Sill Running Like Crap!

[HotRodZilla]

Damn Ross... I feel for ya an agree. I don't think these two are related. The new stuff sounds spider related.

Best of luck man.

Oh Gawd, youre such a kiss ***. Of course the issues are related. The crappy running issue is most likely not a mechanical issue, such as valves, gears, fuel, or something unrelated to the electrics. It sounds electrical, and now the bike is doing more weird electrical ****. Ross, you're either gonna have to chase this down yourself or take it to a dealer and hope its something Yamaha should have addressed in the recall and taken responsibility for.

I could pull stuff apart and get to the spiders, but beyond that, it'd have to go to a dealer. Good luck.

 

[RossKean]

The engine running poorly in the wet was, I'm fairly sure, a matter of water somehow getting sucked into the fuel system (charcoal canister, or tank venting problem) or a high voltage issue. This isn't the same, and was observed even with the engine off. There isn't a Yamaha dealer within 200 miles that I would trust to to do more than change the oil, let alone diagnose and repair an elusive electrical issue.

To me, this current thing seems like a grounding (spider) related issue. I specifically posted in a new and separate thread to try to get some advice on where I should start looking i.e. which spider. I also asked about the ignition switch since I know very little about this as a past problem and have no idea whether it could cause the current symptoms. If an ignition switch problem could cause lights and indicators to behave as though posessed, then I might concede that it could also have something to do with engine operation problems when wet.

 

[Donal]

Definitely sounds like a 'grounding' issue. It's (almost) certainly one or more of the spiders under the front cowling. So, it's a cowling off job, open each spider in turn and carefully check for any signs of discolouration, burning etc. When I do mine (yearly) - I open them, check them and then spray with ACF50. Haven't had a problem so far

Interestingly, I am not aware of any reports of spider failures in the UK (I am sure I am about to be proved wrong here)!

Good luck with it

Don

 

[BkrK12]

Ross,

After I installed the Brodie harness, following my second spider bite (after which the dealership replaced the main harness), I tried to post up a description of the changes I saw in various elements of the electrical system of the bike. That thread got buried in the multi-page spider bite thread, never to be seen again. I can tell you that various elements of the electrical system performance changed for the better after the Brodie install.

My working theory is that, even when bikes of the 06/07 vintage seem to be running fine, they are operating with marginal grounding across the entire electrical system. Now, if you have already installed a Brodie harness, this will not help you. If you haven't, installing one as a part of the spider cleanup process may be the answer to your problems.

Dan

PS My bike does not have the Yamaha approved wiring harness fix installed. After looking at the Yamaha tech bulletin, I decided the Brodie fix was much more robust and would probably help more with the total grounding system. Happily, I found that to be true.

 

[RossKean]

Ross,

After I installed the Brodie harness, following my second spider bite (after which the dealership replaced the main harness), I tried to post up a description of the changes I saw in various elements of the electrical system of the bike. That thread got buried in the multi-page spider bite thread, never to be seen again. I can tell you that various elements of the electrical system performance changed for the better after the Brodie install.

My working theory is that, even when bikes of the 06/07 vintage seem to be running fine, they are operating with marginal grounding across the entire electrical system. Now, if you have already installed a Brodie harness, this will not help you. If you haven't, installing one as a part of the spider cleanup process may be the answer to your problems.

Dan

PS My bike does not have the Yamaha approved wiring harness fix installed. After looking at the Yamaha tech bulletin, I decided the Brodie fix was much more robust and would probably help more with the total grounding system. Happily, I found that to be true.

Unfortunately, the Brodie harness is no longer available and I need to get my current issue resolved in the next couple of days. The Roadrunner system diverts power away from the most vulnerable circuits but does not seem to be a fix for an existing problem. I need to find the bad ground (if that is what's wrong) and get it fixed. Adding the Roadrunner harness is something I would consider to prevent a future re-occurrance.

Ross

 

[Harald]

I had the same symptoms with my S7 spider failure. I initially noticed occasional high beam indicator coming on even though I was running with low beams and I also had occasional split second drops in engine power (like someone switched the engine off and back on very quickly), but those don't sound like your running like crap problem. It progressed to occasionally not starting and finally hard headlight failure. When the headlights died at night near my home, I had dim turn signal indications on the dash and also high beam indicator light on the dash.

