gixxerjasen
Well-known member
Well, that explains THAT! Now I know where all the small briskets are shipped to. I had to dig through a freezer bin full of briskets to find me a teeny tiny 12 pounder here in Texas.
Smokers (BBQ - not grilling)
- Thread starter Fred W
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Not a full brisket, mine's just the flat. I don't think you can find a whole packer less than 12 lbs. I read somewhere that the larger the brisket the older (and potentially tougher) the steer was.
Up at 4AM and my flat went on the smoker at 4:45. Temp control actually seems a bit better than usual with the diffuser plate in place and the thermo probe on the new upper rack location. Still longing for a BBQ Guru for this UDS.
@rushes - On an electric smoker you would control the power to the heater not the air flow like a solid fuel burner.
That homebrew heater controller is exactly what you need.
Up at 4AM and my flat went on the smoker at 4:45. Temp control actually seems a bit better than usual with the diffuser plate in place and the thermo probe on the new upper rack location. Still longing for a BBQ Guru for this UDS.
@rushes - On an electric smoker you would control the power to the heater not the air flow like a solid fuel burner.
That homebrew heater controller is exactly what you need.
rushes
Well-known member
Knifemaker
Not me
Thank Google.
I just typed in "electric grill tempature control" and that popped up.The Variac would be another way to go, but you'd also still need to get a decent digital tempature probe...which really, you should get anyway....
It got a little rainy around here yesterday. Good day to be fiddling with a smoker since the riding would have been less than stellar. I have one of those sunsetter roll out awnings over the deck, but it doesn't cover the concrete area the grills sit on, so I rigged up a little bivvy / fly over the Ugly Drum to keep the things dry.
Could use a slightly larger fly next time. This one is the footprint that I use under my 7' x 9' tent. Also, note the UDS is at full temp here and the lack of any visible smoke. This will be important later on.
Up at 4 AM, fired up the smoker and had it up to temp and the meat on the rack before 5. The cooking went pretty much to plan, except I was fighting temperature swings throughout the whole day. BBQ Guru will be bought before my next long smoke.
I had filled the charcoal basket with Royal Oak lump charcoal with about 8 good sized chunks of Mesquite interspersed in the upper layers of char. I'd never used Mesquite before and heard it can produce a more pungent flavor, so didn't want to go overboard. Apparently, that was a little conservative.
Was up to about 160F internal in ~ 8 hours, so I foil wrapped it for the drive to the top. Was planning to go for 203F, but when I was poking the thermo probe around the meat was feeling pretty soft and didn't want a lump of mush, so I unwrapped it at 198F, and firmed it up with the pit temp a little higher (265 F) to dry the bark. Due to the lack of smoke, and to some extent the crutching, the bark never developed full blackness. It still looked mighty good here about 1/2 hour before I pulled it off.
You can see in the above photo how high the rack is now when in the upper position. I can get away with this because I have a Weber (clone) dome lid for it. It would be too high if using a flat lid. You can also see the Diffuser Plate (Rev 2.0) that I made from a cheap Walmart 16" pizza pan, down on the bottom rack, which is about 5" above the top edge of the charcoal basket. You can also see the screw heads indicating the 3 rack heights in the 1st photo of the whole smoker.
The diffuser plate seemed to work as intended, but I think I will hole saw a few more holes in the outermost ring. It was forcing too much heat and smoke out against the outside wall of the drum and the center was actually a bit too cool. That also contributed to the lack of blackness on the brisket, no doubt.
Well, as they say, the proof is in the pudding:
This was (by far) may best attempt at Texas Brisket. The meat was still moist and tender, while not being too soft and mushy (like a pot roast). Flavor was clean and the bark was spicy and tasty. I had used Big Bad Beef rub, and sprinkled some more on after the crutch.
It did not have much of a smoke ring, the bark could have been firmer, and the smoke flavor could have been amped up a notch. But all in all it was quite tasty and everyone enjoyed the meal a lot.
In the lessons learned department: I believe that a lot of the smoke flavor and smoke ring that we get are from using charcoal briquettes. Since I was cooking with lump charcoal, that stuff burns so cleanly it really doesn't impart much if any smoke flavor on its own. So, I'll have to load up more flavoring wood chunks, and distribute them throughout the entire basket of char. The flavor was much cleaner than prior attempts using Kingsford, so that was a plus.
