Spieglers Make A Difference?

[BrunDog]

Chaps,

I missed the GB on the Spieglers (of course, bc you guys stopped doing them when I got my bike), but I am interested in a set. I have some questions, though:

1. What are the improvements? I have an ABS bike, is there a noticeable improvement in feel? I can't say this bike has the best brakes in the world, is it perhaps due to all of the flexible lines I have on mine?

2. Is there a safety improvement? I realize the stock lines are supposed to be replaced in the future, but how often do these things blow out in real life?

3. Is Gary still the guy to get them from?

4. Where do I get a flare wrench for the fittings?

5. What exactly are the P/Ns including the clutch lines?

TIA!

-BD

 

[BrunDog]

Gee guys, don't break a finger with all those replies!

-BD

 

[Geezer]

I don't know.

I don't have a problem with the brakes as they came from the factory. The maintenance schedule does call for replacing the brake lines after, I think, 3 years. Seems like that would be the time to replace them with stainless lines. I'm thinking that the stainless ones should last for the life of the bike.

 

[Warchild]

What are the improvements?

When correctly installed and properly bled until the lines are completely free of air, the Spiegler lines make a huge improvement in braking performance. Of all the mods and farkles I've done to this machine, the Spiegler SS lines and ABM rotors are arguably had the greatest positive impact on performance and safety.

That having been said, I have inspected a FJR-ABS with the Spiegler lines installed and bled correctly - its an incredible feel, it's like the brake lever hits a solid wall when you squeeze it. Then again, I've checked out another ABS machine where the owner didn't do too swift a job bleeding his lines, and he complained that the improvement in feel wasn't what he anticipated (oh, but you couldn't tell him anything about his bleeding technique, oh no... )

2. Is there a safety improvement?

See above...

4. Where do I get a flare wrench for the fittings?

Sears. NAPA. Schucks. AutoZone. Etc

5. What exactly are the P/Ns including the clutch lines?

You got me.... it's ordered by bike model/brand (like, a 2005 FJR1300ABS in your case)

 

[GunMD]

I can't speak to the ABS version, but my 05 Non ABS was improved dramatically when I installed the stainless lines from the group buy. Best money I've spent yet.

 

[yamaholic]

I agree 100% with Warchild on all accounts. Regardless of which brand you go with, wave rotors and SS lines make a dramatic difference in braking IF and ONLY IF they are installed and bled properly. If you do not completely bleed them, you'll not notice a big difference (which should be the first clue that better bleeding is required).

If you've never worked on brakes on before, I suggest you read up on proper techniques and equipment and have a good understanding what you are doing prior to taking on the task.

(oh, but you couldn't tell him anything about his bleeding technique, oh no... )

:haha: I'm sure you tried...too bad folks won't take advice when they really should be listening! Unfortunately, these are the people that claim lackluster performance on certain mods, solely because they knew not what they were doing!

 

[smthng]

1. What are the improvements? I have an ABS bike, is there a noticeable improvement in feel? I can't say this bike has the best brakes in the world, is it perhaps due to all of the flexible lines I have on mine?

Note: I haven't installed mine yet on the feejer (waiting for snow). But, I have done several others and every one of them was a huge improvement, even though the length of lines replaced were significantly smaller than the feejers. I too have an '05 ABS and hated the brake feel since Day One. The miles of lines has to be a factor. Don't get me wrong, the brakes work and they'll haul her down from ludicrous speeds quite nicely. They just don't feel like they will.

2. Is there a safety improvement? I realize the stock lines are supposed to be replaced in the future, but how often do these things blow out in real life?

Yes and no... I suspect that some riders will actually have a harder time dealing with the SS lines when they first install them. They get used to "ham-fisting" the brakes, because it really doesn't require a whole lot of finesse in the stock condition. Once the SS lines are in place, the brakes should much touchier and will require a bit more skill than the rider may be used to.

As for physical failure of stock lines... Probably not that much of an issue. Yamama specs to replace them every two years I think. I've seen (and ridden) several 10 year old bike with stock lines that worked just fine. I've never seen a line "explode". Most will just start to weep at the joints, which gives you some warning... the brakes will get progressively "mushier" before failing (and this process generally takes a while). Don't plan on replacing them because you want to avoid a failure... replace them because you want them to work and feel better (but you can sell it to your significant other using the "imminent failure" technique if needed).

3. Is Gary still the guy to get them from?

As far as I know, Gary's always the guy to get everything from.

Items 4 and 5 answered by others, probably better than the crap I could make up.

Gee guys, don't break a finger with all those replies!

