Sidestand boot now not flat to ground

[bucky]

I finally got tired of parking issues with my 3/4" kouba link lowered bike and worrying about the bike tipping over that I got out the MAPP gas torch, heated the sidestand and bent the sidestand so I get proper lean. By the way, easy to do. Takes maybe 10 minutes total. Now obviously the boot does not sit flat to the ground, but is about 3/8" off the ground on the high side.

Aside from the look with the stand down, the only worry I can see is that on very soft pavement or maybe gravel, the stand could more easily plow downward and the bike tip over. Now I normally carry a small 4" round piece of 1/8" aluminum to sit the sidestand on in those situations, but has anyone who has bent the sidestand down bent the end boot of the sidestand down so it sits flat? It does not look like it is possible, especially given the amount of bend needed to sit flat. Or a fabricated, wedge shaped boot to weld over the bottom of the original boot? Anyone make such a thing?

Any suggestions, especially from someone who has actually done this fix would be appreciated. Obviously I could cut the boot end off and have it re-welded to the proper angle, but that would be a permanent thing which I am trying to avoid. But maybe, who cares? Let the next owner worry about that if/when I sell.

 

[SkooterG]

Why didn't you just simply buy one of the pricey adjustable length replacement sidestands?

 

[wfooshee]

Bend it again, lower down? You know, make an S-curve? You already know how to heat and bend, just do it again.

 

[SacramentoMike]

On the soft pavement/gravel issue, I strongly recommend the little kickstand foot made by WynPro. Not expensive and does the job just right. Of course, the angle will now be wrong for you, which you can fix with the second bend above, or maybe using an angle grinder to change the angle of the kickstand bottom. Big improvement over the little stock kickstand foot.

 

[Gmann]

I use the Kouba Links and the WinPro kickstand foot. My solution to the lack of bike lean was to ground the kickstand stop to get more of a forward angle. Both products are great but the WinPro foot is the first thing to drag when cranking the bike through the curves because of loss of clearance from Kouba Link.

 

[bucky]

Well, I took the sage advise offered here and put said torch to bottom of kickstand just above the pad. Heated it up nicely to a slight glowing orange, clamped a vice grip on the footpad and slowly bent the shaft just above the pad to get the right angle. Since I had the bike on the center stand (level side to side), I bent the pad bottom to almost, but not quite level horizontally.

Let cool, cleaned up and degreased and applied matte black paint. Perfect lean now, even slightly more than stock, which I always thought was not quite enough. Should have done this 2 years ago. BTW, about a year ago, I did the grind on the stop. Helped a little, but to really do the job would have really meant grinding alot off the stop, which would have increased the forward slant of the kickstand alot more, which I was not sure was a good thing to do.

 

[garyahouse]

On the soft pavement/gravel issue, I strongly recommend the little kickstand foot made by WynPro. Not expensive and does the job just right. Big improvement over the little stock kickstand foot.

+1...Here's what cha need.

 

[BlackStar]

I guess I'd be worried that I might have effected the heat treat / temper (hardness) of the steel and that it may bend easier now? Did you quench it with water or oil? Not an expert, which is why I'm concerned that you could find your bike on it's side. I always assumed the sidestand was a forging so that may make a difference?

 

[bucky]

Yeh, I thought about the heating issue and brittleness. But, since the majority of the weight is straight down with not alot of side stress, I am not too worried. Others have done similiar without hearing anything bad, so what the hell. But I will look at it closely now and then for a while and see if I notice any stress fractures. BTW, I let it cool naturally w/o water or oil quenching.

If anyone had a breaking problem, let us all know.

 

[garyahouse]

Yeh, I thought about the heating issue and brittleness. But, since the majority of the weight is straight down with not alot of side stress, I am not too worried. Others have done similiar without hearing anything bad, so what the hell. But I will look at it closely now and then for a while and see if I notice any stress fractures. BTW, I let it cool naturally w/o water or oil quenching.

If anyone had a breaking problem, let us all know.

