Soon to be FJR owner

[Frzp]

When the wife and I went shopping for bikes we made sure to have cash in hand before committing to shopping. And to avoid fuss we let the dealers know two things: Our time is valuable and we are not only shopping for bikes but a place to have the bikes serviced. They did not bend over backwards but they treated us nice, gave us a very fair deal, and both sides were happy. But, we also knew that if we were going to get the run around we would not buy the bike. An exit strategy is always needed.

But all in all, you should enjoy the FJR, it is a very nice bike and will last you quite a while.

 

[garyahouse]

This forum is amazing. Every time I read this stuff, it's SO educational. This entire thread ought to be mandatory reading for anybody considering buying from a dealer. I mean after all, we all know they're trying to...

Gary

darksider #44

 

[Aasland]

This sort of stuff makes me appreciate my local dealer. I went in looking for a used FJR, they only had new ones. But they gave me the number of a guy nearby trying to sell his one-year-old FJR, which I bought.

I often ask myself "why do dealers exhibit such jerk-*** behavior?" ... the answer is always "because with most buyers, it actually works!!"

 

[NMRoadRunner]

I don't know, you sound pretty high maintenance to me, I'd let you walk. They want to finance the bike and make the $$$ in the deal. Screw them. Keep looking you'll find the perfect FJR deal soon enough, Buy from a private seller, besides Black sucks!

 

[BigPaz]

..... besides Black sucks!

now, ya shouldn'ta gone and said that.... :angry2:

 

[The Flying Potato]

I spoke with the sales guy this morning. Apologized for the heated exchange and told him the deal I was ready to do as of 9:00 am tomorrow, which was $8,500 for the FJR and $3,000 on the trade. Maybe that's completely unrealistic but that's what I'm willing to do right now. He said he would run it by the owner, but they probably can't do that deal. He never called back. As much as it is killing me, I'm not calling again, ball is in their court. In the meantime, I have my bike posted on svrider (actually had already done that over the weekend) and will keep looking to see what's out there.

Thanks for all the advice and I will keep you posted.

 

[RossKean]

Its always nice to get the best deal you can but what's a few hundred bucks if its the bike you want and when/where you want it.

I probably ride 25,000 miles in a year...

I do essentially all my own maintenance (double or triple the maintenance parts of the equation if the dealer does it). Remember to include extra for dealer valve checks, chasis lube, throttle body synch etc.

Call it $2500 in gas

2.5 sets of tires @ $300=$750 (Change them myself)

5+ oil changes @ $40.00=$200

Hydraulic fluid, final drive lube, coolant change... $100 ish

Maint on front forks, brake pads, rear shock rebuild and other semi-routine maint. maybe $300 average per year

Bulbs, batteries, spark plugs, air filters, wear items etc - $150

Farkeling - the sky's the limit!! Won't put any numbers here.

Lets not include insurance, license, depreciation etc.

In very round numbers, this is around $4000/year. Lets say I keep my bike for four years and 100,000 miles (I like round numbers)

I just spent $16,000 beyond the purchase price of the bike and I haven't even dropped it or had any serious mechanical issues. Add another $1000/year if you rely upon the dealer for very much. Add the ~$8500 purchase price.

Now, what were we discussing about how much money you might save by walking from this? If you got $400 off by dickering, you have just saved ~1.5% (at most) on the total cost of ownership after 4 years.

Just another perspective, for what it's worth!

Ross

 

[Steel_Gin]

I spoke with the sales guy this morning. Apologized for the heated exchange and told him the deal I was ready to do as of 9:00 am tomorrow, which was $8,500 for the FJR and $3,000 on the trade. Maybe that's completely unrealistic but that's what I'm willing to do right now. He said he would run it by the owner, but they probably can't do that deal. He never called back. As much as it is killing me, I'm not calling again, ball is in their court. In the meantime, I have my bike posted on svrider (actually had already done that over the weekend) and will keep looking to see what's out there.

Thanks for all the advice and I will keep you posted.

I hope you are looking for other FJRs in your area. If they do call back here's to being able to say, Sorry I found a better bike at a better price and I won't be going to your dealership for any service.

Good Luck!!

 

[The Flying Potato]

Well, I wouldn't be going to their shop for service anyway, it's 50 miles away and there are a bunch of Yamaha dealers (and independents) in the Denver/Boulder area. But there is a 2005 with 8,300 miles at the Denver BMW dealer listed for $6,495.

Ross, logically I understand that you are right, and I always thought it way a pretty good deal even at $8,999. But they really irritated me on Saturday and at the very least they are going to have to blink first and call me back. Probably cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I'm trying to have a little patience/discipline here.

We'll see what happens. They do know that starting tomorrow I have cash and am ready to buy the bike. I'm willing to give a few hundred, let them do the service, leave some of the goodies on the SV, or even let them put me in some rediculous 25% loan (as long as I can pay it off with no pre-payment). But they will call me back first dammit!

 

[BentAero]

But there is a 2005 with 8,300 miles at the Denver BMW dealer listed for $6,495.