Spider S7 is above the left headlight and S8 is above the right headlight. I wish I had saved the post, but someone had posted how to remove the whole nose assembly (headlights/dash/windshield and all plastic) which is what I did. It's not that difficult -requiring removal of both side fairings, disconnecting all connectors leading to front cowl and then removing 2 bolts in front of steering that then allow the whole assembly to be lifted off the bike. Once on the bench, it allows access to the 2 spiders.

I've started a thread to track failures of spiders other than the recalled S4 HERE . There's also a link to my original failure in that thread.

 

[RossKean]

I had the same symptoms with my S7 spider failure. I initially noticed occasional high beam indicator coming on even though I was running with low beams and I also had occasional split second drops in engine power (like someone switched the engine off and back on very quickly), but those don't sound like your running like crap problem. It progressed to occasionally not starting and finally hard headlight failure. When the headlights died at night near my home, I had dim turn signal indications on the dash and also high beam indicator light on the dash.

Spider S7 is above the left headlight and S8 is above the right headlight. I wish I had saved the post, but someone had posted how to remove the whole nose assembly (headlights/dash/windshield and all plastic) which is what I did. It's not that difficult -requiring removal of both side fairings, disconnecting all connectors leading to front cowl and then removing 2 bolts in front of steering that then allow the whole assembly to be lifted off the bike. Once on the bench, it allows access to the 2 spiders.

I've started a thread to track failures of spiders other than the recalled S4 HERE . There's also a link to my original failure in that thread.

Thanks Harald. Based upon symptoms, I was thinking S7 or S8 might be the most likely candidates. These can only be reached by removing the cowl? I think I got most of the accessable ones while I was scoping out my other problems but never did get around to removing the nose plastic (a bit concerned I wouldn't get everything back together right). Didn't try to check the S4 with the recall "fix". If I find an issue with S7 or S8, I will post to your thread. Reporting to the appropriate authorities is a bit of an issue. Canadian with a US bike.

Ross

 

[Harald]

Based upon symptoms, I was thinking S7 or S8 might be the most likely candidates. These can only be reached by removing the cowl? I think I got most of the accessable ones while I was scoping out my other problems but never did get around to removing the nose plastic (a bit concerned I wouldn't get everything back together right). Didn't try to check the S4 with the recall "fix". If I find an issue with S7 or S8, I will post to your thread. Reporting to the appropriate authorities is a bit of an issue. Canadian with a US bike.

Ross

IIRC, you can barely see S7and 8 if you have panels ABCD off and they aren't tucked behind the wire bundle like mine were. I would not want to try inspecting them while the nose is still on the bike and forget trying to cut the offending spider off and soldering the wires together for a repair.

Pulling the nose sounded really intimidating to me, but wasn't too bad once I did it. All connectors are different, so no chance of reassembling any wiring wrong when reinstalling the nose.

I don't know what to say about your situation with US bike in Canada. Probably no warranty and both regulatory agencies would probably ignore you?

 

[Bounce]

The bike didn't run. The bike still doesn't run. As far as I know, I may have merged them. Seems like one thread to me:

My bike's broke

Make it clear in the subject like that you are resolved with issue 1 and starting an issue 2 thread. That should clarify any admin action.

 

[RossKean]

The bike didn't run. The bike still doesn't run. As far as I know, I may have merged them. Seems like one thread to me:

My bike's broke

Make it clear in the subject like that you are resolved with issue 1 and starting an issue 2 thread. That should clarify any admin action.

No problem. I did start a new thread and thought I made it clear by the title that it appeared to be a different problem. I will try to be more specific the next time. With the wet issue, the engine ran poorly and my latter posts on this indicated a possible resolution - I won't kinow until it happens (or doesn't happen again)

This has nothing to do with engine operation - at least so far. Appears to be grounding-related and I will dig into the possibly offending spiders tonight or tomorrow. The post was specifically to ask the most likely candidate spider for the symptoms and to ask whether ignition switch could cause anything similar. Harald has provided a place for me to start.

