Severe Surging

[RickL]

I'm stumped. A couple of weeks ago, I was 3.5 hours into a 4 hour ride, and my FJR started surging. This is not the "hunting" that the FJR is known for - it's much more severe than that. Checked all the vacuum tubes - everything's connected correctly. Since the bike had recently been shipped from Hawaii, I suspected water in the gas - drained the tank, refilled with fresh gas, put in some "dry gas," and ran through the tank - still surging. Next I tried fuel injector cleaner, thinking some gas had gunked up the EFI - no joy. Hmmmm, maybe it's electrical...so I installed the PCIII that I'd bought and installed the Wally Kliburg smoothness map. No difference. Here are the symptoms:

- surges slightly when cool; surges most when at 3 bars on the temp gauge.

- surges BADLY when accelerating

- when idling, will "hunt" a little bit (normal FJR behavior, AFAIK)

- at high rpm (5-7K) it runs pretty smoothly - cruises nicely at 85-90 mph

- has a lag when giving it throttle, especially heavy throttle - almost like a turbo lag

Any of you expert wrenches out there have any ideas? I'm planning on taking it to the dealer on Monday; hopefully they can figure it out.

 

[Windjammer]

A sensor perhaps? TPS is known to fail from time to time, and could produce the symptoms you describe. But the first thing I'd check is battery voltage both when the bike is off and when it's running, even if the battery is fairly new. Low battery voltage can cause all sorts of odd behavior.

 

[luvtoride]

My guess... throttle positioning sensor. I've seen it described here alot just like that. I also had a problem with mine. Mine tripped the "check engine" light, though. It also showed up under the self diagnosis mode. Have you checked the computer for self diagnosis, yet?

Brought her into the dealer & they charged me something like 50 bucks to adjust it. No prob since.

 

[FJRocket]

Heidi, No YES, no?

 

[weekend rider]

If none of what was mentioned does not fix it you may have a problem with your computer, this would be last and costly. I would look for loose wires corroded from the ocean water sounds like something simple remember patience, patience good luck let us know. Also did you look in war child tech section?

B)

 

[luvtoride]

Mr. Rocket... YES on the YES

I was informed that the TPS is an occasional maintenance item & not covered by YES. Imagine my saddness.

 

[RTSR1/FJR]

Mr. Rocket... YES on the YESI was informed that the TPS is an occasional maintenance item & not covered by YES. Imagine my saddness.

I don't understand why the TPS wouldn't be covered by YES. Take it to another dealer.

 

[radman]

Ditto on the TPS. TPS is NOT a "maintenance" item on any machine I have ever seen or heard of. Check carefully before you buy into that one. If that is the case, check the diag display and if it fails, it's an easy fix, buy it from U Motors and install yourself. I would. The TPS will fail in parts of it's travel, would explain good high speed performance but poor low speed.

 

[luvtoride]

Mr. Rocket... YES on the YESI was informed that the TPS is an occasional maintenance item & not covered by YES. Imagine my saddness.

I don't understand why the TPS wouldn't be covered by YES. Take it to another dealer.

If I really had that hard of a time believing what they told me I might go elsewhere. This place, Sunrise Cycle, Norfolk, VA has been decent to me. They're also a whopping 3 miles from my house... & high on my "dealer of choice" list mostly because of this.

I questioned them more than once about the TPS charge. No go... I just paid & took Big & Silver home.

 

[RTSR1/FJR]

Mr. Rocket... YES on the YESI was informed that the TPS is an occasional maintenance item & not covered by YES. Imagine my saddness.

I don't understand why the TPS wouldn't be covered by YES. Take it to another dealer.

If I really had that hard of a time believing what they told me I might go elsewhere. This place, Sunrise Cycle, Norfolk, VA has been decent to me. They're also a whopping 3 miles from my house... & high on my "dealer of choice" list mostly because of this.

I questioned them more than once about the TPS charge. No go... I just paid & took Big & Silver home.

I can tell you this, '04 & '05 R1's develop stalling/cut out, and rough idling problems assoiated with the primary TPS and Yamaha is warranting them no problem. So I suggest you rethink your loyalty to your dealer. I think you just got took. I could be wrong thinking the FJR would be covered, but I don't see why they'd do it for one bike and not another.

