Riding Twisties on New 06
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sprint_st
Well-known member
Well I ran about 500 miles of the twistiest roads in the SE today including the Dragon, Cherohala, SC/GA/NC 28 from Walhala, SC to Deals Gap, US178 from SC11 to US64, NC215 and a chunk of the BRP. Upshifts great, single downshift OK, double downs were totally a crap shoot. Hold the clutch in and try a double down and 90% of the time nothing happens. R1 lever should be here on Monday and we'll go from there.
I assume you are swapping out an '06 R1 shift lever? I'm interested in how it works for you as well....
Graham Downunder
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I would suggest that you change oil and filter . Find an oil you like ( many to choose from ). I personally like oils designed for desiels as they can handle higher shear loads ,which is what gearboxes do to oils. People forget the oil used for the engine is asked to work doing in entirelly different enviroment, a gearbox, funny it dose not last .
I would obtain some NUYLON teflon treatment and add it to the oil it realy helps change a sluggish shift into a hot knife threw butter .It is safe for wet clutches and has worked for the last thirty years that I know of in bikes , funny everytime I add it I have to lower the idle . I had an old engine that I added it to and well we watched the Tacho rise from 800 rpm to 1050-1100 rpm. If you cannot get some ,contact me and I will send you some as it's made in Australia.
My Cousin spent over twenty years with Formula One teams ,in europe ,and race teams around the world who could afford him . He put me onto it in the 70's and I also swear by it ,In Ferraria F40's they had overheating problems in the gearboxs in race conditions , they had trouble getting one meeting out of them , added the right NUYLON product and problem soilved Temperature down by about 80 degrees. they got nearly a whole season out of a gearbox instaed of one meeting .
I am about to change the oil in a Suzuki Vstrom, last time I did it ,revs rose by about 100-150 , gearbox was instantly smooth . I added this after about 50 KLms of ridiing after an oil change so it was not new oil that made me have to reduce the idle .
I would obtain some NUYLON teflon treatment and add it to the oil it realy helps change a sluggish shift into a hot knife threw butter .It is safe for wet clutches and has worked for the last thirty years that I know of in bikes , funny everytime I add it I have to lower the idle . I had an old engine that I added it to and well we watched the Tacho rise from 800 rpm to 1050-1100 rpm. If you cannot get some ,contact me and I will send you some as it's made in Australia.
My Cousin spent over twenty years with Formula One teams ,in europe ,and race teams around the world who could afford him . He put me onto it in the 70's and I also swear by it ,In Ferraria F40's they had overheating problems in the gearboxs in race conditions , they had trouble getting one meeting out of them , added the right NUYLON product and problem soilved Temperature down by about 80 degrees. they got nearly a whole season out of a gearbox instaed of one meeting .
I am about to change the oil in a Suzuki Vstrom, last time I did it ,revs rose by about 100-150 , gearbox was instantly smooth . I added this after about 50 KLms of ridiing after an oil change so it was not new oil that made me have to reduce the idle .
sprint_st
Well-known member
Graham,
Never heard of NUYLON but I will check it out. I am converting over to synthetic a bit early, but my suspicion it is not the gearbox itself but the shifter mechanism. It could be teething and just needs to wear a bit or I just got a bad shifter. If the shifter linkage and adjustments doesn't solve the problem, and if I'm right about the shifter it won't, it will be shop time at the dealer.
Never heard of NUYLON but I will check it out. I am converting over to synthetic a bit early, but my suspicion it is not the gearbox itself but the shifter mechanism. It could be teething and just needs to wear a bit or I just got a bad shifter. If the shifter linkage and adjustments doesn't solve the problem, and if I'm right about the shifter it won't, it will be shop time at the dealer.
Duc4Doc
Member
[, BUT, a real big BUT, the shifting flat SUCKED!!!! Some times it would not down shift at all. Some times when I tried to do a double down, nothing happened, sometimes I only got one. I could feel that the shifter was not even trying to engage. I was using the clutch because I was trying to blip shift most of the time. It was totally unpredictable. I have also run into this on fast upshifts but that seems to be going away with age.
I am going to my dealer to discuss this before I start playing with it. Let me say right off the bat, this doesn't feel like any clutch issue, it really feels like shifter issues.
