second cam chain tensioner

[RadioHowie]

My experience what it is, I'll refrain from going the RadioHowie route and pull the valve cover. I'm a bit of a mechanical **** anyway! :drag:

Hey, whoa there, podnuh! The spring in my CCT broke in half, allowing the chain to de-tension and slip with the motor running. I've made a LOT of mistakes in my life, but that wasn't one of them.

 

[Patriot]

My experience what it is, I'll refrain from going the RadioHowie route and pull the valve cover. I'm a bit of a mechanical **** anyway! :drag:

Hey, whoa there, podnuh! The spring in my CCT broke in half, allowing the chain to de-tension and slip with the motor running. I've made a LOT of mistakes in my life, but that wasn't one of them.

smoking as an infant is one of them it seems... :yahoo:

 

[demetri]

My experience what it is, I'll refrain from going the RadioHowie route and pull the valve cover. I'm a bit of a mechanical **** anyway! :drag:

Hey, whoa there, podnuh! The spring in my CCT broke in half, allowing the chain to de-tension and slip with the motor running. I've made a LOT of mistakes in my life, but that wasn't one of them.

oh, well in that case, I digress.

I must have been projecting cuz it's probably something I would do! :confusedsmiley:

 

[Geezer]

My experience what it is, I'll refrain from going the RadioHowie route and pull the valve cover. I'm a bit of a mechanical **** anyway! :drag:

Well, to be clear, in this engine you don't need to pull the valve cover, just the timing chain cover. It is easily accessible on the right side. I have had mine off several times and reused the same gasket every time with no leaks.

 

[chrisflock]

I had the cam chain tensioner replaced at about 31k miles on my 2005 due to a light "loose" chain noise. It fixed the problem (i.e. the noise went away).
A couple months ago a louder, deeper pitched noise (like marbles) started in the lower right hand side of the motor (now with about 36k miles on it). After reading through this forum, which is always a huge help, and reading how to adjust the CCT with a long thin screwdriver I was able to determine that the CCT needed to be replaced again. (Someone had mentioned they know an individual who has had 4 cam chain tensioners within 100k, if I remember correctly)

I was able to do it myself, with a LOT of patience, the service manual, and a helper holding a flashlight. The engine is as quiet as can be again. It took a few hours, mostly due to removing all the plastic which I took the opportunity to clean while it was all off the frame.

I found that I needed to remove the TPS to get the CCT out of it's spot behind the frame. The whole job would have been so much easier if there was about an inch more space for your hands and the 8mm wrench. Tough, tough spot to work in.

Anyway, just passing along some info. If you plan to do it yourself, take your time. I saved a decent amount of money by not having to pay the hourly shop fee, and also have the satisfaction of having learned something more about the FJR.

Ok, I guess I'll say it right out:

I'd be real surprised if the dealer actually replaced your tensioner when you took it in. Most likely, they just futzed with it, maybe even removed it, cleaned and reinstalled, getting it to 'spring' out once again and quiet the noise--for a time.

Sometimes, in dealer speak, 'replace'='remove, clean, reinstall'

 

[FJRBluesman]

Chain's not going anywhere with the tensioner out, but do NOT turn the motor at all, with anything.

I'm not sure that's necessarily true...?

(maybe with the FJR engine -- I don't know?)

But, most engines will have any open valves want to push back on their cam lobes (if they can) and that'll rotate the cam and cam-shaft (when no tensioned chain is holding it).

There are specific places in engine rotation where most of the valves are either closed, fully open, or not exerting pressure (rotating forces) on the cams -- and those positions are the only places where it's relatively safe to remove/release the CCT.

Beware of the possibility of cams rotating with a loose (untensioned) chain.

Really....???
Lets see we have 8 valves and 8 different lobes on each cam, all touching the buckets at different rotations, and one valve (springs, they do the work) or even two valves are pushing back will move that cam (the other 6 lobes and the spring tension they have), the chain, and the other cam (maybe, maybe not) and slip it a tooth? I highly doubt it.

How many CCT's have people replaced on this forum? Anyone encounter slipping cam chains replacing the CCT? If so please tell us. I wasn't even concerned with that when I replaced my CCT. The motor is static and plenty of friction every where else to keep it in place, like the crank.

 

[Bustanut joker]

static and plenty of friction every where else to keep it in place, like the cranky.

Three words that, somehow are very descriptive of you Bluesy..



:jester:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Really....???

Yep

Lets see we have 8 valves and 8 different lobes on each cam, all touching the buckets at different rotations, and one valve (springs, they do the work) or even two valves are pushing back will move that cam (the other 6 lobes and the spring tension they have), the chain, and the other cam (maybe, maybe not) and slip it a tooth? I highly doubt it.

Okay

All the valves that aren't on the base circle of the cam -- any on an opening or closing ramp and, especially, any farther along on the lobe will be trying to rotate the cam via pressure from the valve spring.

The motor is static and plenty of friction every where else to keep it in place, like the crank.

When there's slack in the chain the crank is, effectively, not in the picture -- the cams are free to rotate. If the chain stays imbedded in/meshed with the sprocket teeth, fine. If not (and the timing isn't verified), bad news.

 

[lnewlf]

Sooo-considering the small amount of work involved,it would appear to be prudent to remove the timing cover and secure the chain. Added benefit would be that the tension could be checked which would be handy if a manual [APE] tensioner were installed. nicht wahr?

 

[Geezer]

Sooo-considering the small amount of work involved,it would appear to be prudent to remove the timing cover and secure the chain. Added benefit would be that the tension could be checked which would be handy if a manual [APE] tensioner were installed. nicht wahr?

Well, sort of. The dowel that holds the chain guide is anchored at one end in the cover, so you can't really get a good idea of the tension with the cover off.

