Side case surgery

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Ok... here it is: the definitive look at the mechanism and internals for an FJR sidebag.

It's actually been a few weeks since FJRGuy and myself disected the sidecase. Sorry for the delay in posting this up.

First thing to note is that the thing is held together by a bunch of rivets. We drilled all of them out with a 1/4" air drill, which was small enough to fit inside the case to get at the internal ones.

P7190249.jpg


The thing we didn't realize as we were madly drilling them all out is that most of them don't actually hold the bag together, but actually attach various components to the bag or to each other. The other thing we found out is that even with all the rivets drilled out, the two parts of the shell won't come apart. We suspect that there's a pretty tight vacuum fit of the two pieces, augmented with a squirt of silicone or some other adhesive... bottom line is, the two pieces won't separate.

We did promise a look at the guts of this thing though, and I really wanted to know how the mechanism worked so I could figure out how to fix mine, so we did what any self-respecting shady tree mechanic would do... we destroyed it!

P7190252.jpg


Dremel tool cut the case apart to reveal the inner workings. Here you can see the cogs that engage when you lock the bag onto the bike (or unlock it). This is where we suspected mine had skipped a tooth.

P7190258.jpg


And here's a closer view:

P7190259.jpg


When the gears engage, they move a metal strap connected to a cam arm that lifts the locking pin into position.

This picture shows the mechanism in the "unlocked, bag off the bike" position:

P7190269.jpg


This picture shows the mechanism in the "almost full-up, but not locked" position (which was as far as mine would go).

P7190268.jpg


The last few degrees of movement throws the cam over centre, locking it into position and preventing the bag from disengaging. Here's the picture in that position.

P7190267.jpg


If you want to test if your sidecase has jumped a tooth and is in danger of becoming a projectile, take it off the bike, and close the latch as though it was locked on... then press down on the centre pin and see if there is any movement. If the cam has gone over centre and locked, there will be no movement and you're ok. If there is, then you have the same problem I had - the gears have misaligned.

(We actually shot some video of the mechanism in action, which illustrates it far better than a still picture. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to get video up here on the forum, or even if it is possible... if anyone can let me know how, I'll post it up).

It is possible that this could explain some cases where folks have lost a sidebag along the road. Usually people have blamed themselves (D'Oh!!! I must not have put it on right!!!), but if the gear has slipped there may not be any indication - I certainly didn't realize there was a problem until FJRGuy noticed the bag was almost ready to jump off the bike while we were in the parking lot at CFR

In any case, fixing the problem means getting the teeth back where they are supposed to be. Once aligned, the locking mechanism should work properly again.

To do that, I inserted a flat-bladed screwdriver into the slot where the gears are, and applied a steady, even upward pressure until I felt it jump back into position. There's enough flex in the plastic to do this without breaking anything.

DSCN0411.jpg


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Once the teeth were aligned, the bag worked as it is supposed to. I suspect that the pin got spooged up with road grime and jammed, and I forced and caused the mechanism to skip a tooth... rest assured I'll try to keep that area clean from now on. No telling if the thing will jump again, but now at least I know enough to check it.

So there's the promised pictorial of a disected sidecase.

And now... we have slightly used sidecase parts for sale if anyone's interested ;)

P7190272.jpg


Hope this helps...

Griff

 
Griff, did you find exactly what bonds the two pieces together?

It would be helpful to know if one COULD actually separate the parts to reapir it then reassemble.

If it's glued (which is what I suspect) there's probably no hope.

 
Griff, did you find exactly what bonds the two pieces together?It would be helpful to know if one COULD actually separate the parts to reapir it then reassemble.

If it's glued (which is what I suspect) there's probably no hope.
I would say the two parts are permanently glued together. As you can see from the picture below of the case lids that i had chopped to make my own city cases, the inner and outer surfaces are solidly stuck to each other even when sliced... The impression I got looking at the two surfaces was that given that these are ABS plastic, the glue is something that fuses the plastic parts together, similar to what happens when you use that special glue on the PVC pipe joints.

IMG_6315.jpg


 
I suspect that JamesK is correct, they are fused together with something that makes it impossible to take apart without destroying the bag: an ABS solvent-glue would make sense.

We tried every which way to pry them apart, and there's just no way. Even after they were cut open, the halves were solidly joined.

Griff

 
Griff,

Thanks for posting this. As we have traded PM's, I'd like the collective to know how helpful Griff was in diagnosing my bag flying off the bike at WFO this year; and later Tyler noticed my bag loose on another ride. The symptoms he describes are exactly happening on my right bag, but not the left.

