shifting problems

[playgtar]

Yep, I've had exactly that problem. Usually happens when I let it slow almost to a stop before shifting down from 5th. I try to avoid doing that.
Otherwise, my bike is fine with about 20K miles on it. I wouldn't pay to have it torn into.

Happened to me too. I was at a traffic light and didn't downshift as I was coming to a stop. When I stopped and tried to go four down, it locked up. Of course the light turned green!

 

[Grit]

I have had the same problem while stopping. No warning, it just happens. Not often, only a hand full of times. Letting out the clutch always solves it and it’s hasn’t gotten any worse. So for me that’s a much better solution than having someone take it apart.

Molly is having her 5k service today. I’m curious to see if the problem goes away.

 

[Fred W]

As promised I am following up on the results of the shifting problems...Be it a gremlin, dumb luck or I fixed it myself here is the answer..
We fjr owners have been blessed with an adjusting ring on our clutch and brake levers. That said, all else failing, and my brain about to explode I said to myself, self coma, fiddle with the adjusting ring to see if that will give enough clutch free play before engaging and disengaging to make a difference. In all honesty, I feel a little silly even sharing this as I am relatively sure the type of clutch the fjr uses has nothing to do with the engaging or disengaging by adjusting the clutch lever. However, I either wanted to see more free play or in fact taking the adjustment from the #5 position to the #3 position the clutch engaged with about a ½ inch more free play before coming to the handle bar than it did on the #5 setting. Now, my novice mechanical talents in full play I deduced that if the clutch engages with at least 1 1/2” to spare before all the travel is gone and flush to the handle bar perhaps my desire to come up with a reasonable solution has won out. Or, my crack pipe is jammed up, and I had a taste of normality for a moment, and I actually fixed the problem. However, when I told the “Master Mechanic” at my dealer what I had done with the results of my genius he in a very arrogant way told me that no way what I had done would fix the problem I was having. He went on to explain all about tolerances of the gears and how the synchronization worked in the gear box, and with a wet clutch it is impossible for the lever adjustment to make a difference relative to clutch free play. He told me that that only adjusts rider comfort, and I told him I now had about 1000 miles of perfect down shifting since I made the clutch lever

“more comfortable.” It has never done it since… If he is right, and it was gremlins, I just ask that you allow me to feast on the victory of ignorance for the time being. However, if anyone of you that have had the same problems as I mentioned in the previous thread, and you still experience this problem, see if dumb luck will work for you by adjusting the ring to the # 3 position if it is at the # 5 position.... Nuff said!!

For the record, I am not telling Yamaha International the problem if fixed, just in case the tranny grenades. After all, what I did won’t fix the problem….right?

Wow. This is like Deja Vu, all over again. I have just had this same (almost) discussion with Alakso in another thread.

Let's see if I can explain this for you. First off, your "Master Mechanic" is the one who is on crack. The reason that you are having problems shifting is because of clutch drag. We'll get to the root cause in a moment.

The slave cylinder will always begin to pump fluid at the same lever distance in from the "at rest" position, wherever that has been adjusted to be. There is a "hard limit" at the opposite end by hitting the hand grip. Therefore, when you adjust the clutch lever further away from the bars at rest you will actually get a longer master cylinder stroke. The longer stroke will pump more fluid down the line to the slave, which will then be driven further extended. This means the clutch will be more fully disengaged when the lever is pulled all the way to the grip.

Now, should it be this way? Should you have clutch drag when the lever is positioned at #5, closest to the bars at rest? Maybe not. Clutch drag is the main symptom of a problem that has been found on many FJRs: stuck clutch friction plates. The solution is to take the clutch apart, clean and lube the friction plates and then reassemble. People are calling it a clutch soak, but it really isn't necessary to do any soaking. Just get the plates unstuck and put it back together.

Your lever adjustment may be a band-aid to a clutch that is not quite right. See if you can get the stealership to pull your clutch and clean up the friction plates. It will only cost them a gasket and an hour (or so) labor. Yamaha has paid for this before under warranty.

