slippy clutch until engine warms up

[Stranger in a Strange Land]

Sorry if this has been answered. I looked, but didn't find any threads about this specifically.

My new (2900 mi) 2009ae clutch slips after it has sat long enough to cool down. Outside temperature doesn't matter. Its worst in first gear and its bad in second gear. Once she warms up, the gears operate fine.

At my 600 mile service, the dealer said its probably normal. I really hate it so I hope its not normal. I'm just not sure I like the electric shift.

I'm going in for my 3000 mile service this week so ill ask them about it again. This isnt normal as they told me is it? Any advice?

 

[08FJR4ME]

I am not an AE rider but it doesn't sound normal to me. This may be a dumb question but what are the using for oil? I would hope they are putting the right stuff in.

Dave

 

[Geezer]

Your dealer said it's probably normal?

Sounds like he doesn't know and doesn't want to find out. Is he going to cover a new clutch under warranty if it turns out to not be normal? I don't have an AE, but it doesn't sound normal to me. It sounds like something is out of adjustment.

 

[wfooshee]

The oil question, if you don't know, is based on the fact that oil that has the "Energy Conserving" rating should not be used in motorcycles. The friction modifiers that give it that rating are no good in the clutch.

As for slipping cold but not after warming up, I'm not knowledgeable enough to guess reason, unless the idle is way too high, and the cold engine is running at a speed high enough to keep the clutch partially disengaged.

 

[mcatrophy]

Sorry if this has been answered. I looked, but didn't find any threads about this specifically.

My new (2900 mi) 2009ae clutch slips after it has sat long enough to cool down. Outside temperature doesn't matter. Its worst in first gear and its bad in second gear. Once she warms up, the gears operate fine.

At my 600 mile service, the dealer said its probably normal. I really hate it so I hope its not normal. I'm just not sure I like the electric shift.

I'm going in for my 3000 mile service this week so ill ask them about it again. This isnt normal as they told me is it? Any advice?

I suspect it's normal.

When the engine is cold, it operates with a fast idle that is above the normal clutch engagement speed, so when cold the engagement speed is raised.

This means that if you move off with a cold engine, the clutch does slip until the engine reaches a much higher speed than you would normally be changing up into 2nd; if you do change it continues to slip in second or even third, because the engine speed is still below the (cold) fast full engagement speed.

I am also under the impression that the engagement speed doesn't drop until you have the engine at idle when warm (say waiting at traffic lights).

When starting from cold I always let mine idle until at least one bar shows in the temperature gauge and the idle speed has dropped to near warm normal.

Test: from a cold engine, move off in first, don't change gear, hold the throttle open to keep gently accelerating, the engine speed will remain constant, probably around 2500 (but depends on your throttle setting), until the clutch finally engages, then the engine speed will rise with the road speed. If this happens, it sounds normal. (You may have trouble in a urban environment doing this because of traffic and stuff, at least I know I would near me!)

[edit] whilst posting this, others have replied, but none have an AE (or AS this side of the pond), I would wait for others of we enlightened YCC-S FJR owners to reply.[/edit]

 

[RadioHowie]

Pay attention to this ^^^^ guy...

Mark knows his FJR AE/AS *****!

 

[64Y80]

Yup, that's how mine operates. When first starting off, even with 1 bar showing, clutch engagement starts at a higher rpm than after it's warmed up fully.

 

[Stranger in a Strange Land]

I suspect it's normal.

When the engine is cold, it operates with a fast idle that is above the normal clutch engagement speed, so when cold the engagement speed is raised.

This means that if you move off with a cold engine, the clutch does slip until the engine reaches a much higher speed than you would normally be changing up into 2nd; if you do change it continues to slip in second or even third, because the engine speed is still below the (cold) fast full engagement speed.

I am also under the impression that the engagement speed doesn't drop until you have the engine at idle when warm (say waiting at traffic lights).

When starting from cold I always let mine idle until at least one bar shows in the temperature gauge and the idle speed has dropped to near warm normal.

Test: from a cold engine, move off in first, don't change gear, hold the throttle open to keep gently accelerating, the engine speed will remain constant, probably around 2500 (but depends on your throttle setting), until the clutch finally engages, then the engine speed will rise with the road speed. If this happens, it sounds normal. (You may have trouble in a urban environment doing this because of traffic and stuff, at least I know I would near me!)

