Should I install a Power Commander 3

[gsozz]

[SIZE=12pt]I have read a number of posts concerning the PC3 and am just about to put the grab on one of these jewels.....The problem I want to resolve is the jerkieness of the throtle. What I desire is a smoother power surge in the first 5 to 10 degrees of throtle turn. Is this what I can expect from the PC3????[/SIZE] I am also wondering if this is an easy install on a new 08' FJR????

Thanks for the input. I will probally order Monday

Gsozz

 

[OhioFJR1300]

I just put one on my 06 and if fixed the same problem you are looking to fix. Its an easy install and well worth it. I say go for it.

 

[gsozz]

Thanks a bunch.......Tommorow I shall spend the remainder of my money!

gsozz

 

[Fergi]

[SIZE=12pt]I have read a number of posts concerning the PC3 and am just about to put the grab on one of these jewels.....The problem I want to resolve is the jerkieness of the throtle. What I desire is a smoother power surge in the first 5 to 10 degrees of throtle turn. Is this what I can expect from the PC3????[/SIZE] I am also wondering if this is an easy install on a new 08' FJR????

Thanks for the input. I will probally order Monday

Gsozz

Unless you want the PCIII for other reasons I would recommend the G2 Throttle Tamer. I understand that the '08 is not supposed to have the same throttle issues as earlier models, but I really enjoy the increased resolution just off idle and it's a very easy install. It comes with the 400 cam for the FJR but you might consider ordering the 200 and 300 cams if you want to experiment with the different rates.

My .02

 

[SkooterG]

Unless you want the PCIII for other reasons I would recommend the G2 Throttle Tamer. I understand that the '08 is not supposed to have the same throttle issues as earlier models, but I really enjoy the increased resolution just off idle and it's a very easy install. It comes with the 400 cam for the FJR but you might consider ordering the 200 and 300 cams if you want to experiment with the different rates.

On an 08, I would skip the G2. The 08 has a revised throttle cam which should negate the need for the G2 like the 06 and 07 need. While the 08s seem to be better with regards to fuel injection issues, I still see enough complaints to know that it isn't dialed in perfect yet and and a Power Commander will most likey offer significant improvement.

 

[northsouth]

I just installed one (PCIII) on my '06 and it helped out with that on-off throttle jerkyness (still there but not near as bad), and it seems to have all around smoother throttle response. I'd buy it again.

 

[Fergi]

I just installed one (PCIII) on my '06 and it helped out with that on-off throttle jerkyness (still there but not near as bad), and it seems to have all around smoother throttle response. I'd buy it again.

That "jerkiness" is exactly what the G2 has all but cured on my '08 FJR. IMHO the '08 may have an improved throttle cam over the previous years but there is still room for improvement. I'll probably have both the G2 and the PCIII before it's all over with but I'd hate to give up the G2. Like I said in a previous post, I'm going to experiment around with the 200 and the 300 cams.

John

 

[El Toro]

I know I'm the oddball in this sort of discussion (I think the technical term is intertard crackpot)... but I'm not a fan of the aftermarket fuel map modifiers. In addition to the fact that they are technically illegal for street use in the USA due to their impact on the emissions system, it is sort of hard for me to accept the notion that Yamaha's engineers aren't as smart as the guys at Power Commander, DynaJet.

I have an eddy current based chassis dyno at the lab, peripheral equipment like exhaust gas analyzers, and have experience developing fuel and timing maps from scratch for motorcycle engines. I've only owned my 06 FJR for two months and 3000 miles, but I've patiently worked through the throttle issues by developing better throttle modulation strategies and a stronger right forearm. I am very happy with my stock set up at this point.

There are a lot of guys who see the Power Commander as a worthwhile mod. If I were going to do track days with my FJR, and if I were going to address volumetric efficiency issues with pipes and induction mods, then a PC could be fun and appropriate.

I am also concerned that the more folks who do this sort of stuff, the more wrath we will eventually bring down on all motorcycles via Federal emissions enforcement. Power Commander paid a large fine and agreed to change their business model in Kalifornia a few years back. Some chopper builders also got taken to the cleaners with large fines for ignoring emissions issues. I think its just a matter of time before they come looking for the rest of us. I would rather lay low.