Or do it yourself and gain an increased one-ness with your machine. Ommm... :derisive:

 

[manwhoride]

As promised I am following up on the results of the shifting problems...Be it a gremlin, dumb luck or I fixed it myself here is the answer..
We fjr owners have been blessed with an adjusting ring on our clutch and brake levers. That said, all else failing, and my brain about to explode I said to myself, self coma, fiddle with the adjusting ring to see if that will give enough clutch free play before engaging and disengaging to make a difference. In all honesty, I feel a little silly even sharing this as I am relatively sure the type of clutch the fjr uses has nothing to do with the engaging or disengaging by adjusting the clutch lever. However, I either wanted to see more free play or in fact taking the adjustment from the #5 position to the #3 position the clutch engaged with about a ½ inch more free play before coming to the handle bar than it did on the #5 setting. Now, my novice mechanical talents in full play I deduced that if the clutch engages with at least 1 1/2” to spare before all the travel is gone and flush to the handle bar perhaps my desire to come up with a reasonable solution has won out. Or, my crack pipe is jammed up, and I had a taste of normality for a moment, and I actually fixed the problem. However, when I told the “Master Mechanic” at my dealer what I had done with the results of my genius he in a very arrogant way told me that no way what I had done would fix the problem I was having. He went on to explain all about tolerances of the gears and how the synchronization worked in the gear box, and with a wet clutch it is impossible for the lever adjustment to make a difference relative to clutch free play. He told me that that only adjusts rider comfort, and I told him I now had about 1000 miles of perfect down shifting since I made the clutch lever

“more comfortable.” It has never done it since… If he is right, and it was gremlins, I just ask that you allow me to feast on the victory of ignorance for the time being. However, if anyone of you that have had the same problems as I mentioned in the previous thread, and you still experience this problem, see if dumb luck will work for you by adjusting the ring to the # 3 position if it is at the # 5 position.... Nuff said!!

For the record, I am not telling Yamaha International the problem if fixed, just in case the tranny grenades. After all, what I did won’t fix the problem….right?

Wow. This is like Deja Vu, all over again. I have just had this same (almost) discussion with Alakso in another thread.

Let's see if I can explain this for you. First off, your "Master Mechanic" is the one who is on crack. The reason that you are having problems shifting is because of clutch drag. We'll get to the root cause in a moment.

The slave cylinder will always begin to pump fluid at the same lever distance in from the "at rest" position, wherever that has been adjusted to be. There is a "hard limit" at the opposite end by hitting the hand grip. Therefore, when you adjust the clutch lever further away from the bars at rest you will actually get a longer master cylinder stroke. The longer stroke will pump more fluid down the line to the slave, which will then be driven further extended. This means the clutch will be more fully disengaged when the lever is pulled all the way to the grip.

Now, should it be this way? Should you have clutch drag when the lever is positioned at #5, closest to the bars at rest? Maybe not. Clutch drag is the main symptom of a problem that has been found on many FJRs: stuck clutch friction plates. The solution is to take the clutch apart, clean and lube the friction plates and then reassemble. People are calling it a clutch soak, but it really isn't necessary to do any soaking. Just get the plates unstuck and put it back together.

Your lever adjustment may be a band-aid to a clutch that is not quite right. See if you can get the stealership to pull your clutch and clean up the friction plates. It will only cost them a gasket and an hour (or so) labor. Yamaha has paid for this before under warranty.

Or do it yourself and gain an increased one-ness with your machine. Ommm... :derisive:

Wow! Thanks for your very good explanation/thread. Others had suggested a clutch soak in previous threads, but didn’t give any reasoning. “Just do it Nike” was the answer. I would actually like to shove this piece of mechanical expertise and wisdom up the arss of the arrogant Master Mechanic for trying to make me feel inept. Now I have some verbiage I can take back to him and explain just how the JFR clutch works. Thanks a million for being there….Or, I just might get zin with my bike and dig in.

Brian

 

[Fred W]

Having the knowledge to discuss your situation with your (self appointed) Jedi mechanic is a good thing. Glad I could help in that way.

But, in order for the discussion to be fruitful I would suggest not mentioning anything about internet or online forums. They tend to frown on such stuff, believing we are a bunch of hate mongering gossipers.

 

[chrisflock]

I had sort of the opposite discussion with my local dealership. When my clutch was dragging, they adjusted the lever all the way out and said 'fixed.' They told me basically what Fred W said, omitting the question of 'should it be like this'.

And then I asked that question. I said, if the clutch only works properly with the lever in the farthest position, why is it adjustable, and not just fixed in that position.

The mechanic just stared at me, unblinking. I slowly got on my bike and rode away...

Anyway, if you have some faith in your dealership, try to get them to do the clutch soak. They *should* be able to handle this. According to my 'useful' dealer (the one I bought the bike from, who is far away) the instructions for installing a clutch include this, and this exact same issue is fairly common on the R1.

If you don't have that faith, do it yourself. It ain't real hard.

Chris