Ross

 

[RossKean]

Happened again on the way home. Funky signal lights and blue high beam indicator on dash panel. Warm again with stop-and-go driving. I "cycled" the ignition switch and it returned to normal??

 

[SkooterG]

It's not the ignition switch. I'd bet money on it. That just resets whatever is happening.

No offense buckaroo, but this conversation is becoming an exercise in mental masturbation.

CHECK YOUR FREAKING SPIDERS.

That is most likely the root cause and until you do so why go round and round?

 

[RossKean]

It's not the ignition switch. I'd bet money on it. That just resets whatever is happening.

No offense buckaroo, but this conversation is becoming an exercise in mental masturbation.

CHECK YOUR FREAKING SPIDERS.

That is most likely the root cause and until you do so why go round and round?

I HAVE checked the reasonably easily accessed FREAKING SPIDERS!!! I am currently working on pulling off the nose plastic to get at S7 and S8. That's all thats left unless the Yamaha recall "fix" for S4 is FUBAR.

 

[RossKean]

It's not the ignition switch. I'd bet money on it. That just resets whatever is happening.

No offense buckaroo, but this conversation is becoming an exercise in mental masturbation.

CHECK YOUR FREAKING SPIDERS.

That is most likely the root cause and until you do so why go round and round?

I HAVE checked the reasonably easily accessed FREAKING SPIDERS!!! I am currently working on pulling off the nose plastic to get at S7 and S8. That's all thats left unless the Yamaha recall "fix" for S4 is FUBAR.

S7 and S8 check out OK. I think the only one I haven't looked at is the S4 that was supposed to be fixed already. That's next.

TOMORROW!

 

[RossKean]

Took everything apart. As mentioned above, S7 and S8 checked out OK. I checked out all the connectors behind the front cowl and no issues at all. I decided to go back and re-check some of the spiders. When I did some checking a couple of weeks ago, one of the spiders (S6) had a mildly tarnished leg. I cleaned it up and greased the socket at that time. This was after the first occurrence of possessed panel lights. Today, I pulled the spider from the socket again and it looked OK. Then I flipped over the socket and saw a burned spot on the back side. Not melted but definitely toasted. Cut it off and stripped back the wires - the copper in the wire going to the burned contact was tarnished indicating it had been running hot. Twisted all six wires together and soldered them. At this point, I am cautiously optimistic that the problem is fixed. I will keep a very close eye on indicators and panel lights for the next few weeks.

(Tearing into the nose of the bike was easier than expected! Just takes some time.)

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Hopefully, case closed.

Ross

 

[SkooterG]

Took everything apart. As mentioned above, S7 and S8 checked out OK. I checked out all the connectors behind the front cowl and no issues at all. I decided to go back and re-check some of the spiders. When I did some checking a couple of weeks ago, one of the spiders (S6) had a mildly tarnished leg. I cleaned it up and greased the socket at that time. This was after the first occurrence of possessed panel lights. Today, I pulled the spider from the socket again and it looked OK. Then I flipped over the socket and saw a burned spot on the back side. Not melted but definitely toasted. Cut it off and stripped back the wires - the copper in the wire going to the burned contact was tarnished indicating it had been running hot. Twisted all six wires together and soldered them. At this point, I am cautiously optimistic that the problem is fixed. I will keep a very close eye on indicators and panel lights for the next few weeks.

(Tearing into the nose of the bike was easier than expected! Just takes some time.)

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Hopefully, case closed.

Ross

Told you so!

Neener, neener, neener!

Glad (and hoping) everything has been resolved. Including your wet-weather issues.

 

[RossKean]

Just a quick update. It has been 2200 miles since I fixed the S6 spider and ~3000 miles since my last rain running episode. No more wonky panel lights and 20 hours of riding in the rain last weekend without incident.

I believe the spider issue was totally separate from the crappy running in the rain but I may never know for sure. I think the past week has restored my faith in the bike's reliability.

I appreciate all the help and suggestions.

Ross

 

[Niehart]

:thumbsupsmileyanim: :yahoo:

 

[dcarver]

Fingers crossed!

 

[SkooterG]

Shall I say it again?