Shifting Hard Shifting 2nd --> 1st

[OneWound]

Hi All,

I got a 2006 FJR1300 w/ ~ 25K miles. For most of the life I've had it (since ~14K?) it seems to shift hard going from 2nd --> 1st. It only appears to happen above ~4,000 RPM, and yes, I am fully depressing the clutch. It's bad enough that I can see silver shavings when I do oil changes, and I'm fairly certain its from the shifting.

From what I can deduce from other forum posts, I should bleed the clutch and potentially soak the clutch plates. Am I correct in my diagnosis? Is it highly likely I just need to bleed my clutch, or should I sucker up and just do both?

Thanks in advance..

 

[RossKean]

Don't shift 2nd to 1st at speed. Forcing it will do damage. I doubt it has anything to do with clutch plates.

 

[infrared]

Definitely, bleed the clutch, completely. You want all of the old fluid out of there, and only clean fluid coming from the bleeder. Speedbleeders.com can make it an easy, one-guy job, and they will know what you need.
Your hand levers should have adjustments on them. Are they set correctly?
Also, there is a brass bushing in the clutch lever (NOT the lever pivot) which gets worn. It pushes the brake rod into the master cylinder. You may need a new one (~US$ 10). You may need to soak the clutch plates in oil, but do the easy stuff first. Keep us posted.

 

[OneWound]

What do you mean by hand levers adjusted properly? They "feel" right.. are you referring to the measurement that, when the lever is pushed, the clutch is out so many inches?

I have a silly question - why would this just appear in the low gears? Why wouldn't it be in the high gears as well?

 

[infrared]

The lever adjustments should let you dis-engage the clutch where you like it. Try the extremes of the lever setting, and see if either way is better. The bushing may be worn out, also.
My only guess on the low gears issue would be that you take more time and care with the high gears, and maybe you rush when shifting the lower gears. I don't know anything mechanical that could cause it.

 

[Prosolar]

So you're at 4k rpm and then you shift from 2nd into 1st? Why are you downshifting at higher rpms?

 

[infrared]

why would this just appear in the low gears? Why wouldn't it be in the high gears as well?

On second thought, the higher gears may shift better (due to better clutch action) because you just pulled the clutch recently (for the lower gears). Try pulling the clutch lever fully once or twice before you actually shift. Let the clutch lever go each time, so it snaps open as fast as possible, then pull it for the shift. This would be like pumping the brakes on a car. IF that helps, then you need to rebuild or replace the clutch master cylinder. Bonus: you get the clutch lever bushing (new) in the rebuild kit.

I still think you may need to flush/bleed the clutch system fully, to see if that helps, before starting repairs.

 

[OneWound]

I'm currently holed up for winter and planning to do my valve check and wanted to take care of this issue (or attempt to). So I'll flush the clutch and let you know when that is, though it may take until after it warms up to check it.

As to why I'm downshifting... its primarily for engine braking. It may also be happening on the upshift too; but it's been a bit since I've ridden that bike to remember.

 

[RossKean]

I don't engine brake into 1st. Even if you can do so above 4000 rpm where you are having issues, there's a good chance you lose traction on the rear tire.

 

[Prosolar]

Ya I still don't get why you'd want to downshift into 1st if you're in 2nd at 4k rpm.

That being said, I was running errands today on my FJR and tried it and it went easy, but the rpms were pretty high...

 

[feejerbkb]

I agree with Prosolar - I'm not inclined to downshift into first until I'm just coming to a stop.

And just to check, you are rev matching when you downshift????? That would mean when at 4k in 2nd gear you would spin the motor up to like 5k+ while the clutch is in and while stepping on the gear lever, right?

That is motorcycle shifting 101 and I don't mean to be condescending or anything like that. I hear plenty of folk on motorcycles passing my driveway who don't understand how to rev match while shifting up/down.

 

[OneWound]

I could be misremembing, its been a bit since I've ridden my FJR. I could not be as well; once I bleed my clutch (and it warms up a bit in Iowa); I'll report any if its still there. Assuming it is, I'll be able to give a better description. I did this mostly from memory (as I never wrote anything down - shame on myself). I got a confirmation on a better first step than what I was planning, so thank you all for that

 

[Mortenk]

I engine brake often as I come to a stop, but only down to 2nd gear. Also, at 4k RPM you should have a decent amount of engine braking, so no need to shift to 1st at that point I would argue. It's often a bit clunky to go into 1st, and I often do that right before I come to a stop. That seems to be less clunky and I'm ready to go whenever the light turns green...

 

[Oldjeep]

I engine brake down to 1st pretty frequently, although not at 4K. To some extent it depends on how much you ride in traffic, I do a lot of commuting riding on the highway so you need to be using 1st gear to slow down and ride in unless you like to be on the brakes all the time.

 

[chrisz]

Brakes are meant to slow down and stop, easier and cheaper to replace brake pads than clutch plates. Also when using brakes the brake light provides a clue to drivers behind you of your intentions...

 

[RossKean]

Brakes are meant to slow down and stop, easier and cheaper to replace brake pads than clutch plates. Also when using brakes the brake light provides a clue to drivers behind you of your intentions...

I use engine braking quite a bit but not especially aggressively and not into 1st unless I am going quite slowly - i.e. coasting toward a stop. As chriz says, brakes are meant for braking and the brake light visible cue to other drivers can be important. As I mentioned before, extreme engine braking can cause the rear tire to lose traction, especially on a wet road or at an intersection where surfaces can be greasy..

I don't worry much about excessive clutch plate wear. All original clutch parts were still in my '07 when I sold it with 185,000 miles and never had a slip.

I would definitely be concerned about metallic bits in the oil...

 

[Klikoo]

You should never downshift at a high speed, so never from 4 back to 1 at 4000 rpm. Engine braking is really just drifting and not downshifting and releasing clutch. It is the clutch that then absorbs the blow and therefore wears unnecessarily. I make sure that the normal speed is on average correct for the speed you are driving. If I still want to switch back once, then I give a little intermediate gas so that the speed is somewhat ovcereent with the speed. The clutch will not slip. And completely downshifting before stopping, I do when he is still driving at a walking pace, goes flawlessly.

 

[wmadoty]

I broke the 1st 2nd shift fork in my old XS-11. One of the symptoms long before the fork broke was a difficult 2 - 1 down shift. It also popped out of 2nd gear into a false neutral, and it would pop in and out of 2nd under hard acceleration. I rode it for years just skipping 2nd gear entirely. I did eventually have to split the cases and replace the offending fork, along with $1,000.00 of other hard parts. I hope you are not having this experience. I loved that bike and would buy another in a second.

 

[rbentnail]

I broke the 1st 2nd shift fork in my old XS-11. One of the symptoms long before the fork broke was a difficult 2 - 1 down shift. It also popped out of 2nd gear into a false neutral, and it would pop in and out of 2nd under hard acceleration. I rode it for years just skipping 2nd gear entirely. I did eventually have to split the cases and replace the offending fork, along with $1,000.00 of other hard parts. I hope you are not having this experience. I loved that bike and would buy another in a second.

Ditto here, exact same symptoms when I bent the 2nd gear shift fork in a Kawasaki.

 

[OneWound]

After a few weeks of riding; I think I may have fixed the problem after following infrared’s advice to flush the clutch system. I haven’t had any recurring systems yet, so fingers crossed…