Road Snakes & Tires

[FJRScorpion]

Hey Guys and Gals,

I'm approaching the first tire change on my FJR, "Whoo Hoo". :yahoo: Although there have been many discussions on tires (justifiably retired to the NEPRT) and even a couple of 'mentions' about the dreaded 'Road Tar Snakes', slipping on them is overwhelmingly my principle street riding problem. I've had several "WTF" slides, (usually riding double) whether cruizing around town or trying to get 'out of town'. On the hottest days, on the worst road, during one of these "WTF" experiences, I've instinctively dropped both feet down expecting the bike to slide out like it would as if on ice, this is while going straight! I would consider this just another motorcycling experience except for the fact that my other bike does not exhibit near this amount of tire slippage, (but its not quite so heavy or powerful either). I have the original Metzlers and though they show no sign of wear at 7000 miles, I'm going to replace them this winter hoping to at least partially alleviate this issue. Is there anyone in a community where sealing the road cracks is very prevalent and who can give me some advice on tire choice, addressing this issue? If there is no clear solution, then I guess I will just opt to purchase one of the 'stickier' tire choices based on the previous forum discussions and assume that it is probably unavoidable. The combined weight of myself and passenger is not more than 330 lbs and I seldom turn this bike aggressively in a corner. It seems anytime the temperature is above 70 or so the snakes become 'slick as snot'.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Scorpion,

I think the general consensus for tires is either the Michelin PR2's or the RoadSmarts. I have the PR2's and on tar snakes with sharp angles, you can get the OH OH moment for a split second. Not sure about how the RoadSmarts fare on these tricky things.

 

[Geezer]

Well, according to Luv2ride I live in 'tar snake city'. :lol:

I know of only two things that you can do:

1) Be aware of the snakes and just ride it out when you start to slide. It can be disconcerting, but as long as you know what's causing it and you are not taken by surprise, you get used to them.

2) Some tires work much better than others on tar snakes. For me, the best yet are the PR2s that I have on the bike now. The worst I can remember for tar snakes were Avon Storms. As your tires age they dry a bit and get even more slippery, so new tires help a lot. So, get out there and use up those tires more quickly. B)

 

[FJRScorpion]

Well, according to Luv2ride I like in 'tar snake city'. :lol:
I know of only two things that you can do:

1) Be aware of the snakes and just ride it out when you start to slide. It can be disconcerting, but as long as you know what's causing it and you are not taken by surprise, you get used to them.

2) Some tires work much better than others on tar snakes. For me, the best yet are the PR2s that I have on the bike now. The worst I can remember for tar snakes were Avon Storms. As your tires age they dry a bit and get even more slippery, so new tires help a lot. So, get out there and use up those tires more quickly. B)

Yes, I think you're on to something. They seem to be more slippery than I remember when new!

 

[NMRoadRunner]

I went with the Metzlers again on this last tire change I think they grip just fine wet or shine and the side wall construction works the best for me as we do alot of 2 up and loaded heavy! I haven't tried the Roadsmarts yet, but they would be my second choice.

 

[FJRScorpion]

I went with the Metzlers again on this last tire change I think they grip just fine wet or shine and the side wall construction works the best for me as we do alot of 2 up and loaded heavy! I haven't tried the Roadsmarts yet, but they would be my second choice.

I can't say that I'm disappointed with the Metzlers, it's just that I don't know how much better (or worse) it can be. The Roadsmarts and PR's are both tempting. :dribble: All I know is that I've got to try something different. I've actually pulled over to the side to inspect my rear tire twice this past weekend suspecting that my rear tire was leaking air when in fact it was at 40 psi. :blink:

 

[Grumpy]

I can assure you that an ME 880 on tar snakes, off camber, on a cold wet day is a hand full!!

jim

 

[phil]

Any tire will slip on the sons-of-*******. I was chasing my older son thru some twisties in S. Dakota, back in July. My new PR2 rear nearly made me soil my pants, and the gonads returned to their pre-puberty home for a few seconds.

 

[HaulinAshe]

TSWF - Tire Snake Wrangling Factor; The tire's ability to effectively snag a tire snake behind its poisonous head and render the serpent tame, long enough to eject it from behind the traveling motorcycle.

It's almost entirely compound related, since most tire snakes lack enough height for things like tread design or belt construction to affect the TSWF.

Softer compounds do better on tire snakes than harder compounds. And as pointed out above, the older a tire age (especially after being run up to temp a few times) the harder the compound tends to be.

I don't yet have emperical data for the compound hardness of the Mich PR2, but it won't be much longer. I prefer to test tires after 500 miles since some brands seem to "cure" or "age" more than others during the first 500 miles.

Based on testing and semi-scientific evaluation thus far, I would rate the TSWF of some popular FJR tires as...

10 - Track quality rubber (dry conditions of course)

9 - Street sport rubber (Corsa, Dunlop qualifiers...)

8 - Pirelli Diablo Strada, Metzeler Z6, Dunlop RoadSmarts

7 - Mich PR2, Bridgestone BT-021

6 - Conti Road Attacks, Shinko Ravens

5 - Metzeler ME880 (especially bad in wet and/or cold)

4 - I won't pull out of the driveway with anything I believe rates a 4 or less.

 

[Scab]

Perhaps the same advice Jeff gave me would be in order. Get soft tires. You will buy more, but it's cheaper than the $57,000 hospital bill I got last year.

