SHAD SH50 Install

[nervous]

The Givi mount has you remove and replace the grab rail and tail mount and replace it with the metal mount. mounting to the frame under the rear seat as well as at the tail. Here

What you have (and I had previously) places the top box out on the tail without re-enforcing that subframe. The additional weight out on the tail gets to bouncing like a diving board which can cause those stress fractures.

Not to sidetrack my original thread any further but I think this needs clarification. The conventional wisdom is that the Givi mount (i.e. the SR357)adds some extra support that the stock rack does not. Not in overall individual strength (steel vs. aluminum) but rather in it's connection with something other than the subframe which is the vulnerable piece the Givi rack is claimed to save. But it doesn't as far as I can tell. And the issues have been with broken subframes and not broken OEM racks.

Here again is the Givi with it's two front attachment points highlighted to note their location on the subframe:



And here is the stock rack highlighting the same two points that IT uses in attaching to the subframe:



They both use the same three rear points so if both use the same five mounting points to the subframe how is the Givi superior?

From what I have been reading the claim is that it moves the weighted stresses away from the subframe but it's clearly attached to the subframe (exactly like the stock unit) so what am I missing? I don't mean to be thick-headed here but I not seeing it yet. :blink:

And, one other small point to an earlier poster that expressed concerns to the Shad mount I'll restate the point that any rack that mounts to either the Givi or stock rack will introduce the same stresses, not unique to any Shad product.

The difference is that the Givi 357 rack is made of heavy steel. The factory grab rail is not aluminum, it is PLASTIC. After awhile of use the factory grab rail will break at the points just outside of the two mounting bolts circled in red where the rail goes under the seat edge. At that point the rear subframe is no longer tied to the grab rail. The break is hard to notice. I know, my grab rail broke and I noticed it before damage was done to my sub frame. I now have the 357 as ugly as it is.

C'mon now. We're really off in fantasy land now. It's not plastic. **** metal, maybe but certainly NOT plastic...

 

[mvette]

The Givi mount has you remove and replace the grab rail and tail mount and replace it with the metal mount. mounting to the frame under the rear seat as well as at the tail. Here

What you have (and I had previously) places the top box out on the tail without re-enforcing that subframe. The additional weight out on the tail gets to bouncing like a diving board which can cause those stress fractures.

Not to sidetrack my original thread any further but I think this needs clarification. The conventional wisdom is that the Givi mount (i.e. the SR357)adds some extra support that the stock rack does not. Not in overall individual strength (steel vs. aluminum) but rather in it's connection with something other than the subframe which is the vulnerable piece the Givi rack is claimed to save. But it doesn't as far as I can tell. And the issues have been with broken subframes and not broken OEM racks.

Here again is the Givi with it's two front attachment points highlighted to note their location on the subframe:



And here is the stock rack highlighting the same two points that IT uses in attaching to the subframe:



They both use the same three rear points so if both use the same five mounting points to the subframe how is the Givi superior?

From what I have been reading the claim is that it moves the weighted stresses away from the subframe but it's clearly attached to the subframe (exactly like the stock unit) so what am I missing? I don't mean to be thick-headed here but I not seeing it yet. :blink:

And, one other small point to an earlier poster that expressed concerns to the Shad mount I'll restate the point that any rack that mounts to either the Givi or stock rack will introduce the same stresses, not unique to any Shad product.

The difference is that the Givi 357 rack is made of heavy steel. The factory grab rail is not aluminum, it is PLASTIC. After awhile of use the factory grab rail will break at the points just outside of the two mounting bolts circled in red where the rail goes under the seat edge. At that point the rear subframe is no longer tied to the grab rail. The break is hard to notice. I know, my grab rail broke and I noticed it before damage was done to my sub frame. I now have the 357 as ugly as it is.

C'mon now. We're really off in fantasy land now. It's not plastic. **** metal, maybe but certainly NOT plastic...

I got a broken one to prove it! reference post # 15 on this forum topic. https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=144550&st=0&p=949456&hl=+grab%20rail&fromsearch=1entry949456

 

[nervous]

The Givi mount has you remove and replace the grab rail and tail mount and replace it with the metal mount. mounting to the frame under the rear seat as well as at the tail. Here

What you have (and I had previously) places the top box out on the tail without re-enforcing that subframe. The additional weight out on the tail gets to bouncing like a diving board which can cause those stress fractures.

Not to sidetrack my original thread any further but I think this needs clarification. The conventional wisdom is that the Givi mount (i.e. the SR357)adds some extra support that the stock rack does not. Not in overall individual strength (steel vs. aluminum) but rather in it's connection with something other than the subframe which is the vulnerable piece the Givi rack is claimed to save. But it doesn't as far as I can tell. And the issues have been with broken subframes and not broken OEM racks.