 

[radman]

On all automotive applications, the TPS is considered an emmissions related device. As such, it is replaceable under the 50,000 mile emmissions warranty, not to mention under the regular 36,000 bumper to bumper most cars have.

 

[RTSR1/FJR]

On all automotive applications, the TPS is considered an emmissions related device. As such, it is replaceable under the 50,000 mile emmissions warranty, not to mention under the regular 36,000 bumper to bumper most cars have.

:stupid: :thumbup:

 

[Bike Effects]

On all automotive applications, the TPS is considered an emmissions related device.  As such, it is replaceable under the 50,000 mile emmissions warranty, not to mention under the regular 36,000 bumper to bumper most cars have.

:stupid: :thumbup:

You took the words out of my mouth! Except I believe it is 5 yrs., 50,000 miles.

 

[markjenn]

On all automotive applications, the TPS is considered an emmissions related device. As such, it is replaceable under the 50,000 mile emmissions warranty, not to mention under the regular 36,000 bumper to bumper most cars have.

Rad, don't want to get picky but this varys from car to car. It's a common misconception that anything that is emissions related is covered by the emissions warranty. Not so. Only items specifically called out in the emissions warranty are covered and they are typically big ticket items like cats and computers, and not stuff like sensors.

I have first hand experience with this on two different cars that developed O2 sensor problems while still under the emissions warranty. Neither was covered and I read the fine print.

- Mark

 

[ionbeam]

[SIZE=14pt]Checking the TPS Sensor[/SIZE]

This test is done using the Diagnostic screen. How to:

With the key off, press and hold the "Select" and "Reset" buttons simultaneously and turn the key on (do not start, just ON), continue to hold the buttons until the display next to the fuel gauge says diAG (5-10 seconds).

Release the two buttons. Now, press the "Select" and "Reset" buttons simultaneously again. After ~ 2 seconds the display should show d1:01 on top and a two digit number at the bottom. You are now looking at the throttle position sensor (TPS) output. The TPS value is the two digits at the bottom of the display.

Turning the throttle will change the digits. Normal is 15-17 with the throttle closed and 97 to 100 with the throttle wide open. When the TPS goes bad it can be catastrophic, where the two digit value is just plain wrong and doesn't follow the throttle at all. This could be the TPS, it could be in the harness that connects to the TPS or it could be the ECU.

The other failure mode of the TPS is to have 'dead spots' as the throttle is opened. This is the most common failure and it usually occurs at roughly 20-40% of throttle opening because that is range where the throttle is positioned for most riding. To check this -- very, very slowly open the throttle from full closed to full open and observe that the numbers climb with no skipped numbers and no drop-out readings (e.g. 45, 46, 47, 01, 01, 48, 49) The 01 reading is a 'drop-out'. This failure is almost certainly the TPS.

To leave the diAG mode simply turn the key off. Done.

Alan

 

[RickL]

All,

Thanks for the ideas - will check out the diags manana and see what's up. Will let you know how it works out.

RickL

 

[radman]

I was gonna argue the point, but I'm tired of it. Fine, whatever.

 

[RickL]

Well, the diag process worked exactly as ionbeam described. (Thanks! Your instructions were way easier to understand than the manual's.) Unfortunately(?), the TPS seems to be working correctly, at least according to the diags. Did 'em 3 times, just to be sure.

In the manual, it describes a process for checking the TPS using a pocket tester to verify sensor resistance. Does the menu-driven process take the place of that, or can there be TPS faults that do not show up in the diag menu?

Thanks again for all the help. You guys/gals are great!

 

[yanktar]

Have you eliminated the basics as a cause of your surging?

For example, have you made sure your throttle bodies are synched correctly?

Checked for fouled plugs? Binding throttle cables? (the oldie but goodie--when you turn the bars, it pulls on the throttle cable)

I'm not saying these are the cause, but eliminating them as the obvious is important to diagnosis.

The PCIIIusb can also be a window into your engine--it allows your PC to display what's happening at various TP settings--and displays exact RPM . You may be able to spot an anomaly with it.