I have had the exact problem with a 2006. The transmission simply would not shift. Both up and down. About 25% of the time initially. I spoke a number of times with my dealer, whom I respect a great deal. I thought I needed a new transmission. He put in synthetic oil, but with no change. He encouraged me to increase the clutch pull length, which did help somewhat, but it was not the way I liked to ride. FINALLY, after 2000 miles it started improving. Now approaching 3000 miles, it is rare to not shift. But in over a dozen bikes, I never had such a painful transmission brake in. I am going to add braided clutch cable to get some slack out.
I am going to my dealer to discuss this before I start playing with it. Let me say right off the bat, this doesn't feel like any clutch issue, it really feels like shifter issues.
I have had the exact problem with a 2006. The transmission simply would not shift. Both up and down. About 25% of the time initially. I spoke a number of times with my dealer, whom I respect a great deal. I thought I needed a new transmission. He put in synthetic oil, but with no change. He encouraged me to increase the clutch pull length, which did help somewhat, but it was not the way I liked to ride. FINALLY, after 2000 miles it started improving. Now approaching 3000 miles, it is rare to not shift. But in over a dozen bikes, I never had such a painful transmission brake in. I am going to add braided clutch cable to get some slack out.
sprint_st
Well-known member
Doc,
Please look at the following rationale and tell me if I'm full of fertilizer or not.
1. When this happens I don't feel anything, I mean nothing.
2. In theory, you don't have to use the clutch to shift up or down.
3. If you pull up and press down again, let the clutch out and then back in, sometimes it works.
4. If you shift one at a time, "most" of the time it works.
IMO, this smells like the shifter mechanism. I haven't looked at the FJR mechanism but most of them are some kind of ratchet affair with notches or something to allow some type of indexing. I don't think anyone since the old X6 Hustler has tried a circular shift patter (going from 6 to 1 got exciting). It just feels like the lever isn't moving the ratcheting mechanism like when a socket wrench just sits between clockwise and counter-clockwise.
Does that make any sense???
atxrider
Well-known member
I was in the hill country this past week and was having the same problems shifting you are describing. When I fully engaged the clutch to downshift, it seemed as though the shifter had not returned from the previous shift...as if it had nowhere to go. Also, when I was taking off from neutral and tried to shift to first, it did the same thing. When I let out the clutch halfway (without any shift action on the shift lever) it would clunk into first. I am going to try the shift linkage adjustment and hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more progress on this one sprint.
Regards,
Davy
sprint_st
Well-known member
I'm not done testing yet but putting on an R1 shifter arm did help a lot but it wasn't right. I switched to synthetic when I returned from that test and readjusted the shift position. It was a tad above the mark on the frame and I have moved it to just above the center but have yet to test it. It was much better on the first run but not perfect. It kinda looks like I may have to play with the adjustment to get it right.
i'll be at the east coast fj rally that weekend, in boone, nc, i'll keep an eye out for you's guys.
It may help to not let your RPM's fall too much during the shifting downwards. I think that most of the shifting problems occur when the intended gear dosnt match, or nearly match, the new gears' RPM range. If you are banging down two gear slots in one jump then you are using poor technique and too much time between shifting.
I can get my '05FJR from 5th to 2nd very quickly during hard breaking without missing, if done sequentially.
If you get into too low of a gear and let the clutch out suddenly, you run the risk of breaking the back tire loose and crashing obviously! Ride safe on the street and go to Track days if you feel the need for speed. We dont need any other fallen FJR pilots. :blink:
I can get my '05FJR from 5th to 2nd very quickly during hard breaking without missing, if done sequentially.
If you get into too low of a gear and let the clutch out suddenly, you run the risk of breaking the back tire loose and crashing obviously! Ride safe on the street and go to Track days if you feel the need for speed. We dont need any other fallen FJR pilots. :blink:
RTSR1/FJR
Gort - Klaatu barada nikto!