Mmmmm.... That's a Gen I, replace the 6 with a 4 and it might be worth looking at, as in $4,495.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Well, I wouldn't be going to their shop for service anyway...

So then why do you expect them to kiss your *** and meet all your ******** demands? If I woulda been the salesman, and I used to be, when you pulled the, "Let me take the bike on an extended test ride, or I'm leaving" stunt I would have told you to be careful and not let the door hit you in the ***. The fact that you think they need to tolerate your childish BS for a couple hundred dollars profit on a used bike is laughable.

They actually did EVERYTHING you wanted them to do. They met your price, they gave you fair money for your trade, they let you take the bike out longer than normal...Not so you could ride it, but so you could try to drop it off at some random mechanic, and they tried to make a sale. I don't know how smart you think you are, but you could have easily financed the loan that day and paid it off three days later for less than $100 extra dollars out of your pocket. That would have boosted your credit score too.

I hope they don't call you back...AND if they don't, I'll tell you why: They think you're a tool trying to take advantage of them and they don't want your business. I can understand why.

 

[The Flying Potato]

Wow HotRod, you're a real tough guy, huh? Why is it that everyone else can come on and make civil comments, even if they are pointedly criticizing the way I have gone about this, but you have to make such a hostile and rude post. I really don't see how wanting to take an extended test ride on a used bike is anything out of the ordinary. As for the rest of it, maybe I have a different negotiating style than you, but this is a business transaction, I'm not looking to make friends. The fact is that you don't know me and I don't know you and people that speak such harsh words from behind their computer are a bit of a joke. Good luck with your hostility *******.

Thanks to everyone else who has had helpful comments.

 

[TheZsdad]

Wow HotRod, you're a real tough guy, huh? Why is it that everyone else can come on and make civil comments, even if they are pointedly criticizing the way I have gone about this, but you have to make such a hostile and rude post. I really don't see how wanting to take an extended test ride on a used bike is anything out of the ordinary. As for the rest of it, maybe I have a different negotiating style than you, but this is a business transaction, I'm not looking to make friends. The fact is that you don't know me and I don't know you and people that speak such harsh words from behind their computer are a bit of a joke. Good luck with your hostility *******.

Thanks to everyone else who has had helpful comments.

TFP, If you stick around long enough you will realize some folks don't pull there punches. I know you want to do it your way but you posted all the details

and Zilla is giving you some honest feedback sorry if it burns a little. You are coming across as being a little inexperienced. Lots of old farts and almost old farts

on this forum. Lots of good advice has been posted above. Remember the K.I.S.S. principal. Don't let your pride stand in the way of getting what you want.

Good Luck

 

[HotRodZilla]

When I get there there is a really beat up 2005 (that wasn't there on Friday) right in front. All scratched up, threads showing through the back tire, etc. I'm starting to get pissed...

Pissed about what? Did you bother to ask if the bike you had called about was at the dealership? From your post, you didn't, because the bike you wanted to see was in fact there. So...You got "pissed" about nothing.

He says oh no, you can only take it out for five minutes around the dealership. Well then, you can forget it...Comes back, owner says no, can't do that for insurance reasons (after he's asked for my insurance info). Now I'm starting to get up and walk out...I have to be back in about an hour fifteen. I feel like saying "and what's gonna happen if I'm not"

If you were selling your SV and some guy came to your house and wanted to take your bike out for an hour-15 would you let him? If you did let him, and he didn't come back by an hour-15 and 30 seconds, what would you think? Why do you think dealers are any different. They don't know if you can ride. They don't know if you are handing them a stolen bike to steal anohter one. They know NOTHING about you, yet you want them to trust you with $9k of their inventory? Sure...Their insurance may cover it if you crash it or steal it, but if someone crashed or stole your SV, how much will it cost you to replace it?

Stop by a local independent shop to see if they can take a quick look, but unfortunately the sign says they'll be back in 90 minutes.

Why would you stop there? Were you going to pay them the $45/hour to look at the bike, or were you expecting them to do you a favor too? If they did charge you, were you going to throw a hissy fit and be pissed about that too? Do you even know if the guys there are competent? I have $10 they couldn't even get the plastic off the FJR without a service manual.

Head back and sit back down with the sales guy. Now I'm starting to get annoyed.

So...Now you're annoyed again because you're not getting your way?

Sales guy is walking out with a temporary tag in his hand and the F&I guy has all the sales papaerwork printed out on his desk. Now I lose my temper, I told you four or five times that I wasn't buying the bike but would give you a deposit and come back on Wed.

Don't let this surprise you...That's what dealerships do. They SELL bikes. No one likes to hold a bike for someone with a deposit, becasue if the customer comes back and demands thier deposit back, the dealership has to refund it. Lots of people have pulled this scam having one dealership hold a bike/car with a deposit while they go test drive another one and try to make a second deal. People with crappy credit are notorious for leaving deposits and then going searching for financing they will never get. Meanwhile, the car/bike is sitting, unable to be shown becasue it's "sold."

 

A private seller will do it. Not many dealerships want to deal with holding someone's money. They want to sell you the bike so you take ownership and believe it is yours.