 

[RadioHowie]

The fact is that the frequency of CCT replacements, cam chain inspections, grenaded motors, etc., is going to be a purely individual statistic, base on the owner of the FJR in question.

There are going to be riders who are going to "take a look" maybe every 3rd or 4th oil change to make sure everything's working okay. There are going to be riders (such as myself) who are going to inspect the cam chain system every oil change. There are going to be riders who choose an arbitrary number, such as second valve adjust at 52K miles, to attend to the chain system. There are going to be riders who never take a look at the system.

As this platform continues to mature, we WILL be seeing future "Atomic Engine Club" members. Bet the farm on it.

Just bet it won't be those who understand the limitations built in to the OEM system, become proactive and make a point to regularly inspect the system.

The MOST IMPORTANT item to remember is this: When you hear that chain noise from the right side/middle of the motor, DON'T ignore it, and more especially, DON'T listen to anyone who tells you "they all sound like that....it's normal."

 

[dsmack]

The fact is that the frequency of CCT replacements, cam chain inspections, grenaded motors, etc., is going to be a purely individual statistic, base on the owner of the FJR in question.
There are going to be riders who are going to "take a look" maybe every 3rd or 4th oil change to make sure everything's working okay. There are going to be riders (such as myself) who are going to inspect the cam chain system every oil change. There are going to be riders who choose an arbitrary number, such as second valve adjust at 52K miles, to attend to the chain system. There are going to be riders who never take a look at the system.

As this platform continues to mature, we WILL be seeing future "Atomic Engine Club" members. Bet the farm on it.

Just bet it won't be those who understand the limitations built in to the OEM system, become proactive and make a point to regularly inspect the system.

The MOST IMPORTANT item to remember is this: When you hear that chain noise from the right side/middle of the motor, DON'T ignore it, and more especially, DON'T listen to anyone who tells you "they all sound like that....it's normal."

And that, my friend 'Owie, seems to me to be a distillation of the "wisdom of the ages!"

Following along on your quest for CCT nirvana... rooting for you all the way!

Don

 

[Karl]

It funny because the service managers of the 2 main shops I use both say they have never seen an FJR tensioner or cam chain go bad. Maybe the bikes they have seen are lower mileage or they are just waiting for it to fail so they can get a bigger repair bill. Coming up on 50K so will probably have to do both soon as I plan to keep this one for a long time unless the next gen proves to be far superior.

 

[ionbeam]

...the service managers of...2 main shops...both say they have never seen an FJR tensioner or cam chain go bad...

A man fell off the roof of an apartment building. As he passed the open window on the fourth floor the tenets could clearly hear him say, "So far, so good...."

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

It funny because the service managers of the 2 main shops I use both say they have never seen an FJR tensioner or cam chain go bad. Maybe the bikes they have seen are lower mileage or they are just waiting for it to fail so they can get a bigger repair bill. Coming up on 50K so will probably have to do both soon as I plan to keep this one for a long time unless the next gen proves to be far superior.

As has been noted on this Forum -- there is no MamaYama specified mileage (or time) recommendation for cam-chain replacement. In the (motorcycle related) automotive world, it has recently become popular (again) to build engines with camshafts driven by chains (like the FJR) because they don't require periodic/early replacement (customers balk....) -- and they're cost-effective....

When there is looseness in the cam-chain (failed/failing automatic adjuster) -- there will be NOISE...

 

[RadioHowie]

Sooo-considering the small amount of work involved,it would appear to be prudent to remove the timing cover and secure the chain. Added benefit would be that the tension could be checked which would be handy if a manual [APE] tensioner were installed. nicht wahr?

Well, sort of. The dowel that holds the chain guide is anchored at one end in the cover, so you can't really get a good idea of the tension with the cover off.

Just killing the last few minutes of the day at the office and was re-reading this thread when I came across this post again.

While Geezier is partially correct that the dowel that creates the bottom "hinge" of the aft chain slipper probably will come out with the cover, it's not anchored in the cover. It will come right out and you can put it right back in through the base of the slipper into the recess in the block that locates it.

Just don't rotate your motor, by starter or by wrench, until you put that dowel pin back in the block, as it positively locates the aft slipper in position, and if you rotate the motor with the slipper "unattached" by the pivot dowel, the slipper WILL move. And if you're rotating the motor clockwise, as viewed from the right side of the bike, with the slipper unattached, the chain movement clockwise will drag the slipper UP, putting a hell of a bind on the chain.

If you turn the motor CCW with the slipper unfixed, the chain will force the slipper DOWN. Instant tons of slack and you'll skip a tooth on the crank sprocket. Part of the problem in the ease in which the chain WILL slip is the small diameter of the crank sprocket. The chain must be snugged up against the crank sprocket or it will slip instantly. And that's not good. Nope, not at all.

Just be sure, if the dowel (arrow below) stays attached to the cover when checking your chain, do NOT rotate the motor until you put it back to positively anchor the rear chain guide.

Finally, to answer lnewlf's question, most assuredly yes "it would appear to be prudent to remove the timing cover and secure the chain." I'd recommend a zip-tie betweein the two chain runs right about where the arrow in the above picture is.

JUST BE SURE TO REMOVE IT BEFORE PUTTING THE COVER BACK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[demetri]

I'd recommend a zip-tie betweein the two chain runs right about where the arrow in the above picture is.
JUST BE SURE TO REMOVE IT BEFORE PUTTING THE COVER BACK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and that's exactly how i plan on doing it. judging from this pic, there is enough room to secure it in the side cover. easier than taking the top cover off!

good on ya howie! :dinamo: :drinks: :russian: :brunette: :fans: