Smoother riding

[tripletango]

For 2 hours the traffic was stop and go. Got much smoother starts and stops keeping bike in second gear. Clutch slipped just a little longer but not enough to worry about.

Anyone tried this?

(Clutch slip in third in this case is a little excessive!)

 

[Afast03nNJ]

The clutch slipping a little longer is going to ware it out faster.

If that doesn't concern you, then so be it. Are first gear starts/stops really that jerky on your bike?

 

[tripletango]

The clutch slipping a little longer is going to ware it out faster.If that doesn't concern you, then so be it. Are first gear starts/stops really that jerky on your bike?

Not worried about wear at these low engine speeds and light loadings. This is not an issue, the clutch is stronger this year 06 and I have heard of no previous clutch problems with the FJR.

Above 1300 rpm in first the clutch on an AE is engaged. Not sure what your speed will be at that rpm but it is below 10 mph.

The 06 throttle action is stiff and quite difficult to modulate requiring a tiny twist to go from trailing to on. As you cannot modulate the clutch you are at the mercy of your ability to do very small movements with the throttle. In addition the throttle response at those low rpm going from trailing to on is like a switch. Whether this is the actuation of the throttle or mapping is a moot point.

In second the clutch slips a little more while engaging giving more control at very low speeds.

If you open the throttle sharply with the bike stopped and then taking off in first, believe me you better be hanging on as it is like dropping the clutch on the manual bike.

The rear tire will light up and the front end will come off the asphalt.

This is all very fine for normal riding but difficult in miles of slow maneuvering.

Strange thing is that when the bike is cold the clutch engages very gradually at higher rpm which makes it easier to control. When normal temps are reached it is far more aggressive.

 

[Rickster]

tt -- i'd really like to get a copy of the code, it'd be interesting to see what all the inputs are and do. Haven't tried the 2nd slippage trick -- will do that soon. And you're right -- temperature affects first gear clutch engagement, and takes higher RPM to engage.

I changed the set-point to a lower RPM, and it caused problems with cold engine idle RPM -- the colder the bike -- the higher the RPM, and the higher the clutch engagement RPM, but when I changed the clutch engagement to a lower RPM, I got engagement at cold idle (so I returned it to factory setting).

 

[tripletango]

tt -- i'd really like to get a copy of the code, it'd be interesting to see what all the inputs are and do. Haven't tried the 2nd slippage trick -- will do that soon. And you're right -- temperature affects first gear clutch engagement, and takes higher RPM to engage.
I changed the set-point to a lower RPM, and it caused problems with cold engine idle RPM -- the colder the bike -- the higher the RPM, and the higher the clutch engagement RPM, but when I changed the clutch engagement to a lower RPM, I got engagement at cold idle (so I returned it to factory setting).

If you lowered the engage rpm can you not also raise it? I think that would help with low speed maneuvers.

tt -- i'd really like to get a copy of the code, it'd be interesting to see what all the inputs are and do. Haven't tried the 2nd slippage trick -- will do that soon. And you're right -- temperature affects first gear clutch engagement, and takes higher RPM to engage.

I changed the set-point to a lower RPM, and it caused problems with cold engine idle RPM -- the colder the bike -- the higher the RPM, and the higher the clutch engagement RPM, but when I changed the clutch engagement to a lower RPM, I got engagement at cold idle (so I returned it to factory setting).

If you lowered the engage rpm can you not also raise it? I think that would help with low speed maneuvers.

On second thoughts the clutch will probable slip too much on hard acceleration. Now that will wear it out in a hurry!

 

[manowell]

The 06 throttle action is stiff and quite difficult to modulate requiring a tiny twist to go from trailing to on. As you cannot modulate the clutch you are at the mercy of your ability to do very small movements with the throttle. In addition the throttle response at those low rpm going from trailing to on is like a switch. Whether this is the actuation of the throttle or mapping is a moot point.In second the clutch slips a little more while engaging giving more control at very low speeds.

If you open the throttle sharply with the bike stopped and then taking off in first, believe me you better be hanging on as it is like dropping the clutch on the manual bike.

The rear tire will light up and the front end will come off the asphalt.

This is all very fine for normal riding but difficult in miles of slow maneuvering.

Strange thing is that when the bike is cold the clutch engages very gradually at higher rpm which makes it easier to control. When normal temps are reached it is far more aggressive.

For what it's worth I agree with all of your observations. I have to claim ignorance on "The rear tire will light up and the front end will come off the asphalt" part due to my own respect (ok, fear) of the bike. This is the bigged, baddest, and ONLY brand new back that I've owned, so I'm trying HARD to learn slow. :blink:

I agree with many here that the bike is ridable as-is, but I'm looking for the correct list of fixes to smooth out the herky-jerky during first/second gear low speed traffic.

 

[tripletango]

I see you have Burgman 400. I have a 650 and like it!

 

[manowell]

I see you have Burgman 400. I have a 650 and like it!

Yeah, they make a sweet ride. The Burgman and BMW are both on the block to be sold to help defray the cost of the new FJR, unfortunately. I've got eight registered vehicles now, have to get it back down to six. Damn $$$$.

I never got to ride a 650. How's the pushbutton "shifting" on it?

Right now I'm thinking that the AE might be the best of both worlds.

 

[tripletango]

I see you have Burgman 400. I have a 650 and like it!