...but I need to sign the papers to hold the bike. I ask him if he thinks I'm an *****, once I sign the papers I have bought the bike and I have said repeatedly that I'm not doing that. Somewhat heated conversation with the F&I guy goes down, what would happen that you wouldn't want to buy the bike, how do we know your serious, a discussion about if deposits are refundable, this is our policy, etc.

So I walk, stopping to tell the sales guy to let me know if they change their mind about holding the bike for a few days with a deposit.

YES...You need to sign papers so they can sell you the bike. Really??

I don't think he's actually a bad guy, but I'm officially pissed off now and even drop the first f-bomb of the day(actually somewhat surprising for me that it's the first one). Calls ends relatively well with him saying I can tell you are frustrated, why don't we talk next week?

If you woulda dropped that f-bomb on my or one of my guys, you would have been hung up on and we would have never done business with you again. The fact that the salesman held it togethe and actually offered to call you next week says alot about his character.

Now that I'm all calmed down and thinking rationally again, I realize that I really do want to buy this bike. My plan is to call them tomorrow and say we can do $8,500 but I want you to throw in an engine oil, gear oil and coolant change (they do not have records for the 6,000 mile service). Also, I do want to trade my SV and I want them to pull the Penske off it for me and mount some new tires on the FJR as part of the deal (the tires aren't terrible but they are the originals and it lloks like Motorcycle Superstor has a pretty good sale and I can get a set of Pilot Road IIIs for ~ $300 delivered, so why not?).

So...NOW, here is the problem with leaving your deposit. Because now, you want them to make the same deal you were willing to sign off on, but you want them to sweeten the deal for you. Dealer service department oil changes are around $200. The gear oil will be another $50. The coolant change is probably around $300 due to the labor involved. You now want to trade in the bike you got mad at the salesman about AND you want them do at least another $50 worth of work for you to benefit YOU...AND you want them to mount $500 of new tires for you at around $40 per tire to mount...so you want $1140 worth of stuff added to your deal, but you won't pay any more, and you'll never go back to them for service?

 

Tell me how this is a win for THEM?

So, does this seem like a reasonable deal?

Nope

Sorry I hurt your feelings. I'll tell you how it is every time, and I won't sugar coat it or use soft little words. I'll tell you over the computer, or to your face. Either is fine with me. Just so happens you are in Denver and I'm not. BooHoo...Did you honestly think you would post up and everyone would say, "Oh...Poor you. You were so abused by those mean sales people trying to make a profit?"

Go back and read your post. You sound like a bully who thinks that people are supposed to care if you get annoyed, pissed, mad, ready to leave, or drop an f-bomb. Get over yourself and your emotions, and take someone with you that knows how to buy a vehicle. You'll end up happier.

 

[wheatonFJR]

I'm with Zilla here. You posted up the details of a transaction/almost transaction and asked for opinions. Some you like and some you don't like. Zilla was being brutally honest and actually spent the time to give you some good advice. He was no more rude than you appeared to be in your description of your actions. Your loss if you don't take the advice he gave.

Edit: I hope you get an FJR and get your butt to a local or regional ride. You'll find out that most of us aren't as asinine as we appear on the neenernets. Then again...some of us are exactly like we appear on the web.

 

[The Flying Potato]

Sales guy did call back. Deal is done. Deposit is made and I will finalize things and pick the bike up on Saturday.

As for the rest of it, this forum seems to be like most others. A lot of people who are willing to give advice. Most are civil, some are obnoxious, as they probably are in person. I try to stay away from internet arguing wherever possible.

 

[exskibum]

Yep, 'Zilla. I'm having trouble disagreeing with anything you've posted in the thread. Except . . . you wasted more time than I would have educating the OP. I think I'd have left it at "life ain't fair, you don't always get your way, try to find a way to live with it." Not sure why he'd need ratification here about whether his "negotiating style" is reasonable. I hope the OP doesn't take this personally with me, like he seemed to with you, but hey -- you and I are both in the business of dealing with difficult people on a regular basis, so it'll probably not significantly affect my day either.

And to the OP: if you like the FJR, I hope you find a way to get one you like.

 

[The Flying Potato]

It's not that I can't take constructive criticism. All of the comments people made did cause me to reconsider my stance. For instance, Zilla's comment on the amount of labor to change the coolant was helpful. I just think the point could have been made equally effectively without all the name calling. Some might consider that "not pulling any punches." I think it goes a little beyond that and really isn't necessary to make your point. I did get a little heated with the guys at the dealership, but apparently I wasn't bad enough that they weren't willing to work with me. But that was something that involved me personally and a reasonably large chunk of money, not putting some random person on the internet in their place.

As for being inexperienced. I'm 42 years-old and have bought and sold plenty of vehicles, this particular transaction just didn't go very smoothly. In my professional life I am a commercial lender and negotiate multi-million dollar credit facilities every day, so I have probably done more and bigger transactions than a lot of people.

Anyhow the deal is done, hopefully we can just agree to disagree.

 

[Matt101]

Well Done FP! Glad you got the deal done and soon be enjoying FJR ownership.

 

[dcarver]

Now just ride. Just don't speed while in the Zilla hood!