Shorai Li battery - does it change charging rates?

[dcarver]

Installed Shorai battery on 2006 Gen2, KrZy8. 

Immediately noticed decreased max volts on voltmeter.

AGM battery always 14.1 to 14.3, base load.

Shorai immediately dropped to 13.7 -13.9, same base load.

Even substituted AGM battery for Shorai, and yep, back to 14.1 to 14.3.

Base research shows that *some* Li batteries (for motor homes, other bigger applications) have a circuit internal to Li battery which effectively disconnects RR output to keep volts in the Li battery 'sweet' (lower) regions.

Any ideas oh great FJR pundits?

 

[DiggerDr.]

May not be fully charged yet. Higher amperage at a lower voltage until fully charged. Put an hours worth of riding on it and recheck.

 

[dcarver]

May not be fully charged yet. Higher amperage at a lower voltage until fully charged. Put an hours worth of riding on it and recheck.

My bad, forgot to mention Li battery was fully charged using appropriate Li charger. 

Rode KrZy8 for a 300+ mile day and still see the 13.8 or 13.9 value.

I have a phone call in to Shorai tech support to determine if the battery has internal circuitry to reduce 'conventional' RR outputs to lower desired Li values.

 

[Brodie]

Don

The issue I had with a SHORAI battery is its higher standing voltage. If I recall correctly, the two that I ran years ago held at 14.0 - 14.1 volts according to my DATEL. However, when I started running my accessories... Clearwater lights, heated seat, heated jacket liner and gloves, and my slow cooker, it drew my volts below 13.2, thereby discharging the damn thing while driving down the road. In my humble opinion, the SHORAI is the lesser battery to run. It has trouble starting a cold bike in 40 deg weather, causing you to chemically warm up the battery by abusing the starter; and if you accidentally leave the ignition on for over an hour (like I did in West Yellowstone), it will severely discharge the thing and kill it. Just ask Sacramento Mike, he gave me jump starts every time we got going - all the way home. 

It's been years since I had that thing, and I'm glad to be rid of it!

Just my 2¢ worth.

Brodie

 

 

[escapefjrtist]

Low temperature starting behavior gives me pause on these batteries. If you need to abuse the starter to "warm" the battery, seems there's exactly zero benefit to switch from lead acid technology. YMMV

~G

 

[dravnx]

You don't need to "abuse the starter" to warm up the battery. Turn the ignition on and let it sit like that for a minute or two. 

 

[Brodie]

You don't need to "abuse the starter" to warm up the battery. Turn the ignition on and let it sit like that for a minute or two. 

I tried that several times, at 6:15 in the morning, for both SHORAI batteries over the 3 years I ran them. I even wrapped the second one with a pair of aftermarket grip heaters running them for several minutes as well. It didn’t work. After sitting out overnight in 40 degree weather, in San Jose of all places, and I still ended up having to have to stab that starter button several times to even get the starter motor to spin. After that second severe discharge, I was actually happy to cut my losses and get off the bleeding edge of technology. 
 

And I’m one of the first adopters. 

And I was using the SHORAI battery charger, plugged into their special charging port. 
 

Hopefully SHORAI has fixed that glaring fault. Having spent that premium amount for the battery with the highest CCA, it was no good if it isn’t available on demand.

Brodie

 

[dcarver]

Found this really good video - battery comparisons. Turns out Shorai 'plays games' with CCA "equivalency" to lead acid batteries. At 9:10 he describes how a Shorai Li 9 AH is really only a 3 AH battery and not surprising, was the first battery to draw down under identical loads. AND when fully drawn down, the Li battery is toast.

 

[twistedcricket]

I've had the same Shorai since an episode of overheating in Sacramento maybe in 2018? Brodie was weary of them back then...Had Shorai not sent me a free exchange, I would have probably changed it out. I haven't ridden many times below 60 degrees but it doesn't seem to take any longer to fire up.

I won't get another though. I'll go back to a regular battery over this off-season.

 

[SkooterG]

Well, since I like t be a pain in the *** I'll be the voice of dissent.  I am now a true believer in the new Li batteries. I have had a Shorai in my 04 FJR since 2015 that is still going strong.  6 years now!  And Don, I get the same Datel voltage readings as with a typical AGM lead-acid battery.

For the last several years I have been replacing all my moto batteries with The Antigravity Re-start lithium battery.  IMHO it has better tech than Shorai now and has protection from over discharging (leaving the key on) that will shut down the battery and leave enough juice to re-start the bike.  Thankfully, I haven't had to test that feature yet.  These things spin the starter way faster than a typical AGM battery. Got another local FJR dude to try one after his original OEM battery started to slowly degrade and he a true believer also.

Out of my 5 bikes stateside that I ride, I only have one left to upgrade and since it's AGM battery is getting weak it will be replaced with the Antigravity battery soon.

https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/restart-oem/at12bs-hd-rs/

 

[Archer]

I'm about to push "buy now" on your battery recommendation, ScooterG & DCarver.  Do I also buy the "tracker" or just the $100 charger?  Thanks.

 

[RossKean]

I'm about to push "buy now" on your battery recommendation, ScooterG & DCarver.  Do I also buy the "tracker" or just the $100 charger?  Thanks.

Can't see why anyone would need the "Tracker". 

 

[SkooterG]

I did not get the tracker.  I did buy a specific Li battery charger, but its an Optimate I got from Amazon.  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010BCLOMO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Archer]

Done!  Thanks.  Hope it arrives before RR, says Sept 1.  We'll see

 

[RossKean]

Done!  Thanks.  Hope it arrives before RR, says Sept 1.  We'll see

Good luck with the battery and charger. 

I thought seriously about lithium batteries and probably would go there except for the low temperature performance (or lack thereof).  Using the starter to draw a low voltage, high current from the battery just to heat it up does no good for the starter, ignition switch, starter solenoid etc. I like the fact that the Lithium batteries can kick out lots of cranking amps (as long as temperatures are warm enough).  Overall lower capacity (ampere hours) than AGM isn't a big deal - only an issue if there is a charging problem or you are having difficulty with starting.  I can live with their fragility with respect to deep discharge - many these days have self-protection built in to prevent this anyway.  

I ran the OEM Yuasa AGM battery in my '07 for over 10years and 150,000 miles.  The OEM in my 2011 is still going strong after 11 years (but fewer miles).  Neither has had an issue starting the bike in temperatures down to below freezing.  

 

[Oldjeep]

I guess it doesn't get cold enough in MN during riding season - Shorai in all my bikes, never had a starting issue.  But I only ride until it snows - so maybe 20F is as low as I go.

 

[RossKean]

I guess it doesn't get cold enough in MN during riding season - Shorai in all my bikes, never had a starting issue.  But I only ride until it snows - so maybe 20F is as low as I go.

Does it start with first stab of the starter or does the battery have to "warm up" by placing a load on it? 

If it cranks well without the warmup at freezing temperatures then I would say that the technology has improved enough for me to reconsider Lithium the next time I have to get a battery.

 

[Oldjeep]

Cranks immediately.  The Shorai in my FZ1 is at least 5 years old, so it isn't exactly new.  Have the same one in my FJR - but I just bought that in May and added the battery then.

 

[Bounce]

Is the bike stored in a climate-controlled garage (at least with something that keeps the temps at bay... hot or cold)? That might explain why you aren't having LiOn cold starts that most everyone else has reported.