Finally, although folks will tell you that installing a PC won't affect your warranty... if this is true, its because of the generousity of Yamaha. If you have a successful PC result which results in more torque and power, there's no reason for the manufacturer to fix any power train issues that might come up. And finally, if you have a successful installation, which means you defeated the closed loop feedback from the Oxygen sensor back to the ecu, there is really no reason why Yamaha should have ANYTHING to do with repairing anything related to engine response, overheating, or a myriad of other related issues.

And as a postscript, I would just observe that folks fool themselves into thinking that stuff they've done has lead to big time improvements, even when a dyno would show that they lost power rather than gained it. I've seen this on our dyno many times. When you make changes, you have the hope that they will lead to your intended result, and barring immediate and catastrophic failure, most folks see improvements, whether they're real or not.

 

[sporto]

El Toro,

Two words for you. "Excellent post".

Do you have the same opinion of running Edge Juice/Attitude on diesel trucks?

 

[WinnipegTechGuy]

I have an 07 and had the same jerky throttle. Was starting to look at the different mods with the return spring and the G2 Throttle. Got the PC 3 on the group buy and my issues with the throttle went away. Was very easy to install with the posts I found on the forum.

Good luck.

 

[Solo]

El Toro,

With all due respect, and I do mean that, I disagree with some of your positions.

Are the guys at Yamaha as smart as the guys at PC. I don't think that is the issue. The guys at Yamaha are limited by meeting emissions stds., which they have done with the FJR, but at great expense to the safety and rideability of the motorcycle. I have described it as the most difficult motorycycle to ride safely I have ever ridden--that's over 43 years.

You are a far better rider than I to have overcome the FJR's issues by forearm strength.

I have no doubt that others are smarter than Yamaha technicians. In the early '70s I took a standard Yamaha TR2B road racer and increased the top speed by 7-10 mph over the "stock" model. Race results proved it.

But I agree whole-heartedly with you about the emissions issue. However, the answer is not in running a motorcycle with a super-lean condition that makes it unrideable. The answer is in riding as necessary--to work and back--and leaving it parked on weekends--along with your car. The FJR is preferred over most cars as it will get better mileage. But if you are concerned about emissions, leave it parked. No Spank, NAFO, EOM, or rides with buddies on the weekend. That is how to address the emissions problems.

I admit to being "green" since the '70s, which has kept me from enjoying many miles on the road. I only have so many years of riding left, so I hope I can overcome this issue. I'd hate to have one regret that I didn't ride more.

Is my FJR slower with the PCIII? I haven't any clue. But it isn't my mind tricking me. It is now rideable.

El Toro, I appreciate your comments. They are always well-thought out, on point, and worth consideration. But on this, I disagree in some regards.

 

[Jetmaker737]

PCIII works. No doubt about it. Buy it, install it, and you will fix a major rideability issue on your bike.

 

[SkooterG]

El Toro - two words for you:

CRAP POST!!! You are an intertard crackpot!

With all due respect, I completely disagree with you.

As far as emissions, whatever. Does my PCIII equipped put out more? Probably. It still has a catalytic converter. Though I consider myself somewhat a greenie, I will not sacrifice driveability on a high performance machine like an FJR for emissions.

As far as Dynojet guys being smarter than Yammie engineers, well, I think you are missing the point entirely. Obviously Dynojet has designed a product to fill a need. Why that need is there will always be subject to speculation.

I will say that Yamaha has got issues with their fuel injection. I used to blame emissions standards for the problem also, but no more. I blame Yamaha. Others can do it right. I have ridden the new Kawi C14 and it is smoooooth. Others report modern bikes of other makes not experiencing the fuel injection issues the FJR has. Both the FZ-1 and FZ-6 have received much criticism about their fuel injection issues also. As far as I am concerned Yamaha lacks sophistication when designing their fuel injections systems. As many have lamented, when spending the $$$ on a relatively expensive motorcycle, it should already have a properly set up fuel injection with good driveability right from the factory. We shouldn't have to need to buy an aftermarket add-on to achieve those results.

As for warranty issues, you are speculating about things you really don't know about. And though it really doesn't matter in the great scheme of things, for all we know, the FJR will last longer with a properly set up PCIII than with the stock system.

