Second Battery??

[kaitsdad]

OK- something has been 'tickling' my widdle brain for the past week or so. At the risk of very publicly displaying my LACK of ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING knowledge - here goes !!

(asbestos suit on - fire extinguisher at the ready .....)

In a past life I would run crews installing telecommunications systems - which on the larger systems would include battery backup plants. These would be rated at "hours of backup" - essentially, more batteries = more time.

I think we're all aware of the limits imposed by the charging system on the FJR. Essentially, if the wattage draw is greater than the output of the alternator, the battery will be discharged, leading to a situation known as "Dark and Cold". (This is BAD :bad: we don't want this)

And so here is my Ignorant Question: If a second battery is installed, wired in parallel, wouldn't this delay the inevitable BAD thing - essentially giving more time to discharge? (Ducking at this point)

So - Whut duz u all think bout' this? (Please be gentle - I'm still waiting and have nothing else to do)

 

[Bounce]

It would increase the pool of available electrons you had at your disposal once you went into a discharge mode. As with any container; the larger it is, the longer it takes to empty (if the rate of "drain" is constant). Conversely, the time it takes to refill the pool once you get back into charging mode, is also increased.

The end result is that you eventually have to address what is causing the discharge mode or, regardless of the size of your container, you will eventually be in the dark. Your first iteration into discharge of a 2 battery system would appear to give you an advantage. But subsequent interations might not be as forgiving unless you spent a proportionally longer amount of time topping off the dual battery system once you discharged it.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Better to monitor your charging system, notice when it approaches a state of dischard and start shutting off non-critical accessories until you're back into the charging zone (with a safety margin, IMO).

 

[markjenn]

I agree with Bounce.

Installing a 2nd battery (which are heavy, hard to locate, and require significant engineering of brackets, hold downs, etc.) to address the issue of using too much current for the available alternator output is like taking out a loan to address a problem where you spend more than you make. You just postpone the inevitable.

Monitoring the charging system in the FJR is really pretty trivial - you just install a voltmeter. Then you turn off stuff when you're using too much. This is the best solution (or wait for the inevitable larger alternator to get here).

- Mark

 

[Ignacio]

I don't know the exact calculation, but I think adding a second battery would mean something like: Instead of running out of juice an hour after it turns dark when you turn up the Widder.......you run out of juice two hours after it turns dark.

Is the extra hour of warmth worth the addition an hassle of the battery? How about if you still have 6 hours of coldness before it gets warm again?

I think no. I think it's easier to manage watts through efficiency like HID lights and monitoring voltmeters.

 

[torch]

If done using a battery isolation switch and diodes in the charging line, it's not a bad idea. In that way, one battery (for starting and running the bike) would be prevented from discharge and the second would be available for the farkles; making the whole power management system fully automatic -- the light goes out when the battery goes dead.

 

[twowheelnut]

Hmmmm, I have extra batteries on the ole bass boat for the trolling motor...

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I think the CHPs BMW R1100RT-Ps had/have 2 batteries? I'm not sure of their effectiveness, tho.....

Maybe someone from Kaliforny can address this?

 

[daviddowns2000]

An advantage of a 2-battery system would be that if the farkle bank is drained, the starting battery is still good. Start batteries use very few amp-hours and usually need only a short recharge time. A deep-cycle farkle battery might be a really nice farkle, assuming the issues of location, charging system, etc. could be worked out...the devil is in the details.

 

[RonBB]

Agree with Bounce. There was a thread at one time that discussed some of the overseas police FJR's using a second battery as well. I believe it was noted that at night when not in use the units were placed on a smart trickle charger as well.

 

[kaitsdad]

All, I want to thank you for your input. :bigeyes:

I've been known to think outside the box on occasion, which usually leads to a display of complete idiocy - (my 12 year old still thinks this is 'cool')

And I simply can't let this rest.

OK - so second battery idea isn't necessesarily new - they're used in marine and diesel applications, etc. The design is out there. So - that being said, I've tried to come up with a way to add a second battery that will provide necessary wattage for whatever lighting system, heated clothing, microwave oven, etc., you may have on your bike.

So - here goes - (fair warning - I'm hijacking my own post - (can I do that?))

First, you obtain one of the really cool Uni-Go trailers from New Zealand - I like this one:

These are available with the appropriate kit to install on the FJR.

Next, you need the batteries - let's see ........... Hmmmm......

This looks good -

Specifications:

6-2 Volt Cells (12v) Absolyte AGM Battery

1300 amps/8hrs Sealed, Maintenance Free Absorbed Glass Matt Battery

The 12 volt battery bank is 1400 lbs and is 38” wide, 18” high and 24” deep.