And the other lesson was that I really need to spend the money on an electronic stoker if I'm going to be doing any more of these 12 hour marathon cooks. I was trying to rest the leg I banged up dual sporting last week and was up and down adjusting the air inlet every 15-20 minutes.
Could use a slightly larger fly next time. This one is the footprint that I use under my 7' x 9' tent. Also, note the UDS is at full temp here and the lack of any visible smoke. This will be important later on.
Up at 4 AM, fired up the smoker and had it up to temp and the meat on the rack before 5. The cooking went pretty much to plan, except I was fighting temperature swings throughout the whole day. BBQ Guru will be bought before my next long smoke.
I had filled the charcoal basket with Royal Oak lump charcoal with about 8 good sized chunks of Mesquite interspersed in the upper layers of char. I'd never used Mesquite before and heard it can produce a more pungent flavor, so didn't want to go overboard. Apparently, that was a little conservative.
Was up to about 160F internal in ~ 8 hours, so I foil wrapped it for the drive to the top. Was planning to go for 203F, but when I was poking the thermo probe around the meat was feeling pretty soft and didn't want a lump of mush, so I unwrapped it at 198F, and firmed it up with the pit temp a little higher (265 F) to dry the bark. Due to the lack of smoke, and to some extent the crutching, the bark never developed full blackness. It still looked mighty good here about 1/2 hour before I pulled it off.
You can see in the above photo how high the rack is now when in the upper position. I can get away with this because I have a Weber (clone) dome lid for it. It would be too high if using a flat lid. You can also see the Diffuser Plate (Rev 2.0) that I made from a cheap Walmart 16" pizza pan, down on the bottom rack, which is about 5" above the top edge of the charcoal basket. You can also see the screw heads indicating the 3 rack heights in the 1st photo of the whole smoker.
The diffuser plate seemed to work as intended, but I think I will hole saw a few more holes in the outermost ring. It was forcing too much heat and smoke out against the outside wall of the drum and the center was actually a bit too cool. That also contributed to the lack of blackness on the brisket, no doubt.
Well, as they say, the proof is in the pudding:
This was (by far) may best attempt at Texas Brisket. The meat was still moist and tender, while not being too soft and mushy (like a pot roast). Flavor was clean and the bark was spicy and tasty. I had used Big Bad Beef rub, and sprinkled some more on after the crutch.
It did not have much of a smoke ring, the bark could have been firmer, and the smoke flavor could have been amped up a notch. But all in all it was quite tasty and everyone enjoyed the meal a lot.
In the lessons learned department: I believe that a lot of the smoke flavor and smoke ring that we get are from using charcoal briquettes. Since I was cooking with lump charcoal, that stuff burns so cleanly it really doesn't impart much if any smoke flavor on its own. So, I'll have to load up more flavoring wood chunks, and distribute them throughout the entire basket of char. The flavor was much cleaner than prior attempts using Kingsford, so that was a plus.
And the other lesson was that I really need to spend the money on an electronic stoker if I'm going to be doing any more of these 12 hour marathon cooks. I was trying to rest the leg I banged up dual sporting last week and was up and down adjusting the air inlet every 15-20 minutes.
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El Toro Joe
FYYFF
Looks good to me...
Vera nize. Thanks for the write up.
Also, spot on observation about Kingsford (IMO).
Either to respectfully disagree or to show I misunderstood: I use nothing but lump charcoal and flavoring wood chips. However I soak those chips in water for at least a half an hour before using them and toss them on the going coals about 5 minutes before the cuts of meat go on. The water extends the life of the chips during the cook. My smoke rings have been pretty consistently good. More smoke is by more chips at a time (or added over time). The first 3 hours are the important ones to get smoke penetration.
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Knifemaker
Not me
Yeah, I'll use more than 8 "good sized chunks" just for a six rib cook. I did notice that the Mesquite didn't produce as much smoke as the Hickory chunks...and I've heard that not all Mesquite is the same (and sometimes not even Mesquite)....so I always use a mix of woods, Mesquite and Apple, Hickory and Cherry, and Hickory and Mesquite...