A couple questions, as I am hamfisted and want to try not to fudge this fix up. When you applied pressure with the screwdriver, the bag was unlocked and the handle up? I assume that from the photo. Also, are you levering up on a tooth of the mechanism, and seeing it pop up? Or is it just a sound? Did you have to apply a lot of pressure? What would be the first thing to go badly do you think, so I can avoid it?

Maybe I'm overthinking this but a bag is pricey if I really F up.

I'm also going to do the maodification others like KaitsDad has done to secure the bag to part #94 with a circlip.

Thanks for the writeup!

 
It would also seem that, if you have skipped a tooth on the drive gear, the locking tab that sticks out wouldn't stick out quite as far? Right?

So if we knew in advance exactly how far a "proper" one sticks out... :unsure:

 
Well it looks like you fellas had fun anyway... How'd ya manage to get Jeff away from the Golf Course/Lake long enough to produce those results?

I attempted to separate the top half of the top case to paint it.. Didn't happen. :blink:

Whatever the shit is they use it's some nasty assed stuff!

:jester:

 
Griff,
Thanks for posting this. As we have traded PM's, I'd like the collective to know how helpful Griff was in diagnosing my bag flying off the bike at WFO this year; and later Tyler noticed my bag loose on another ride. The symptoms he describes are exactly happening on my right bag, but not the left.

A couple questions, as I am hamfisted and want to try not to fudge this fix up. When you applied pressure with the screwdriver, the bag was unlocked and the handle up? I assume that from the photo. Also, are you levering up on a tooth of the mechanism, and seeing it pop up? Or is it just a sound? Did you have to apply a lot of pressure? What would be the first thing to go badly do you think, so I can avoid it?

Maybe I'm overthinking this but a bag is pricey if I really F up.

I'm also going to do the maodification others like KaitsDad has done to secure the bag to part #94 with a circlip.

Thanks for the writeup!

To answer your questions... the bag is unlocked, and the grab handle is full up; you insert the blade of the screwdriver under the gear that is attached to the handle, and try to 'lift' it over the tooth so it is back where it belongs. Not a lot of pressure... you'll feel it pop over. When I did it, the first try I felt it give but it didn't quite pop, the second a little more pressure and it popped in. Use the same test of pressure on the locking pin/peg to find out if you got it right: if the gears are properly engaged the pin won't budge from the full-up position when the locking handle is all the way against the bag.

I used a fairly light-weight (read cheap) screwdriver that would bend before I got too much pressure on it, because I was nervous about breaking the bag as well. I reckon unless you really go Gonad the Barbellian on it, you should be ok. :huh:

Well it looks like you fellas had fun anyway... How'd ya manage to get Jeff away from the Golf Course/Lake long enough to produce those results? :jester:
It was raining... and being an engineer, I think he was just plain curious how the sucker worked.

It would also seem that, if you have skipped a tooth on the drive gear, the locking tab that sticks out wouldn't stick out quite as far? Right?
So if we knew in advance exactly how far a "proper" one sticks out... :unsure:


Fred: just measuring the locking pin isn't enough: my left bag (the one with the problem) and the healthy right bag both had the pin protruding the same distance (+/- a millimeter or so); the difference with that last, skipped tooth is that it is that extra travel that pushes the cam over centre to lock the pin in place. I think this is that little "snap" sound you hear when the bag is locked onto the bike. If it isn't over centre, there is a bit of play in the pin that can result in the bag coming loose.

I'm wondering how many other 'flying bags' incidents that were chalked up to pilot error were actually a mechanical fault ? :unsure: Maybe time to open another incident report with the traffic safety folks? <_<

I've got to figure out how to get a video up here... we shot the video of the mechanism working and it is really a whole lot clearer watching it in action than my description and still pics can convey. Any suggestions? Do I have to pop it into YouTube and then post the link?

Griff

 
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Thanks for the reply. That makes sense.

PMing you on the video technique.

[edit]

This prompted me to take my side bags off (which I almost never do) and inspect them closely. If you put a finger on the protruding tab as you operate the bag lock lever (handle) you can quite easily feel the "over-center" that Griff is referring to. Both of mine are okee-dokey. Probably because I don't take them on and off all that much. I have them drilled and pinned at the bottom and just leave them on all the time. Liner bags come in and out of the hotel and the hard bags stay on the bike.

Thanks for the tips!!

 
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Thanks for the reply. That makes sense.
PMing you on the video technique.

[edit]

This prompted me to take my side bags off (which I almost never do) and inspect them closely. If you put a finger on the protruding tab as you operate the bag lock lever (handle) you can quite easily feel the "over-center" that Griff is referring to. Both of mine are okee-dokey. Probably because I don't take them on and off all that much. I have them drilled and pinned at the bottom and just leave them on all the time. Liner bags come in and out of the hotel and the hard bags stay on the bike.