As for your last statement about folks fooling themselves about improvements on stuff they do, I agree wholeheartedly. (Like and oil change improving the 'feel' of the motor) However, that doesn't mean that sometimes those improvements aren't there. I am always skeptical. As I was when I added a PCIII, but I can guarantee you the PCIII makes a big difference in throttle response on many FJRs. You would not see the positive response by so many if the results weren't there. And then there are my two FJRs. Both 04s. One with PCIII, and one without. You come ride both of mine back to back, and you will be singing a different tune. The difference in throttle response and smoothness is obvious. After riding the PCIII FJR, it's annoying to ride the stock one. Right now it's not my primary FJR, but someday it will be and when that happens, the PCIII will be installed.

You talke about power and the PCIII. Now I am sure some folks use the PCIII for supposed power gains with other changes. Maybe that happens, maybe it doesn't. I couldn't care in the least. I didn't buy the PCIII for power gains, but for improvement in driveability, throttle response, and smoothness. I got those things. Go to the Dynojet website, even they say that you shouldn't expect to see power gains with the PCIII so much as improvements in real world driveability.

Go install a PCIII on your FJR, and then comment on what benefit (or lack thereof) it bestows. Until then, you are just talking out your ass as you really don't know what it does.

From many of your other posts, you seem like a fart smeller, ooops, I mean smart feller, but you are dead wrong on this one.

 

[DocDanDC]

:lmaosmiley:

 

[El Toro]

As far as emissions, whatever. Does my PCIII equipped put out more? Probably. It still has a catalytic converter. Though I consider myself somewhat a greenie, I will not sacrifice driveability on a high performance machine like an FJR for emissions.

Unless the maps your running are epa approved mods for the street, you're illegal. No enforcement, no foul...

As far as Dynojet guys being smarter than Yammie engineers, well, I think you are missing the point entirely. Obviously Dynojet has designed a product to fill a need. Why that need is there will always be subject to speculation.

The need will be there because we can't rejet stuff or change slides and needles any more. Folks want to customize their stuff. Shade tree mechanics have moved over to the laptop. There will always be interest in this sort of stuff, at least as long as we have to mix air with fuel to get a combustible mix.

I will say that Yamaha has got issues with their fuel injection. I used to blame emissions standards for the problem also, but no more. I blame Yamaha. Others can do it right. I have ridden the new Kawi C14 and it is smoooooth. Others report modern bikes of other makes not experiencing the fuel injection issues the FJR has. Both the FZ-1 and FZ-6 have received much criticism about their fuel injection issues also. As far as I am concerned Yamaha lacks sophistication when designing their fuel injections systems. As many have lamented, when spending the $$$ on a relatively expensive motorcycle, it should already have a properly set up fuel injection with good driveability right from the factory. We shouldn't have to need to buy an aftermarket add-on to achieve those results.

If you were right on this issue, they wouldn't need to offer power commanders for just about every marque and model with a serious sales base. Every board is full of guys fixing the same problems that you perceive on your Yamaha. Power Commander to the rescue!!!

As for warranty issues, you are speculating about things you really don't know about. And though it really doesn't matter in the great scheme of things, for all we know, the FJR will last longer with a properly set up PCIII than with the stock system.

Whether it lasts longer or not is a moot point when it comes to whether or not they have to warrant your modified engine. The goal of these modifier boxes is to change the response to something different from stock. Its not even an approved mod. Its not like taking your H-D to the Screamin' Eagle level 3 by getting the dealer to reflash the chip. (We've got the software for this and can remap bikes equipped with Italian ecus, like H-D). History of warranty 101 clearly shows that if the manufacturer is willing to warrant the product after you've taken off the oxygen sensor, defeated the feedback loop, and changed the injector on-times, its because they're generous, not because it makes any sense. We say dealers are stealers, but its also true that buyers are liars.... a bike that's been heavily modded will often get put back to stock before bringing it in for a warranty claim. If the warranty is honored, its a sign of generousity.