[edit] whilst posting this, others have replied, but none have an AE (or AS this side of the pond), I would wait for others of we enlightened YCC-S FJR owners to reply.[/edit]

Thanks. That makes some sense. Wait. Not really. Lol. So engagement rpm is higher when cold, to account for higher idle rpm when cold, if i understood correctly. BUT shouldn't the RELATIVE increase in rpm caused by twisting the throttle, still engage the clutch immediately?

 

[wfooshee]

That's why they asked about how and where it's slipping. Is it still slipping as you get up into 3 and 4 grand? Even 5? Shouldn't be.

 

[mcatrophy]

...

Test: from a cold engine, move off in first, don't change gear, hold the throttle open to keep gently accelerating, the engine speed will remain constant, probably around 2500 (but depends on your throttle setting), until the clutch finally engages, then the engine speed will rise with the road speed. If this happens, it sounds normal. (You may have trouble in a urban environment doing this because of traffic and stuff, at least I know I would near me!)

...

Thanks. That makes some sense. Wait. Not really. Lol. So engagement rpm is higher when cold, to account for higher idle rpm when cold, if i understood correctly. BUT shouldn't the RELATIVE increase in rpm caused by twisting the throttle, still engage the clutch immediately?

I can't tell you exactly what the rpm is that it will engage at, but it is uncomfortably high. It is probably around 4000rpm, that's about 28mph in 1st gear. Try the test I suggested above, you won't break anything, if the clutch doesn't engage by the time you're doing 40 mph (approaching 6000 rpm) then I'd say you have a problem.

The real difficulty is that when it is slipping in 1st and you want to change up because the revs are high and you are moving, it inevitably slips in 2nd because the "road speed" revs are even lower, so it just carries on slipping.

I'm sort of hoping the Gen III will allow the clutch to engage more when you aren't trying to put much torque through, I'm certain it could be done. That also goes for slow traffic trickling, I see no reason why it couldn't engage fully provided you are above the disengage speed. But that's another issue.

 

[CrabbyJack]

Pages 8-171 to 8-201 in the official FSM describe how to read and or adjust the YCCS. Page 8-179 describes how to manually adjust the clutch engagement point using the diagnostic mode on the multi function display. Each click of the shifter switch, up or down, will change the clutch engagement point approximately 100-150 rpm. IIRC you do not want to set it all the way down to 0 as the clutch "could" engage below the starting idle rpm, sending you on your ride as soon as the engine starts. SH__66 is the mode you want to look for. If your problem started suddenly, I wouldn't think that the clutch engagement position would be your answer. I'd be looking at sloppy/binding linkages or old clutch fluid or something like that.

CrabbyJack

 

[mcatrophy]

Pages 8-171 to 8-201 in the official FSM describe how to read and or adjust the YCCS. Page 8-179 describes how to manually adjust the clutch engagement point using the diagnostic mode on the multi function display. Each click of the shifter switch, up or down, will change the clutch engagement point approximately 100-150 rpm. IIRC you do not want to set it all the way down to 0 as the clutch "could" engage below the starting idle rpm, sending you on your ride as soon as the engine starts. SH__66 is the mode you want to look for. If your problem started suddenly, I wouldn't think that the clutch engagement position would be your answer. I'd be looking at sloppy/binding linkages or old clutch fluid or something like that.

CrabbyJack

The adjustment only really affects the normal warm operating point for clutch engagement/disengagement, I doubt it'll make any noticeable affect to the cold.

I think the computer monitors the engine speed after starting to decide on "normal" or "cold" operation, rather than simply the engine temperature. This is also backed up by my experience of my two AS bikes. My '06 engine speed dropped to near normal by the time one bar appeared on the gauge, and engaged its clutch accordingly. My '10 doesn't get to normal engine speed until well after the second bar shows, and this is reflected in its engagement speed.

To add to the mix, if you start the bike in gear but with the throttle held open so the engine revs up, it won't engage the clutch, even when warm. Prevents unexpected rapid take-offs

. (I've not "explored" this characteristic.)

In other words, as the idle speed falls, so does the engagement speed, regardless of the temperature of the engine.

 

[brookswalls]

2 bars and works normal

 

[jtnwevo]

If I don't let my 07AE warm up to at least 1 bar the clutch does slip some at take off. Been that way since day 1. Have 50k miles on it now. I use Rotella 15-40.

Have you bled the clutch? Maybe there is some air in the line?