Your right about an indexing mechanism. You have a shifter ratchet that pulls the shift drum around in a circle to the next detent. Think of it as a toilet paper roll with a star on one end for detents and 3 sets of grooves on the surface for each shift fork pin to ride in. The drum has grooves that go from side to side to move the shift fork, via a pin in the drum, back and forth as it rotates to place the gear on the trans shaft to the proper position. Most of the time its just a matter of the pin wearing into the drum to make a smooth, easy movement. Other times it's premature wear on the shift fork pin and drum that hampers the action of the transmission. Also can be a tight gear on the shaft thats not clearanced correctly and binding up when warm and not allowing the gear to slide easily on the shaft. Shift fork guide bar might be a little tight also. One other thing it could be is a weak detent spring. There's a multitude of things it could be. I say give it some more time to break in, but there comes a time to go in to it. Ref.items 5,6,7,8,10,11 for the parts I talked about (except detent spring). Maybe this gives a better understanding.
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There is nothing magic about the shift lever reference marks on the adjacent panel. They are just reference marks. They are NOT any indication of "being in adjustment" or not. File the reference marks off and forget about them and put the lever where-ever you want it. The shift mechanism could care less where the shift lever is positioned....it just needs to rachet each time and BE FULLY RELEASED each time. With my boots I find I need the lever well above the upper reference mark so as to clear the lever between shifts and not run into a missed shift. Sounds to me like a lot of the complaints from a lot of people are due to the fact that the shift lever is too low for them or their boots (regardles of where the marks might end up) and is just dragging on your boot and not FULLY returning to the neutral/relaxed position that it MUST achieve to get repeative perfect shifts. Riding straight down the road your foot angle is in one place. In the twisties where you are being a naughty boy and hanging off the seat (and not concentrating on clearing the shift lever each time) your foot is likely riding higher and hanging the shift lever. Raise that sucker way up until you have to make a conscious effort to pull up to get a gear and see if the missed shifts go away. Then start lowering it until you are comfortable and don't run into the shifting issues....after you've convinced yourself that it was the shifter position. The trans has no way of knowing you are turning corners so start looking at the operator and/or the operator/shift lever interface instead of the bike for a cure.
The shift lever position is never going to be perfect, BTW. When I go to the strip I have to deliberately move mine down about midway on the reference marks due to the fact that I am sitting and crouching totally differently than normal riding and my boot tips are pointed way more down than in normal riding.
Be sure and pull the shift lever mechanism apart and thoroughly lube each pivot and make SURE it moves freely. It is possible to get the rod ends bound by adjusting the rod and tightening against the rod end (instead of anchoring the link with a wrench) so that the linkage does not move freeely at the extremes of the travel. Several reports on here of "dry" pivots causing dragging levers not returning to the neutral position easily.
The shift lever position is never going to be perfect, BTW. When I go to the strip I have to deliberately move mine down about midway on the reference marks due to the fact that I am sitting and crouching totally differently than normal riding and my boot tips are pointed way more down than in normal riding.
Be sure and pull the shift lever mechanism apart and thoroughly lube each pivot and make SURE it moves freely. It is possible to get the rod ends bound by adjusting the rod and tightening against the rod end (instead of anchoring the link with a wrench) so that the linkage does not move freeely at the extremes of the travel. Several reports on here of "dry" pivots causing dragging levers not returning to the neutral position easily.
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Graham Downunder
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Sprint st If you Pm your address I will see what I can do I may send some direct from Downunder or I have a friend's brother arriving from the States tommorrow fro a ride ,I'll ask him if he can take it back .
I just had an idea while typing this ,I will contact NUYLON here and find out where you can get it ,just were abouts in the states you are?
I just had an idea while typing this ,I will contact NUYLON here and find out where you can get it ,just were abouts in the states you are?
sprint_st
Well-known member
Sorry Jestal, but that is just not substantiated by field data. The marks are references but the service manual says to line up with some screws on a cover plate in front of the the shifter. Mine was 3/4" low and by putting it in line it definitely improved upshifts. Putting the R1 lever on improved the downshifts but I had it a bit high and out of range of the marks. After bringing it back into the range again, shifting improved. Dumped my dino oil prematurely and went to synthetic also helped. It is not hot knife through butter but I think now I'm actually in the 'break in' phase. Let me reemphasize, changing position DID make significant differences. That was determined by "change position", "go for a test ride." These aren't theory, this is what happed. Yes it just may be my bike but that's all I have to go by.