Heat treating 100 (heat treating for dummies) First of all, no manufacturer in their right mind would heat treat a sidestand: there is no reason to do so. First, heat treating is expensive, and second, it always makes metal more brittle... something you do NOT want in a sidestand. Even if it was heat treated, making any part of heat treated steel... cherry red to bend it does not make it more brittle, actually, the opposite occurs. Heating to cherry red and then letting it cool ON ITS OWN reduces hardness (and brittleness). This is a backyard form of the same thing we do when we temper steel, that is, draw DOWN the hardness a little to prevent it from being too brittle.

Certain metals can indeed become hardened by getting them good and hot and then quenching them in a liquid. For these metals, it's the sudden cooling that makes it happen. It all depends on just what is in the metal (low carbon vs high carbon etc) However, since low carbon steel is much cheaper to produce and just as strong, that's most likely what the stand is made of. And by the way, as every toolmaker knows, good luck trying to harden low carbon steel without encasing it in carbon during the heating process (carburizing, or case hardening). Your sidestand is just as strong today as it was the day it was made. Even if you beat it with a sledge hammer, all it would do... is bend. So, enjoy the fruits of your labor-you did good.

Gary

darksider #44 and retired toolmaker

 

[bucky]

Yeh, I thought about the heating issue and brittleness. But, since the majority of the weight is straight down with not alot of side stress, I am not too worried. Others have done similiar without hearing anything bad, so what the hell. But I will look at it closely now and then for a while and see if I notice any stress fractures. BTW, I let it cool naturally w/o water or oil quenching.

If anyone had a breaking problem, let us all know.

Heat treating 100 (heat treating for dummies) First of all, no manufacturer in their right mind would heat treat a sidestand: there is no reason to do so. First, heat treating is expensive, and second, it always makes metal more brittle... something you do NOT want in a sidestand. Even if it was heat treated, making any part of heat treated steel... cherry red to bend it does not make it more brittle, actually, the opposite occurs. Heating to cherry red and then letting it cool ON ITS OWN reduces hardness (and brittleness). This is a backyard form of the same thing we do when we temper steel, that is, draw DOWN the hardness a little to prevent it from being too brittle.

Certain metals can indeed become hardened by getting them good and hot and then quenching them in a liquid. For these metals, it's the sudden cooling that makes it happen. It all depends on just what is in the metal (low carbon vs high carbon etc) However, since low carbon steel is much cheaper to produce and just as strong, that's most likely what the stand is made of. And by the way, as every toolmaker knows, good luck trying to harden low carbon steel without encasing it in carbon during the heating process (carburizing, or case hardening). Your sidestand is just as strong today as it was the day it was made. Even if you beat it with a sledge hammer, all it would do... is bend. So, enjoy the fruits of your labor-you did good.

Gary

darksider #44 and retired toolmaker

I learn something every day. Now if I can just remember it tomorrow. thanks for the info!

 

[fossilrider]

More stable lean angle and better foot contact.

 

[Fred W]

BTW, about a year ago, I did the grind on the stop. Helped a little, but to really do the job would have really meant grinding alot off the stop, which would have increased the forward slant of the kickstand alot more, which I was not sure was a good thing to do.

It would have been fine to grind more off the stop. Yes, the stand would have to pivot forward further, which would actually be a good thing should one ever park with the bike facing downhill it would make it less likely for the stand to fold back and drop the bike. Generally I just try to never park my bike pointing down slope (for that reason) and just back into any down sloped spot.

 

[Bounce]

I guess I'd be worried that I might have effected the heat treat / temper (hardness) of the steel and that it may bend easier now?

that's exactly what i was wondering (actually wondering how it might anneal the metal) as i read through this thread.

 

[mferriter]

Has anyone tried using an adjustable foot that could bolt ontl the round "shaft" of the sidestand? That way you could cut the sidestand to the desired length, then just bolt on a new "foot". (Sort of like a lock collar)

I understand that the diameter of the sidestand gets larger as you move up closer to the pivot point.

Need to think about this one.

 

[SacramentoMike]

BTW, about a year ago, I did the grind on the stop. Helped a little, but to really do the job would have really meant grinding alot off the stop, which would have increased the forward slant of the kickstand alot more, which I was not sure was a good thing to do.