The guy that built my smoker says he uses chips...soaked ....but wraps them in foil and pokes some holes in foil. I tried that but didn't like having the used up foil taking up space in the FB. I'm sold on the lump charcoal, never going to use briquettes again other than a handful at the bottom of my starter chimney to get the first lumps going good.
I add wood as I go, have not tried mixing them up with the coals...they just seem to produce a cleaner smoke quicker when tossed on top of hot coals then being buried under them. For doing such a long cook like you did I'd do as Bounce suggested and keep adding the wood for the first 3-4 hours...even "dry" wood has some moisture I think, so I'm not too concerned over a short time of "white" smoke.
But really, smoke or not, if the meats tender and juicy, all is good.
The guy that built my smoker says he uses chips...soaked ....but wraps them in foil and pokes some holes in foil. I tried that but didn't like having the used up foil taking up space in the FB. I'm sold on the lump charcoal, never going to use briquettes again other than a handful at the bottom of my starter chimney to get the first lumps going good.
I add wood as I go, have not tried mixing them up with the coals...they just seem to produce a cleaner smoke quicker when tossed on top of hot coals then being buried under them. For doing such a long cook like you did I'd do as Bounce suggested and keep adding the wood for the first 3-4 hours...even "dry" wood has some moisture I think, so I'm not too concerned over a short time of "white" smoke.
But really, smoke or not, if the meats tender and juicy, all is good.
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I start my chimney with some wadded newspaper (advert pages sent in junk mail work as long as it's newsprint since that's now all veggie oils) drizzled with veg oil. place it iaround the bottom, lay the lump charcoal on top, light from the bottom. No need to keep briquettes on hand any more.
Careful with the mesquite. It burns hot and can ruin a good smoke if used too much without close monitoring. We have moved toward hickory for the more robust smokes and apple for mild meat like pork tenderloin.
After the smokiest first 3 hours, I will go to just lump charcoal (without flavoring chips/chunks at all). Once you get a ball park, you can load up a full run of charcoal, place the soaked chips/chunks on top and let it run; checking it only for fuel before heading to bed and topping it off if you need to. That's the advantage of a kamodo style cooker (like a BGE, etc.). They are very efficient and, when well insulated, are very stable (just don't overshoot your cooking temp or you can spend an hour or more getting to cool back down).
Careful with the mesquite. It burns hot and can ruin a good smoke if used too much without close monitoring. We have moved toward hickory for the more robust smokes and apple for mild meat like pork tenderloin.
After the smokiest first 3 hours, I will go to just lump charcoal (without flavoring chips/chunks at all). Once you get a ball park, you can load up a full run of charcoal, place the soaked chips/chunks on top and let it run; checking it only for fuel before heading to bed and topping it off if you need to. That's the advantage of a kamodo style cooker (like a BGE, etc.). They are very efficient and, when well insulated, are very stable (just don't overshoot your cooking temp or you can spend an hour or more getting to cool back down).
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gixxerjasen
Well-known member
I use a chimney for starting. I drop a folded up piece of paper towel in the bottom and stack the lump charcoal on top. The paper towel will catch the small bits and the powder. Then I drizzle vegetable oil in from the top, which is also caught by the paper towel. Then I wad two paper towels up loosely and stuff them under the chimney and light them. I have a good blaze going in a short time. Works well for me every time without having to keep something else on hand that isn't already hanging out in the kitchen. And no, I don't subscribe to the paper.
Yeah, adding more flavoring wood after you start the process is a serious PITA with any vertical smoker like a UDS or WSM. You have to take the meat off and pull out the grates and deflector just to get at the fire. Only way to avoid all that would be to cut a firebox access door, but that would open the drum up to possible air leakage and loss of temp control.
For a long smoke I would fill the basket about 1/2 way, throw a few chunks of wood in, then more charcoal, more chunks, etc. You have to guess the right amount of wood up front.
I've always used a starter chimney and news paper and then just dumped the lit coals on the top of the unlit ones in the pit basket. Just a couple sheets of the local free-paper does the trick to get it started in the chimney for me. Now that I've switched to lump, I've noticed that a starter chimney 1/2 full of lump char gets going really fast and really hot.
I did not mean to say that you couldn't get a good smoke ring without using briquettes. You just (apparently) need to use much more wood than what I had been using before with the briquettes.