Dude, you only waited an hour... my coffee wasn't even awake yet. :dribble:

 

[JimV]

WC et al,

Ok, I just love to take advice. As soon as I get home from Germany later this week, I'm planning on doing my rotors and lines.

I've bled brakes before but nothing as complicated as the ABS on my Feej. What are a couple of things that I should be careful of? Is there some dumb thing that most newbies do? The Valvoline Syn DOT4 is cheap so I don' mind going through a bunch.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[BrunDog]

Dude, you only waited an hour... my coffee wasn't even awake yet. :dribble: !

Dude, an hour and a day, actually! Nonetheless how can any human farkler wait that long? I've got parts to buy!

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm in.

-BD

 

[smthng]

FEMA got caught with it's pants down and Brown is the head of FEMA...the buck stops with him and him alone...You want the big jobs and the responsibility that goes with them you take the big falls when it all turns to shit IMHO...

Er... WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING in this thread? Is FEMA replacing spiegler lines for those lost in the hurricane? :agent:

 

[Warchild]

FEMA got caught with it's pants down and Brown is the head of FEMA...the buck stops with him and him alone...You want the big jobs and the responsibility that goes with them you take the big falls when it all turns to shit IMHO...

Er... WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING in this thread? Is FEMA replacing spiegler lines for those lost in the hurricane? :agent:

I deleted the post, as I'm sure Thug meant to post that message to the current FEMA thread over in the "Off-Topics" forum...

 

[sparky3008]

WC et al,
Ok, I just love to take advice. As soon as I get home from Germany later this week, I'm planning on doing my rotors and lines.

I've bled brakes before but nothing as complicated as the ABS on my Feej. What are a couple of things that I should be careful of? Is there some dumb thing that most newbies do? The Valvoline Syn DOT4 is cheap so I don' mind going through a bunch.

Cheers,

Jim

Hey Warchild I looked on your fjrtech.com site and didn't notice and SS brake line install procedures, specifically looking for bleeding advice. I have had mine installed for a few weeks now and while I love the look I too didn't notice a great diff in the handlebar area. I have only bleed brakes twice in my life so I by no means think I know it all. I have the MityVac but it seems difficult to tell if their is air or not.

My procedure was this: Remove lid on resevoir, connect MityVac, pump it a few times to build a vac, crack the valve to let some fluid through and befor the vac reach 0 I closed the valve again. Check fluid level and repeat. I moved from side to side a few times but still not confident that all the air is out.

Any advice well received,

Thanks,

Gene

 

[Ignacio]

Dale didn't do the article because he's non-ABS and that procedure is way easier. Rick Conn did and is documented on the other excellent website FJRinfo.com.

I'm in the process myself and tried my first bleed a couple nights ago and think I'm running into the same issue as you. The front brake is slowly firming up, but I'm going through a ton of brake fluid to get there.

I think there are a ton of nooks and crannies on that ABS system that it's hard to get the air out of.

A couple suggestions from Warchild I'm going to try tonight.

1) If your mighty vac seems to be pulling a lot of air when you crack the bleeder--put some viscous grease around the edges to increase the vacuum.

2) Tap the ABS metering block with a screwdriver or rubber mallet while bleeding. Maybe air bubbles linger there.

3) Tap the various lines that go at horizontal angles and might hold air.

4) Pretend you're an air bubble. Where would you hide? Tap that area.

 

[sparky3008]

Dale didn't do the article because he's non-ABS and that procedure is way easier. Rick Conn did and is documented on the other excellent website FJRinfo.com.
I'm in the process myself and tried my first bleed a couple nights ago and think I'm running into the same issue as you. The front brake is slowly firming up, but I'm going through a ton of brake fluid to get there.

I think there are a ton of nooks and crannies on that ABS system that it's hard to get the air out of.

A couple suggestions from Warchild I'm going to try tonight.

1) If your mighty vac seems to be pulling a lot of air when you crack the bleeder--put some viscous grease around the edges to increase the vacuum.

2) Tap the ABS metering block with a screwdriver or rubber mallet while bleeding. Maybe air bubbles linger there.

3) Tap the various lines that go at horizontal angles and might hold air.

4) Pretend you're an air bubble. Where would you hide? Tap that area.

Maybe this makes me even more pathetic but mine is non-ABS

 

[Warchild]

Maybe this makes me even more pathetic but mine is non-ABS

ACK! Well, your technique is suspect, then, because I assure you that the non-ABS system can be bled such that the front lever can be pull back perhaps 3/4"-1" before it hits the proverbial brick wall.

The ABS model can also be done the same way, but takes a good bit more effort to get there.