Thanks for the tips!!

Thanks for the tip on the video Fred: here it is --->>> CLICK FOR NAKED SIDE BAG PORN!!

You can see how the cam action works, including how the 'over-centre' locks things in place.

I'm going to go for the 'belt and suspenders approach and pin the bags as well... I don't take them off very often, but since there's no real indication of the bag working properly without taking it off the bike and testing, a little insurance seems prudent.

Griff

 
Griff, did you find exactly what bonds the two pieces together?It would be helpful to know if one COULD actually separate the parts to reapir it then reassemble.

If it's glued (which is what I suspect) there's probably no hope.
As I mentioned earlier I think getting the two case halves apart is a non-starter. However...

If the "gently ease the thing back where it belongs" approach doesn't work, the next solution would be to drill out the rivets that hold the locking levers in place, re-set the teeth where they belong, and then replace the rivets, either with new rivets (good luck!) or with machine screws and plenty of loctite. Haven't measured, but I'd guess 8-32 x 1/2 or thereabouts. If you could get the pressed-in threaded inserts rather than nuts, and push/epoxy/whatever them into the rivet holes, that would be even better. Not a project for the faint of heart though, as a mistake means your bag will wind up looking like the one in our "spare parts" picture, which would be expensive.

Personally, at the price Mammy Yammy wants for a side case, if it happens again and the screwdriver technique doesn't work, or the teeth seemed worn beyond where the bag is secure, I think I'll just replace both of them with a set of Givi PLX cases and a QD rear rack be done with it. Works out to about the same price as a single factory bag, and it'll match the E52 topcase I have on.

Griff

 
Thanks for the pictures and info. This is exactly whats going on right now with my09 left bag. I'll try Warranty first then attempt a fix myself if they won't cover it. I now have plenty of info to explain to the dealer what the problem is. Likely they don't have a clue. Many thanks for all the good posts. The pictures were extremely helpful.

Thanks, Bill

 
I realize I'm dragging up a really old thread, but any chance the pictures & video are still available anywhere? They seem to have been victim to the great Photobucket slaughter of 2017.

One of my cases suddenly won't latch to the bike. The handle won't move and the post won't rise from the fully retracted position -- unless I pull up on the post slightly. Then it works smooth as silk. But of course, as soon as I try to lift the case by the handle, the post fully retracts again. The only way I can reattach that case is to lift the post slighly, grab the case by the sides, put it in place and close the handle to lock it down.

I suspect some part(s) of the plastic mechanism is worn and the photos / video would be really helpful in figuring out what (if anything) I can do about it while minimizing damage.
 
One of my cases suddenly won't latch to the bike. The handle won't move and the post won't rise from the fully retracted position -- unless I pull up on the post slightly. Then it works smooth as silk. But of course, as soon as I try to lift the case by the handle, the post fully retracts again. The only way I can reattach that case is to lift the post slighly, grab the case by the sides, put it in place and close the handle to lock it down.
Doesn't sound good to me. Unfortunately, replacement parts aren't available and even if they were, there is no way to get at the mechanism.
"Pinning" the bottom of the bag may keep it from launching when you hit a bump. Alternative is likely to find a trashed bag somewhere and transfer your outer shell.

This any help?
 
Yeah, thanks. I realize I can't buy parts for it from Yamaha and they weren't designed to be disassembled. But I was thinking I might be able to cut a window in the inside channel and perhaps make a bushing for a worn pivot point or something. Pictures / video of the inside would be handy for planning the attack.

As for the falling off issue, some rubber inside the upper pocket works wonders for preventing a loaded bag from bouncing high enough for the hooks to pop off. BTDT.
 
Yeah, thanks. I realize I can't buy parts for it from Yamaha and they weren't designed to be disassembled. But I was thinking I might be able to cut a window in the inside channel and perhaps make a bushing for a worn pivot point or something. Pictures / video of the inside would be handy for planning the attack.

As for the falling off issue, some rubber inside the upper pocket works wonders for preventing a loaded bag from bouncing high enough for the hooks to pop off. BTDT.
hi Torch! did you find the video? or have you solved the issue? thanks
 
other question would be, if a tooth is skipped, shouldn't there be any signs? like the handle won't stay upward or the latching plastic part would not come out with a full lenght? (mine comes out for 4cm/~1.57" - but when pressed with the hand it;s still moving down).
Also, in the original post it is said to block the handle mechanism with a flat screw driver but not cleat to me what to push in what direction - is it the handle being pushed upwards?
 
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