And on the idea of using more wood, I was fiddling around with my offset smoker yesterday and decided to try my hand at stick burning. My wife had bought a split Turkey Breast (before she knew I bought the brisket) so I decided to fire up the OK Joe and cook that up. Turkey breasts cook pretty quickly, and being relatively mild would be a good barometer of flavors good or bad. Also this would be the first time using the 3" exhaust tailpipe extension (painted it black).
In retrospect, it seems to me that this stick burning isn't all that tough. I started a full chimney of charcoal, and when that was going good dumped that into the empty firebox on the regular grate (took out the minion box). Laid on a few dry splits I had on the woodpile that were trimmings from the flowering cherry tree we have in the front yard.
I had watched a YouTube video about stick burning, and the author makes a point of not loading too much wood on at once. That seems to be the key to not over heating. My splits were all pretty short, only 6-8" long and maybe 2 - 3" wide on average. You can see a few pre-warming on top of the firebox above. I found that adding two or three sticks at a time was about the right amount. Leave the door open a crack until the wood is burning good, then close it and cut back the air to keep the temp in check.
Yeah, it's more work than set it and forget it, but it ain't no rocket surgery. The turkey breast was done (165F internal) in about 3 hours time. All in all, I would say it isn't all that much more work than burning charcoal in the offset, except for splitting the wood. Then again, the wood was free, so that's a bonus.
Just slathered the 1/2 Breast (bone in) with EVOO and sprinkled with Camp Mix before slapping it on the grill.
Regardless of how it looks, the skin is inedible and rubbery, as it always is when smoking. I think next time I may just skin the bird before putting it on so the flesh can pick up the color and flavor. The parts that were uncovered by skin were better than those that were covered.
Wife and I had the turkey for dinner last night. It was nice and moist and had a fine smoke flavor. Not rough or offensive at all. I was worried about too much creosote during the cooking, actually had some oozing down from the gap in the exhaust pipe extension, but it was not present in the flavor of the meat in the least.
So, from now on, for shorter cooks, anything 6 hours or less, stick burning in the offset seems like the best way to go for me.
For a long smoke I would fill the basket about 1/2 way, throw a few chunks of wood in, then more charcoal, more chunks, etc. You have to guess the right amount of wood up front.
I've always used a starter chimney and news paper and then just dumped the lit coals on the top of the unlit ones in the pit basket. Just a couple sheets of the local free-paper does the trick to get it started in the chimney for me. Now that I've switched to lump, I've noticed that a starter chimney 1/2 full of lump char gets going really fast and really hot.
I did not mean to say that you couldn't get a good smoke ring without using briquettes. You just (apparently) need to use much more wood than what I had been using before with the briquettes.
And on the idea of using more wood, I was fiddling around with my offset smoker yesterday and decided to try my hand at stick burning. My wife had bought a split Turkey Breast (before she knew I bought the brisket) so I decided to fire up the OK Joe and cook that up. Turkey breasts cook pretty quickly, and being relatively mild would be a good barometer of flavors good or bad. Also this would be the first time using the 3" exhaust tailpipe extension (painted it black).
In retrospect, it seems to me that this stick burning isn't all that tough. I started a full chimney of charcoal, and when that was going good dumped that into the empty firebox on the regular grate (took out the minion box). Laid on a few dry splits I had on the woodpile that were trimmings from the flowering cherry tree we have in the front yard.
I had watched a YouTube video about stick burning, and the author makes a point of not loading too much wood on at once. That seems to be the key to not over heating. My splits were all pretty short, only 6-8" long and maybe 2 - 3" wide on average. You can see a few pre-warming on top of the firebox above. I found that adding two or three sticks at a time was about the right amount. Leave the door open a crack until the wood is burning good, then close it and cut back the air to keep the temp in check.
Yeah, it's more work than set it and forget it, but it ain't no rocket surgery. The turkey breast was done (165F internal) in about 3 hours time. All in all, I would say it isn't all that much more work than burning charcoal in the offset, except for splitting the wood. Then again, the wood was free, so that's a bonus.
Just slathered the 1/2 Breast (bone in) with EVOO and sprinkled with Camp Mix before slapping it on the grill.