As for your last statement about folks fooling themselves about improvements on stuff they do, I agree wholeheartedly. (Like and oil change improving the 'feel' of the motor) However, that doesn't mean that sometimes those improvements aren't there. I am always skeptical. As I was when I added a PCIII, but I can guarantee you the PCIII makes a big difference in throttle response on many FJRs. You would not see the positive response by so many if the results weren't there. And then there are my two FJRs. Both 04s. One with PCIII, and one without. You come ride both of mine back to back, and you will be singing a different tune. The difference in throttle response and smoothness is obvious. After riding the PCIII FJR, it's annoying to ride the stock one. Right now it's not my primary FJR, but someday it will be and when that happens, the PCIII will be installed.

I'm sure its different. I'm also sure its perceived as being better. That doesn't make it right, nor does it make it the only route to something acceptable. I don't ride one marque or one model. I'm all over the map, from Italian to German, to Japanese, and from 1965 on to 2007. I don't have some expectation that every bike I ride will have to be farkled to match me as though it were designed with my clone in mind.

You talke about power and the PCIII. Now I am sure some folks use the PCIII for supposed power gains with other changes. Maybe that happens, maybe it doesn't. I couldn't care in the least. I didn't buy the PCIII for power gains, but for improvement in driveability, throttle response, and smoothness. I got those things. Go to the Dynojet website, even they say that you shouldn't expect to see power gains with the PCIII so much as improvements in real world driveability.

They actually remove fuel in some parts of most of their maps, particularly in regions where the lawyers have advised them that they shouldn't be adding power, like mid to high rpm WOT. Doesn't change the fact that unless the mods have been approved, the mods are illegal under US law for street use.

Go install a PCIII on your FJR, and then comment on what benefit (or lack thereof) it bestows. Until then, you are just talking out your ass as you really don't know what it does.

Don't need it. I've got enough experience with the aftermarket boxes, and enough experience setting up new maps from blank slates. I'm waiting for MotoMan to have a franchise and do these installs. When MotoMan blesses it, I'll be on board.

From many of your other posts, you seem like a fart smeller, ooops, I mean smart feller, but you are dead wrong on this one.

This is why folks who actually have technical background and experience in product development don't bother to post most of the time. I don't care that you disagree with my perspective, but while you shout the alternate perspective down with personalized attacks, it makes one less inclined to add anything with content to the board.

 

[SkooterG]

I don't care that you disagree with my perspective, but while you shout the alternate perspective down with personalized attacks, it makes one less inclined to add anything with content to the board.

Dude. My apologies.

My intent was not 'personalized attacks' but simply to inject a little humor.

And your still wrong.

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

I know I'm the oddball in this sort of discussion (I think the technical term is intertard crackpot)... ...I've patiently worked through the throttle issues by developing better throttle modulation strategies and a stronger right forearm.

Got to agree with SkooterG on this one, El Toro.

By your own admission, your bike has "throttle issues", however, instead of correcting the bike's issues through the use of a fuel map modifier as many of us have very successfully done, you've compensated for those issues by beefing up your right forearm and adjusting the way you modulate the throttle, in essence, masking, not correcting, the real issue.

I don't get that logic at all; don't know many who would.

I don't think that Dynojet's engineers are smarter than Yamaha's. I think The Yamaha engineers have done a great job of squeezing a tremendous amount of torque and horsepower out of a 1298cc engine while maintaining compliance with some pretty tough environmental reg's. Problem is, it's come at the expense of a smooth throttle. I prefer to have a smooth throttle without having to fight the bike.

Many FJRs, especially Gen IIs, have "throttle issues". I put together a group buy where more than 50 members jumped at the chance to spend $270 each to correct that problem. I have read post after post by those forum members who, like myself, have found that the PCIII cures the throttle issues very well. Could we ALL be wrong!? Not likely.

I appreciate your posts (almost as much as SkooterG's humor), but I have to respectfully disagree with you here.

 

[shredder]

The PCIII rules.

I have way better things to do than worry about the WHACK that comes with rollin the power back on mid corner. Yeah, you can compensate..... a little and SOME of the time.... but why spend mental and physical energy on twistin yer wrist when you can focus on a smooth corner apex and exit. Not to mention how much safer and more enjoyable the PCIII makes the bike. At the top end of just about all rider schools comes this or something like it.... smooth is fast. Bank on it! :clapping:

 

[Foxhuntr]

My PCIII did wonders for my 07. I'm happy now, before I was scared.