 

[Bounce]

Tar Snakes (AKA: Plasticized Crack Sealant) has long been a known road hazard to motorcyclists. At one time I had documents from FHWA that detailed meetings between a then-AMA Rep, the PCS manufacturer(s), and the higher levels of FHWA where the use of PCS were noted as dangerous. FHWA and the mfgr of the sealant went to great lengths to remind state DOTs about the proper application of the sealant (documents included copies of mfgr usage guidelines that included avoiding over spray, that it not be used as a large patch replacement, and that it only be used on cracks that run across (not with) the flow of traffic, etc.). I had copies of faxes that were sent to all 5 state DOTs in FHWAs Region 6 (OK, LA, NM, AR, TX) which included references to these guidelines. The documents also included acknowledgements from all but TX.

I obtained these documents in the very late 1990s (which dated from some time before) and forwarded them to AMA in an attempt to motivate them to action on this issue. I never heard back from them and Plasticized Crack Sealant continues to be used counter to mfgr recommendation.

My assumption is that states figure the cost of legal action for wrongful deaths is less than the savings they see from using it beyond its original intent.

 

[FJRScorpion]

Tar Snakes (AKA: Plasticized Crack Sealant) has long been a known road hazard to motorcyclists. At one time I had documents from FHWA that detailed meetings between a then-AMA Rep and the higher levels of FHWA where the use of PCS were noted as dangerous. FHWA and the mfgr of the sealant went to great lengths to remind state DOTs about the proper application of the sealant (avoid over spray, don't use as a large patch replacement, only use on cracks that run across (not with) the flow of traffic, etc.). Faxes were sent to all 5 state DOTs in FHWAs Region 6 (OK, LA, NM, AR, TX) and all but TX faxed back acknowledgment of receipt.
I obtained these documents in the very late 1990s and forwarded them to AMA in an attempt to motivate them to action on this issue. I never heard back from them and Plasticized Crack Sealant continues to be used counter to mfgr recommendation.

My assumption is that states figure the cost of legal action for wrongful deaths is less than the savings they see from using it beyond its original intent.

This is very interesting. In my town we have some city streets where the tarring is almost on every square foot. I have never seen evidence of any attempt to apply the tar in a 'mostly' crossways direction. <_< I believe that tarring the cracks is one of the town's many summer programs to employ returning college kids. They probably get minimal training. Seems to me that a few years back, I had seen them sitting on the tailgate of a city pickup truck with a sprayer-wand trying to reverse follow the cracks filling them in. I'm going to ask the municipal engineer about the policy. :angry2:

 

[HaulinAshe]

Tar Snakes (AKA: Plasticized Crack Sealant) has long been a known road hazard to motorcyclists. At one time I had documents from FHWA that detailed meetings between a then-AMA Rep and the higher levels of FHWA where the use of PCS were noted as dangerous. FHWA and the mfgr of the sealant went to great lengths to remind state DOTs about the proper application of the sealant (avoid over spray, don't use as a large patch replacement, only use on cracks that run across (not with) the flow of traffic, etc.). Faxes were sent to all 5 state DOTs in FHWAs Region 6 (OK, LA, NM, AR, TX) and all but TX faxed back acknowledgment of receipt.
I obtained these documents in the very late 1990s and forwarded them to AMA in an attempt to motivate them to action on this issue. I never heard back from them and Plasticized Crack Sealant continues to be used counter to mfgr recommendation.

My assumption is that states figure the cost of legal action for wrongful deaths is less than the savings they see from using it beyond its original intent.

Bounce, you are now my hero! Anybody that would voluntarily get involved with AMA and DOT at the same time deserves one big AttaBoy.

I guess the worst thing is that it's our surviving family members that need to know about the rampant misuse of PCS by so many DOTs. I'll have a hard time getting my hands on any documentation from the ditch, hospital bed, or worse!

I lived in very southern TX (aka Northern Mexico) for a couple years. In the summer afternoons, you can watch the Tar Snakes bubble.

 

[lnewlf]

The exit 8 connector to freebie I90 near Albany,NY was patched with snakes-there were so many bike accidents that first they posted warning signs for bikes-then finally repaved the whole thing..guess DOT got tired of lawsuits.. At this point I don't know if it is the bike or the tires but the FJR seems to skate worse that my previous bikes[front only]..it also seems to have more road feedback from the front end, a good thing..

 

[MartyA]

I've had big and small bikes since the 60's up to my current FZ-1 and FJR. All have been disrespected by tar snakes. In the cold they are slippery, in the heat they are slippiery. List all the tires ever made I have probably had them at one time or another, if there was any difference in them on tar snakes I never noticed. Even Sally can sometimes feel the squirm even on a straight stretch and she'll give an Oh SH*T! for me. I have followed folks who seemed to handle them better than I can, as Geezer says, maybe they can 'ride them out' but they always give me fits. I won't even test them, when I see them I just slow way down in the curves. I hate tar snakes!

 

[Scoobyvroom]

The worst thing about tar snakes is if they are fresh. I came home one day with the back end all over, couldn't figure out why. Turned a corner and saw a road crew putting down snakes. Stop and talked to the guy that was spraying stuff on the freshly laid tar. Said it was a mix of water and soap so it dosen't get pealed up by passing cars. For the next week they were slick as hell, until in rained...

Scooby

 

[FJRScorpion]

Thanks all... It seems like there is no real clear choice of tire to avoid these demons so kind of using HaulinAshe's list I think I'll go with RoadSmarts and call it a day.

 

[motorcycle-ed]

Can't go wrong with the Roadsmarts...well named. Dunlop did GOOD! I had them at EOM and they did the job!

Ed

 

[rockhead]

I replaced my original Metzlers with Roadsmarts will in Colorado. I love them on the curves. They are a little less stable on the slab, but not too bad. I haven't noticed any difference with tar snakes.