Here again is the Givi with it's two front attachment points highlighted to note their location on the subframe:



And here is the stock rack highlighting the same two points that IT uses in attaching to the subframe:



They both use the same three rear points so if both use the same five mounting points to the subframe how is the Givi superior?

From what I have been reading the claim is that it moves the weighted stresses away from the subframe but it's clearly attached to the subframe (exactly like the stock unit) so what am I missing? I don't mean to be thick-headed here but I not seeing it yet. :blink:

And, one other small point to an earlier poster that expressed concerns to the Shad mount I'll restate the point that any rack that mounts to either the Givi or stock rack will introduce the same stresses, not unique to any Shad product.

The difference is that the Givi 357 rack is made of heavy steel. The factory grab rail is not aluminum, it is PLASTIC. After awhile of use the factory grab rail will break at the points just outside of the two mounting bolts circled in red where the rail goes under the seat edge. At that point the rear subframe is no longer tied to the grab rail. The break is hard to notice. I know, my grab rail broke and I noticed it before damage was done to my sub frame. I now have the 357 as ugly as it is.

C'mon now. We're really off in fantasy land now. It's not plastic. **** metal, maybe but certainly NOT plastic...

I got a broken one to prove it! reference post # 15 on this forum topic. https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=144550&st=0&p=949456&hl=+grab%20rail&fromsearch=1entry949456

Very interesting but I am still struggling with that. That's a pretty crappy pic to tell anything from, sorta Sasquatch-esque to me.

For fun have you drilled through some different areas of your broken rack? That should give a definitive answer based on what comes curling off the drill bit.

 

[mvette]

The Givi mount has you remove and replace the grab rail and tail mount and replace it with the metal mount. mounting to the frame under the rear seat as well as at the tail. Here

What you have (and I had previously) places the top box out on the tail without re-enforcing that subframe. The additional weight out on the tail gets to bouncing like a diving board which can cause those stress fractures.

Not to sidetrack my original thread any further but I think this needs clarification. The conventional wisdom is that the Givi mount (i.e. the SR357)adds some extra support that the stock rack does not. Not in overall individual strength (steel vs. aluminum) but rather in it's connection with something other than the subframe which is the vulnerable piece the Givi rack is claimed to save. But it doesn't as far as I can tell. And the issues have been with broken subframes and not broken OEM racks.

Here again is the Givi with it's two front attachment points highlighted to note their location on the subframe:



And here is the stock rack highlighting the same two points that IT uses in attaching to the subframe:



They both use the same three rear points so if both use the same five mounting points to the subframe how is the Givi superior?

From what I have been reading the claim is that it moves the weighted stresses away from the subframe but it's clearly attached to the subframe (exactly like the stock unit) so what am I missing? I don't mean to be thick-headed here but I not seeing it yet. :blink:

And, one other small point to an earlier poster that expressed concerns to the Shad mount I'll restate the point that any rack that mounts to either the Givi or stock rack will introduce the same stresses, not unique to any Shad product.

The difference is that the Givi 357 rack is made of heavy steel. The factory grab rail is not aluminum, it is PLASTIC. After awhile of use the factory grab rail will break at the points just outside of the two mounting bolts circled in red where the rail goes under the seat edge. At that point the rear subframe is no longer tied to the grab rail. The break is hard to notice. I know, my grab rail broke and I noticed it before damage was done to my sub frame. I now have the 357 as ugly as it is.

C'mon now. We're really off in fantasy land now. It's not plastic. **** metal, maybe but certainly NOT plastic...

I got a broken one to prove it! reference post # 15 on this forum topic. https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=144550&st=0&p=949456&hl=+grab%20rail&fromsearch=1entry949456

Very interesting but I am still struggling with that. That's a pretty crappy pic to tell anything from, sorta Sasquatch-esque to me.

For fun have you drilled through some different areas of your broken rack? That should give a definitive answer based on what comes curling off the drill bit.

No I have not. There are metal inserts molded into the plastic where the attaching bolts go through to keep the plastic from cracking the plastic when tightened. When removed, the rack assy. is very light weight. Take it completely off and you can tell it is not metal. The point is it breaks where it should be made of something a lot stronger like the Givi 357. I think these things catch hell when a passenger leans back into the top box when accelerating, not so much as what you carry in the box. My Yamaha extended warranty covered mine when it broke, but it took a lot of bitching to get it covered. I never installed the new one. I got the Givi 375 and just kept the new one incase I sold the bike. I was using the Premier plate with the Givi adapters when this occured. I didn't want to take a chance and eventually breaking the sub frame at some point. As much as I hated to take the pretty Yammy grab rail off I went with the Givi.