Regardless of how it looks, the skin is inedible and rubbery, as it always is when smoking. I think next time I may just skin the bird before putting it on so the flesh can pick up the color and flavor. The parts that were uncovered by skin were better than those that were covered.
Wife and I had the turkey for dinner last night. It was nice and moist and had a fine smoke flavor. Not rough or offensive at all. I was worried about too much creosote during the cooking, actually had some oozing down from the gap in the exhaust pipe extension, but it was not present in the flavor of the meat in the least.
So, from now on, for shorter cooks, anything 6 hours or less, stick burning in the offset seems like the best way to go for me.
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The creosote may be from burning green wood. Let it dry for about 6 months to a year before using it and that should solve that problem.
Thanks for the tip on removing the skin on yardbirds before smoking them.
Thanks for the tip on removing the skin on yardbirds before smoking them.
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Knifemaker
Not me
To be clear, I only am using the briquettes in the starter chiminey because I just happen to have them, and they help catch he odd shaped pieces of lump charcoal that would fall through the chiminey's grate. I'm not going to buy more when what I have is gone...
Oddly, I was just thinking about doing a "stick" smoke. When I was adding a chunks to my coals I wondered how much different this really is then just burning wood to start with. All I have to do is pull out the charcoal basket and I can get the fire started up in the bottom of the ash pan. I got a lot of wood here, mostly white oak, and shag bark hickory. Just bought a chain saw too...
Lump is just scrap wood they charred up, and you're never really sure what kind of wood it is. Sometimes it's not even wood, first bag of lump I got had a rock a bit bigger than a softball in it. Second bag had a baseball sized rock, and a piece of unburnt plywood in it....
Oddly, I was just thinking about doing a "stick" smoke. When I was adding a chunks to my coals I wondered how much different this really is then just burning wood to start with. All I have to do is pull out the charcoal basket and I can get the fire started up in the bottom of the ash pan. I got a lot of wood here, mostly white oak, and shag bark hickory. Just bought a chain saw too...
Lump is just scrap wood they charred up, and you're never really sure what kind of wood it is. Sometimes it's not even wood, first bag of lump I got had a rock a bit bigger than a softball in it. Second bag had a baseball sized rock, and a piece of unburnt plywood in it....
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I didn't burn green wood. The cherry tree trimmings have been cut and stacked for well over a year in anticipation of using them to cook with some day. It was as dry as air dried wood gets.
Burning wood slowly, whether dry or not, creates creosote, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Wet wood throws off more because the wood doesn't burn as hot. Creosote is just the condensation of the smoke particles along with whatever water vapor is released. Even dry wood has ~ 5% water by weight. I think I was seeing some seepage from the pipe joint because the extended pipe is not all that hot with the smoker running at 225F, so the exhaust condensed on the inside of the pipe. I took the extension off for a while at the end and it seemed to burn just as good, so not sure if I'll stick with it or not,
I see no problem with starting with briquettes, You'd wait until they are all fully engulfed and ashed over, and no longer giving off the nasty white smoke before tossing them into the fire box, right? If so, sounds like a good use for the two bags of blue I have sitting in my shed right now.
All the stuff you see about how hard smoking with a wood fire is seems a bit exaggerated to me now. Yes you do have to tend it. All you need is enough beer and you're good to go. I mean... Who doesn't like playing with fires?
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TomInPA
Well-known member
Creosote comes from any organic volatiles that form in the absence of oxygen. The fumes are condensable and will form "creosote" on any cold surface, including meat. Keeping smoke in the smoker too long or allowing it to cool to the condensation point before exhausting is where the problem lies. The solution is to keep smoke lighter and the temperature more uniform...good luck! I still get it sometimes.
Doing two pork Boston Butts today. How anyone figured a shoulder cut should be a "butt" sure stimies me, but the price is right. These will be cooking into the evening since they didn't start until noon.
Doing two pork Boston Butts today. How anyone figured a shoulder cut should be a "butt" sure stimies me, but the price is right. These will be cooking into the evening since they didn't start until noon.
The name "Butt" came because back in colonial times they would pack the cheaper cuts in barrels, known as Butts. Boston was an area big for pork production back then, hence the cheapest cuts (not the ones "high on the hog") became known as Boston Butts. Now it is the upper part of the shoulder, while the lower part is the Picnic Roast.
PS - Those "organic volatiles" are how we smoke meat.
