is slowed or stopped. Many accidents are caused by riders braking incorrectly. According to the California Highway patrol, locking up the rear brakes is a factor in the majority of motorcycle crashes. [/SIZE]

https://motorcycles.about.com/od/basicsofmo...yclemyths_9.htm

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/motorcycle4.htm

https://www.dps.state.mn.us/mmsc/latest/MMS...=81&scat=25

 

[madmike2]

NO FRONT BRAKE.
Do Not touch that front brake level what so ever. Slow riding = Never use your front brake.

Use the Front brake only when your wheel is pointing straight forward.

Jim

Some of the worst advice I have ever heard. Advice like this could get someone killed.

If one were to interpret kjc625's comments as: "Slow riding (Very slow parking lot speed while turning) = never use the front brake", then he would be absolutely correct. Since the context of his statement was made while discussing slow, parking lot speeds and U-turns, I understood that's what he meant.

If you were to interpret the statement without the context of the conversation and assume he meant slow speed street riding, then you would be correct. Many FJRs have been laid on their side because the rider used the front brake at sub-5 mph parking lot speeds and when the bike (or for that matter, any bike) suddenly stopped with the wheel turned, over they go.

IIRC, at parking lot speeds control is maintained by dragging the rear brake and using the throttle/clutch. But it has been a long time since I've taken a course and I've been wrong before.