Rub Marks on ES Fork

[K_Flyer]

There are some marks on the top of one of my ES forks. The marks only show when the bike is on the center stand, they are at the very top of the RH fork tube. Tried to post a photo but doesn't seem to work. Marks are narrow brown, look like scratches. They are very narrow, a mm or less each and 10 to 12 marks. They don't really show up well in the photo, especially when stored on Dropbox. Dealer says they are "normal wear of the bushing." I don't buy it. As "normal wear" they are not covered by warranty. 35k miles and the fork bushings wear out! Anyone seen these before?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h79fcc558r5vfea/20190418_134715%280%29.jpg

Forgot to mention that they replaced a leaky seal on this fork maybe 5k miles ago.

 

[RossKean]

Do they rub off with a little solvent (mineral spirits or brake cleaner on a rag)?

If you run a fingernail over them, can you feel anything?

Don't think I would worry about it too much unless there is actual damage to the fork tube (assuming there is no hydraulic fluid leak).

 

[HotRodZilla]

It looks like you have a little oil residue there and the movement of the forks just kind of spread it. So, I have the same basic question as Ross: Have you tried cleaning it off? I'm betting some brake cleaner on a rag gets it off.

 

[Abercrombie FJR]

I had some similar looking wear marks on my Beta after I noticed that I had tweaked my forks out of alignment. I would check to insure that your forks are properly aligned. I'm guessing the the forks were replaced slightly off, and aren't in perfect alignment causing stiction and wear marks. Stiction can cause the fork seals to melt leaving discolored marks like that.

 

[K_Flyer]

I did try to remove the marks with solvent on a paper towel but that made no difference. The marks are very sharp and well-defined. Don't feel any scratches on the tube. Definitely does not look like oil smearing. After 600 more miles since I took the photo, all the old marks are still there and a few more have appeared. Bike goes in for service tomorrow.

Can forks get misaligned when changing the front tire? The dealer installed new tires about 1500 miles ago. I've been wondering why I did not see the marks when I was cleaning up the bike this spring before I took it in for new tires.

Any comment on the dealer's "normal wear of the bushing"?

 

[Abercrombie FJR]

I did try to remove the marks with solvent on a paper towel but that made no difference. The marks are very sharp and well-defined. Don't feel any scratches on the tube. Definitely does not look like oil smearing. After 600 more miles since I took the photo, all the old marks are still there and a few more have appeared. Bike goes in for service tomorrow.
Can forks get misaligned when changing the front tire? The dealer installed new tires about 1500 miles ago. I've been wondering why I did not see the marks when I was cleaning up the bike this spring before I took it in for new tires.

Any comment on the dealer's "normal wear of the bushing"?

The forks can absolutely get misaligned when changing a front tire. There is two ways to hold the axle while tightening the front 22 mm axle nut. One is to install a 19 mm hex head in the right side of the axle to keep if from spinning while tightening the axle nut. The other is the way will likely cause fork alignment issues if not done properly. The other way is if they tighten the pinch bolts on the right side to hold the axle from spinning while torquing the 22 mm axle nut. This method can pull the two fork bottoms together causing fork alignment issues and stiction. When you use the front pinch bolt to hold the axle you will see the fork side out after torquing the axle nut when you loosen the right side pinch bolts. Either way you tighten the front axle nut, its a good idea to loosen the right side pinch bolts, compress the forks a few times with the front brake on and re-torque the right side pinch bolts. Bouncing the front suspension before snugging up the pinch bolts will align the fork tube giving you the best ride, and least fork seal and bushing wear.

 

[RossKean]

^^^

Agreed! Seems quite possible that there is a misalignment.

I always torque front end using procedure as described by Abercrombie FJR. I suspect that some cases of front end wobble are also attributable to this.

 

[mcatrophy]

... Bike goes in for service tomorrow.
Can forks get misaligned when changing the front tire? The dealer installed new tires about 1500 miles ago. ...

Any comment on the dealer's "normal wear of the bushing"?

I agree that changing the tyre can end up with misaligned forks, and that such misalignment could easily lead to your marks.

Bear in mind that a normal service would not include removing the wheel. You need to ask your service people to slacken the pinch bolts and re-torque them according to the Service Manual (the procedure includes the "bounce" suggested above).

If it's of any help, below is the proper procedure.

(Click on image for larger view)



Any comment I might have on the "normal wear of the bushing" remark would need a **** warning.