It would have been fine to grind more off the stop. Yes, the stand would have to pivot forward further, which would actually be a good thing should one ever park with the bike facing downhill it would make it less likely for the stand to fold back and drop the bike. Generally I just try to never park my bike pointing down slope (for that reason) and just back into any down sloped spot.

Also good when parking on a crowned surface when the ground on the left side of the bike is a little high. I hate the feeling that the bike is "teetering" just short of the balance point. As for facing downhill, well, one of the times I've dropped mine was when I left it running in neutral to go back and confer with my riding partners about which direction to head next. That slight downward slope was plenty to let the bike roll forward. And over. :angry:

Plus, it's no fun if you find you have to back out of a forward-sloping parking spot with foot power. And the surface has just a bit of gravel. Like ONE pebble.

 

[BlackStar]

Yeh, I thought about the heating issue and brittleness. But, since the majority of the weight is straight down with not alot of side stress, I am not too worried. Others have done similiar without hearing anything bad, so what the hell. But I will look at it closely now and then for a while and see if I notice any stress fractures. BTW, I let it cool naturally w/o water or oil quenching.

If anyone had a breaking problem, let us all know.

Heat treating 100 (heat treating for dummies) First of all, no manufacturer in their right mind would heat treat a sidestand: there is no reason to do so. First, heat treating is expensive, and second, it always makes metal more brittle... something you do NOT want in a sidestand. Even if it was heat treated, making any part of heat treated steel... cherry red to bend it does not make it more brittle, actually, the opposite occurs. Heating to cherry red and then letting it cool ON ITS OWN reduces hardness (and brittleness). This is a backyard form of the same thing we do when we temper steel, that is, draw DOWN the hardness a little to prevent it from being too brittle.

Certain metals can indeed become hardened by getting them good and hot and then quenching them in a liquid. For these metals, it's the sudden cooling that makes it happen. It all depends on just what is in the metal (low carbon vs high carbon etc) However, since low carbon steel is much cheaper to produce and just as strong, that's most likely what the stand is made of. And by the way, as every toolmaker knows, good luck trying to harden low carbon steel without encasing it in carbon during the heating process (carburizing, or case hardening). Your sidestand is just as strong today as it was the day it was made. Even if you beat it with a sledge hammer, all it would do... is bend. So, enjoy the fruits of your labor-you did good.

Gary

darksider #44 and retired toolmaker

Thanks for the clarification, my concern was making the metal soft. Obviuosly I don't work with metals as a career.

 

[phroenips]

Yeh, I thought about the heating issue and brittleness. But, since the majority of the weight is straight down with not alot of side stress, I am not too worried. Others have done similiar without hearing anything bad, so what the hell. But I will look at it closely now and then for a while and see if I notice any stress fractures. BTW, I let it cool naturally w/o water or oil quenching.

If anyone had a breaking problem, let us all know.

Heat treating 100 (heat treating for dummies) First of all, no manufacturer in their right mind would heat treat a sidestand: there is no reason to do so. First, heat treating is expensive, and second, it always makes metal more brittle... something you do NOT want in a sidestand. Even if it was heat treated, making any part of heat treated steel... cherry red to bend it does not make it more brittle, actually, the opposite occurs. Heating to cherry red and then letting it cool ON ITS OWN reduces hardness (and brittleness). This is a backyard form of the same thing we do when we temper steel, that is, draw DOWN the hardness a little to prevent it from being too brittle.

Certain metals can indeed become hardened by getting them good and hot and then quenching them in a liquid. For these metals, it's the sudden cooling that makes it happen. It all depends on just what is in the metal (low carbon vs high carbon etc) However, since low carbon steel is much cheaper to produce and just as strong, that's most likely what the stand is made of. And by the way, as every toolmaker knows, good luck trying to harden low carbon steel without encasing it in carbon during the heating process (carburizing, or case hardening). Your sidestand is just as strong today as it was the day it was made. Even if you beat it with a sledge hammer, all it would do... is bend. So, enjoy the fruits of your labor-you did good.

Gary

darksider #44 and retired toolmaker

So many good mini-lessons Gary! Thanks!

 

[Bounce]

Thanks for the clarification, my concern was making the metal soft. Obviuosly I don't work with metals as a career.

that's annealing.