Yeah, they make a sweet ride. The Burgman and BMW are both on the block to be sold to help defray the cost of the new FJR, unfortunately. I've got eight registered vehicles now, have to get it back down to six. Damn $$$$.

I never got to ride a 650. How's the pushbutton "shifting" on it?

Right now I'm thinking that the AE might be the best of both worlds.

The paddle shifter is fun and works well. The two trannies big difference other than design is the clutch mechanisms.

On the AE it is a clutch that can hook in an instant. The CVT is always gradual and super smooth.

The AE does add a new dimension to riding and I enjoy the bike.

 

[Warchild]

As you cannot modulate the clutch you are at the mercy of your ability to do very small movements with the throttle. In addition the throttle response at those low rpm going from trailing to on is like a switch.

I think it is this aspect of AE operation gives me the most concern.

That is to say, my concern lies in the inability to feather the clutch for those situations where you want to have that option.

 

[SilverStreak]

As you cannot modulate the clutch you are at the mercy of your ability to do very small movements with the throttle. In addition the throttle response at those low rpm going from trailing to on is like a switch.

I think it is this aspect of AE operation gives me the most concern.

That is to say, my concern lies in the inability to feather the clutch for those situations where you want to have that option.

As I and other AE riders have stated before, modulating the throttle-auto clutch in slow speed maneuvers is not a problem while feathering the rear brake. By modulating the rear brake with light throttle and the transmission in 1st or 2nd, turning is smooth and well controlled. Using 2nd gear is preferred. Stop thinking about your conventional manual clutch/throttle relationship - those skills do not apply. It takes a different mindset and a learning curve to use the YCCS system. This will take approximately 1200 miles of riding practice to get it right. It's not going to be everyone's 1st choice - nor should it be - but the advantages of the system makes it the Future for new riding technology.

SilverStreak

 

[turbodave_98]

As you cannot modulate the clutch you are at the mercy of your ability to do very small movements with the throttle. In addition the throttle response at those low rpm going from trailing to on is like a switch.

I think it is this aspect of AE operation gives me the most concern.

That is to say, my concern lies in the inability to feather the clutch for those situations where you want to have that option.

As I and other AE riders have stated before, modulating the throttle-auto clutch in slow speed maneuvers is not a problem while feathering the rear brake. By modulating the rear brake with light throttle and the transmission in 1st or 2nd, turning is smooth and well controlled. Using 2nd gear is preferred. Stop thinking about your conventional manual clutch/throttle relationship - those skills do not apply. It takes a different mindset and a learning curve to use the YCCS system. This will take approximately 1200 miles of riding practice to get it right. It's not going to be everyone's 1st choice - nor should it be - but the advantages of the system makes it the Future for new riding technology.

SilverStreak

Is that a Corbin Smuggler on your bike? If so, how long to get it and $s, please

 

[Rickster]

As you cannot modulate the clutch you are at the mercy of your ability to do very small movements with the throttle. In addition the throttle response at those low rpm going from trailing to on is like a switch.

I think it is this aspect of AE operation gives me the most concern.

That is to say, my concern lies in the inability to feather the clutch for those situations where you want to have that option.

you have to use the rear brake and gear selection (like 2nd) to modulate/feather

-- it's just you have to get the inputs to the ECU right for it to feather for ya!

it works and does what you want -- you just gotta learn it.

Just like when you started riding the old ancient technology manual levered clutch -- you had to learn how to feather and when to. same thing. (note: I'm still learning how to make it do what I want, and sometimes reach for the lever!) it'll just take some time... just like learning ABS techniques -- gotta figure out exactly how it works.

 

[T120TT]

As you cannot modulate the clutch you are at the mercy of your ability to do very small movements with the throttle. In addition the throttle response at those low rpm going from trailing to on is like a switch.

I think it is this aspect of AE operation gives me the most concern.

That is to say, my concern lies in the inability to feather the clutch for those situations where you want to have that option.

As I and other AE riders have stated before, modulating the throttle-auto clutch in slow speed maneuvers is not a problem while feathering the rear brake. By modulating the rear brake with light throttle and the transmission in 1st or 2nd, turning is smooth and well controlled. Using 2nd gear is preferred. Stop thinking about your conventional manual clutch/throttle relationship - those skills do not apply. It takes a different mindset and a learning curve to use the YCCS system. This will take approximately 1200 miles of riding practice to get it right. It's not going to be everyone's 1st choice - nor should it be - but the advantages of the system makes it the Future for new riding technology.

SilverStreak

I agree about the learning curve. The first day I bought my AE, I rode it home from Cullman,AL, to Northern KY, 400+ miles. Much of it through pouring rain. I considered selling it right away but decided to give it a chance. After a learning curve, I decided to keep it and sell my '05. The more I get used to the electric clutch, the more I like it. Still adjusting but liking it more all the time. Using the paddle shift at speed and in the twisties is great.

 

[bike811]

I have a dirt bike (Honda CRF450), with an after market automatic clutch, and just wanted to say that the selection of a higher gear in some situations is the way to go with that as well. In tight technical sections (rocks, mud, tight trees) it works great to stay 1 gear higher than you would otherwise, and let the clutch work to your advantage. It is extremely smooth, and modulates better than the average rider is capable of, actually resulting in less wear than what is otherwise typical.

 

[tripletango]

Agree using rear brake with throttle works well for parking lot. In fact in traffic in slow going I seldom use the front brake. However using the rear brake at 10 mph and going from throttle off to on is not going to help one little bit. The transition is rough!