PS - Those "organic volatiles" are how we smoke meat.
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Knifemaker
Not me
Pork info for those that want it:
https://amazingribs.com/recipes/porknography/pork_cuts.html#tenderloin
Before I got the smoker I picked up a Boston Butt at the supermarket because it was on sale for like 60 cents a pound, and it was a abit over a 5 pound butt. After I looked up what it was, I tossed it in the freezer and forgot about it. One day we were cleaning out the freezer I found it again. Rather than just toss it in the garbage, I put it in the fridge and let it thaw out some. After a day or two, we were gong out to a vineyard for a day, so I put the butt in a crock pot with half a bottle of red wine, an whole chopped garlic bulb, a handful of carrots and some olive oil. Covered it up, set the knob to "low" and we left.
Fast foreword... 10 hours later when we came home, the two of us pretty much finished the whole thing off. I think I'd like to try smoking one before I tackle a brisqutte.....
https://amazingribs.com/recipes/porknography/pork_cuts.html#tenderloin
Before I got the smoker I picked up a Boston Butt at the supermarket because it was on sale for like 60 cents a pound, and it was a abit over a 5 pound butt. After I looked up what it was, I tossed it in the freezer and forgot about it. One day we were cleaning out the freezer I found it again. Rather than just toss it in the garbage, I put it in the fridge and let it thaw out some. After a day or two, we were gong out to a vineyard for a day, so I put the butt in a crock pot with half a bottle of red wine, an whole chopped garlic bulb, a handful of carrots and some olive oil. Covered it up, set the knob to "low" and we left.
Fast foreword... 10 hours later when we came home, the two of us pretty much finished the whole thing off. I think I'd like to try smoking one before I tackle a brisqutte.....
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I've done both now, the butts (they are usually boneless around here) and the picnics bone in. I prefer the picnics, but that's mostly cause we get em with the bones. They both seem to run about the same price per pound as with the picnics you are paying for the bone, with the butts we pay for the butcher to trim.. Either way, pork is dirt cheap compared to beef. I paid $5.99 for my brisket, trimmed a crap load of fat off before cooking, and the thing shrunk on the smoker by at least 1/3rd in weight. Cows are sloppy, fatty animals. Pigs are sloppy too, but pork fat tastes much better than rendered beef lard. Just my opinion.
Cooking a pork butt or picnic is the easiest long smoke you could imagine. Just toss it on there, keep the fire going, and be patient enough to wait the 12 to 16 hours it will take to become delicious. It's not that finicky either, since you basically want to over cook it, until it falls apart and "the meat falls off the bone". Lots of other things we cook are more persnickety requiring more precise timing and special treatment.
I guess that's why many consider a good Brisket as the epitome of BBQ. Not because the eating is any better (though my wife might argue that) but because it is a bit more challenging than cooking pork well.
Cooking a pork butt or picnic is the easiest long smoke you could imagine. Just toss it on there, keep the fire going, and be patient enough to wait the 12 to 16 hours it will take to become delicious. It's not that finicky either, since you basically want to over cook it, until it falls apart and "the meat falls off the bone". Lots of other things we cook are more persnickety requiring more precise timing and special treatment.
I guess that's why many consider a good Brisket as the epitome of BBQ. Not because the eating is any better (though my wife might argue that) but because it is a bit more challenging than cooking pork well.
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Pork shoulders are a lot easier than brisket to get right.
Thanks for the tips on creosote. I had it in a chimney once after burning green wood one winter and was told that was the reason. More a function of lingering and contact with cold surfaces, eh?
Lots of good tips here in the last few pages. Thanks to everyone.
Thanks for the tips on creosote. I had it in a chimney once after burning green wood one winter and was told that was the reason. More a function of lingering and contact with cold surfaces, eh?
Lots of good tips here in the last few pages. Thanks to everyone.
TomInPA
Well-known member
The Boston Butts came off the smoker in time for dinner. They rendered out a bucket load of fat and "gravy" into the foil roasting pan I keep below on the heat deflector. Saves a lot of cleanup. Delicious. I didn't pull it until about 8 PM. As said above, if you want some thing easy to smoke that will feed an army cheap, get the boston butt or picnic ham. I kept one for lunches, and froze the other for a future picnic.