 

[Fred W]

If the bike is on the centerstand in the photo, that would mean they are fully extended. The discolored area would normally not see the fork seal very often during operation, but it would see the lower bushing a lot. My guess would be that is some of the Teflon coating that has worn off the bushing and deposited on the inner tube somehow. May be due to previously mentioned fork misalignment.

You also mentioned that someone recently changed a fork seal on that fork leg. I wonder if they heated the outer (upper) fork leg to facilitate removing the seal. If they did, and they were over zealous with the heat gun they may have partially melted that Teflon coating?

Not the end of the world if you can polish it off the inner legs surface. Try using a little metal polish on a clean rag and see if the shmootz will come off with that light abrasive.

May as well also loosen, bounce and retorque the lower pinch bolts on that fork leg just to cover all the bases. As you loosen the pinch bolts watch to see if the leg springs outward on the axle shaft. If it does youll have your smoking gun.

 

[mcatrophy]

... May as well also loosen, bounce and retorque the lower pinch bolts on that fork leg just to cover all the bases. As you loosen the pinch bolts watch to see if the leg springs outward on the axle shaft. If it does youll have your smoking gun.

A quick visual check for alignment would be to see if the right hand end of the axle is flush with the fork, as mentioned in the instructions I linked to above. Any obvious lack of flushness [is that a word?] is a definite indicator of bad alignment.

 

[K_Flyer]

I will not get into a rant about the quality and personnel of Yamaha dealers. (Hmm No appropriate emoji.) You either get kids who are completely incompetent to the point of breaking a fairing or else the guy with "30 years of experience so I know that the factory manual has the process wrong and I can see by looking that the forks are in perfect alignment."

The shop (PCP) was still on the "normal wear" kick however they did contact Yamaha about it (no response yet) and document the issue in case there is a warranty claim in the future. I will follow the suggestions here and see if it makes a difference to follow the factory procedure. I will say they made a thorough check of the bike and found some ham-handed issues with the previous service. (Damaged heat shield, missing fasteners...) They also have an improved service checklist and data sheet since the last time I was there over a year ago. Prices for service have also escalated a lot in that time. Too bad that severe arthritis makes self-service not an option. (Emphasized for those who may miss it)

 

[Fred W]

No disrespect to you, but honestly when the day comes that I am no longer able or willing to service my own (and friends) motorcycles and needed to rely on a dealership to do maintenance, that would be the day that I move on to other interests in my life (of which there are numerous).

I just dont get the concept that motorcycling is SO important in your life, and yet you arent willing to dedicate the relatively small amount of time and effort to learning how to make them right.

Its the same thing in the musical world where I see people spending not insignificant amounts of money to let some cretin set up their guitar. It is one if the simplest things you can do (ever hear that before?) and makes you one with your instrument (how about that one?).

Being involved in something doesnt just mean that you become giddy when you use it. It also means you are sufficiently involved that you want to dedicate the time and attention to learn how to do it right and not screw the proverbial pooch. I dont have a lot of compassion for those who get screwed over by shop mechanics because of these ideas.

Yeah, Im a *******. Deal with it.

 

[dcarver]

Yeah, Im a *******. Deal with it.
:rofl:

 

[K_Flyer]

Fred,

You may have missed the point that wrenching is not an option for me. Arthritis in both thumbs greatly limits what I can do. However, I am able to tune my own ukulele and guitars.

I guess that, to me, motorcycling is important enough to pay someone to do the things I cannot so I can continue the part I am able to enjoy.

Maybe you are a *******. However, your lineage is not my problem!

 

[Fred W]

With that advanced arthritis maybe you should look into those auto tuners?

 

[Canadian FJR]

With that advanced arthritis maybe you should look into those auto tuners?

Thats not a ******* comment, thats just pure *******. Why did you feel the need to say something like that.

Grow up.

Canadian FJR

 

[Fred W]

It was a joke. Nobody uses those auto tuners. They are a ridiculous gimmick. Im sure Kflyer knew that.

Believe me, I get what having arthritis is like. It sucks. Its why I had to have my left hip replaced last summer, which wasnt all that much fun.

 

[K_Flyer]

Question for all you technical hotshots. If a front axle bolt is torqued to 91 NM, what torque should be required to loosen it? Ditto for pinch bolts torqued to 21 NM.

 

[FJRay]

Do we get a gold star for the correct answer???

It will usually take a bit more to break it loose if properly torqued.