I would imagine that a few modifications to the Uni-Go might be requried, and perhaps a wee bit of buttressing to improve the torque failure forces on the trailer hitch - but once the cells were installed in the trailer, just add in some wire, and it's good to go !! Easily an extra two or three weeks of farkle juice.

And now that I think about it, it might be a good idea to upgrade the brakes.

So - do you think Warchild would be willing to do the 'test farkle' on this one? Imagine being able to pop popcorn in your microwave during the IronButt... or whip up the old Bass-o-Matic full of Pink Squirrels ! You could power a particle beam to clear the road of forest rats - (see - this is a safety improvement!) Lots of things you could do with this!!

Comments?

Ideas are welcome !!

So - should I seek a patent? Whaddya Think ???

:thumbup: :coolio:

 

[Rogue]

All, I want to thank you for your input. :bigeyes:
I've been known to think outside the box on occasion, which usually leads to a display of complete idiocy - (my 12 year old still thinks this is 'cool')

And I simply can't let this rest.

OK - so second battery idea isn't necessesarily new - they're used in marine and diesel applications, etc. The design is out there. So - that being said, I've tried to come up with a way to add a second battery that will provide necessary wattage for whatever lighting system, heated clothing, microwave oven, etc., you may have on your bike.

So - here goes - (fair warning - I'm hijacking my own post - (can I do that?))

First, you obtain one of the really cool Uni-Go trailers from New Zealand - I like this one:

These are available with the appropriate kit to install on the FJR.

Next, you need the batteries - let's see ........... Hmmmm......

This looks good -

Specifications:

6-2 Volt Cells (12v) Absolyte AGM Battery

1300 amps/8hrs Sealed, Maintenance Free Absorbed Glass Matt Battery

The 12 volt battery bank is 1400 lbs and is 38” wide, 18” high and 24” deep.

I would imagine that a few modifications to the Uni-Go might be requried, and perhaps a wee bit of buttressing to improve the torque failure forces on the trailer hitch - but once the cells were installed in the trailer, just add in some wire, and it's good to go !! Easily an extra two or three weeks of farkle juice.

And now that I think about it, it might be a good idea to upgrade the brakes.

So - do you think Warchild would be willing to do the 'test farkle' on this one? Imagine being able to pop popcorn in your microwave during the IronButt... or whip up the old Bass-o-Matic full of Pink Squirrels ! You could power a particle beam to clear the road of forest rats - (see - this is a safety improvement!) Lots of things you could do with this!!

Comments?

Ideas are welcome !!

So - should I seek a patent? Whaddya Think ???

:thumbup: :coolio:

I say go for it! I think you should do all the R&D, Engineering and Patents out of your pocket... but don't worry... we will all be waiting with open wallets to buy... really we will... it could make you rich! :haha:

 

[HondaCBX6]

Wih that much juice you could use the starter to get yourself home!

 

[madmike2]

Or have some really strong driving lights (read: melt snow and fog) and heated clothing.

 

[Bounce]

First, you obtain one of the really cool Uni-Go trailers from New Zealand - I like this one:

So how are you going to vent the noxious fumes? Not just from the battery acid, but from this brain fart! :haha:

 

[torch]

If you are going to think outside of the box, go all the way outside of the box:

Convert that Unigo rear wheel into a belt drive. Install a 120 amp Delco 'single wire' alternator in the trailer, driven by the belt and eliminate the all the weight and fumes of batteries. It would also free up storage space in the trailer and providing an infinite duration of additional power. Change the trailer plug to a 7pin Bargman style used on RVs and run some 10 gauge back up to the FJR battery.

Letsee: 120 amp x 14 volts = 1,680 watts. I don't know about phasers or other particle beam weapons, but you could run a hair dryer on that kind of power...

 

[madmike2]

:haha:

 

[kaitsdad]

If you are going to think outside of the box, go all the way outside of the box:
Convert that Unigo rear wheel into a belt drive. Install a 120 amp Delco 'single wire' alternator in the trailer, driven by the belt and eliminate the all the weight and fumes of batteries. It would also free up storage space in the trailer and providing an infinite duration of additional power.  Change the trailer plug to a 7pin Bargman style used on RVs and run some 10 gauge back up to the FJR battery.

Letsee: 120 amp x 14 volts = 1,680 watts. I don't know about phasers or other particle beam weapons, but you could run a hair dryer on that kind of power...

Ya know, MadMike2, this really isn't a bad idea .......

Hmmm............

 

[odot]

I wonder how the trailer handles the twisties? What is the max speed? Will a toilet plunger fit in it? These are questions that need to be answered.