Synthetic versus Standard Motor Oil for FJR

[DrQ]

Picking up my 06AE next week. My dealer seems to think the clutch may have more problems with synthetic oil than with standard oil. I've used synthetic on all machines for almost 20 years now and never a problem.

 

[Scab]

Oil is a hard word to search since it has only 3 letters, but there are litterally tons of oil threads found in the never-ending-pointless section. Short answer: Horse Shit. Use whatever oil you like. Stay away from "energy conserving" with the little star on the label. A popular synthetic of users here is Shell Rotella T. FWIW.

and prepare to be moved...

 

[Ignacio]

synthetic oil than with standard oil. I've used synthetic on all machines for almost 20 years now and never a problem.

Synthetic oil that's not for motorcycles...yeah. No friction modifiers.

I HIGHLY suggest searching on posts by Jestal. He's the resident expert.....or one of the very few I'd listen to on this subject.

Moving thread to it's new home.....and Jestal.....man, we really need to talk about compiling an oil FAQ!

 

[DrQ]

synthetic oil than with standard oil. I've used synthetic on all machines for almost 20 years now and never a problem.

Synthetic oil that's not for motorcycles...yeah. No friction modifiers.

I HIGHLY suggest searching on posts by Jestal. He's the resident expert.....or one of the very few I'd listen to on this subject.

Moving thread to it's new home.....and Jestal.....man, we really need to talk about compiling an oil FAQ!

Thanks, I'll look for his threads & search before posting in the future....

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Picking up my 06AE next week. My dealer seems to think the clutch may have more problems with synthetic oil than with standard oil. I've used synthetic on all machines for almost 20 years now and never a problem.

Let's see, this seems like it's not so much about oil as it is about whether you think your dealer knows what he's talking about (or, not as much as you)? If the former (knowlegeable dealer), then why not follow his instructions? If the latter (un-knowledgeable), maybe you can educate him? Maybe he can back-up his comments with some data? 'Course, you've got a lot of 'data' -- too (20 yrs).

MamaYama does list some specifics about what oil to use in your M.O.M.

Let us know how it shakes out, 'kay?

 

[Toecutter]

Picking up my 06AE next week. My dealer seems to think the clutch may have more problems with synthetic oil than with standard oil. I've used synthetic on all machines for almost 20 years now and never a problem.

Dealer as in sales or was it the service manager who said that? A lot of people here swear by synthetic and not a single clutch problem that I can recall. Just make sure you waste your mo.., er, I mean use the stuff made for diesels and not energy conserving. How many miles will you be able to go between oil changes now?
Here's some good reading material

 

[HaulinAshe]

Picking up my 06AE next week. My dealer seems to think the clutch may have more problems with synthetic oil than with standard oil. I've used synthetic on all machines for almost 20 years now and never a problem.

I just HAD to jump into this one before shutting my tired eyes tonight.



Sniff the dealer and you will smell ignorance. Just like Scab said, stay away from energy conserving oils, synthetic or otherwise, and you will be fine. Rotella-T Synthetic is available at Wally World in gallons.

BTW - My 2003 YZ250F has yet to need a clutch change. Three years of racing motocross and now on it's third owner, yet the original clutch. Always synthetic. The FJR is an oil pussycat compared to a 4-stroke MX bike.

 

[evil_henchman]

Make it stop... :wacko:

 

[jestal]

The dealer/service manager may have had bad luck in the past using a synthetic product intended for passenger car engines that had friction modifiers in it. It wasn't the synthetic it was the friction modifiers or "energy conserving" or "improved fuel economy" oils whether synthetic or not.

In short, read the oil bottle. ANY product, synthetic or otherwise, that has the ILSAC "starburst" symbol on it that says "for gasoline engines" is to be avoided especially if you see the words "energy conserving" or "improved fuel economy"........

 

[sprint_st]

Picking up my 06AE next week. My dealer seems to think the clutch may have more problems with synthetic oil than with standard oil. I've used synthetic on all machines for almost 20 years now and never a problem.

After you read all those oil threads, listen to all the experts, and conclude you probably know less than before you started, there is a growing trend to dump the oil that came with the bike and change the filter early on. Depending on which expert, something like 30 miles to 100 miles. I just did mine at 300 because I was having too much fun riding I didn't feel like changing the oil. Another trend you may see is that folks hold off changing to synthetic till maybe 1500-2000 miles. Like the other guys said, stay away from energy conserving oil. It may not have the ILSAC starburst but it still may say energy conserving in the API donut. If so, avoid it. No starburst and no "energy conserving" in the donut, you're pretty safe synthetic or non-synthetic.

A short anecdote: when trying to get some info on Pennzoil 10W40 last week, the engineer who I talked to at the Pennzoil Information Center said the insurance and marketing guys limited what he was supposed to say to consumers. One thing that did slip out was the 10W40 automotive I bought was exactly the same as the 10W40 motorcycle oil they sell except for the price and the label.

 

[warsw]

A short anecdote: when trying to get some info on Pennzoil 10W40 last week, the engineer who I talked to at the Pennzoil Information Center said the insurance and marketing guys limited what he was supposed to say to consumers. One thing that did slip out was the 10W40 automotive I bought was exactly the same as the 10W40 motorcycle oil they sell except for the price and the label.

I suspect that this is probably true in a lot of motorcycle oils. If the auto oil passes the requirements for motorcycle oil it is just a rebrand with a higher price tag. Just my thoughts, no proof.

 

[odot]

This is like a bar on main street that gets all the police calls.....

 

[DrQ]

It was the sales manager, and though my knowledge of synthetic is not from mechanics or engineering, I seemed to know a bit more than this guy... My thought is that because the synthetic is engineered, the molecules are all identical. Less likely to break down, therefore less likely to slip through gaskets & cause havoc on other engine parts. The synthetic will probably run smoother in the engine, but probably only recognized with engines worked harder. Sound logic or not?

 

[BentAero]

When I picked up my '07 last week at D&H, Jerald, and the mechanic Nick, strongly urged me to use Kawasaki's K4 petroleum based motor oil, not a synthetic. When I asked why, I was told the Kawi oil has 6 times the "shear" additive as most any other oil.

Yes, they do sell the Kawi oil, but they also sell a few others as well.

I'm undecided...

 

[jestal]

It was the sales manager, and though my knowledge of synthetic is not from mechanics or engineering, I seemed to know a bit more than this guy... My thought is that because the synthetic is engineered, the molecules are all identical. Less likely to break down, therefore less likely to slip through gaskets & cause havoc on other engine parts. The synthetic will probably run smoother in the engine, but probably only recognized with engines worked harder. Sound logic or not?

Not really.....

Since a synthetic oil will change viscosity a little less than a conventional oil when it gets hot the synthetic base stock used for any given oil will be a slightly lower viscosity to begin with. In other words, a 10W30 synthetic will be a slightly lower viscosity when cold and at cooler running temperatures than a conventional 10W30 oil. In a nutshell, this means that the synthetic will tend to exacerbate oil leaks because the lower viscosity of the base stock will "leak" more easily. This has been observed to be a fact many times in the real world. If an engine has an oil leak it will be worse with synthetic.

As for "running smoother"...??....no difference.

The only real advantage of the synthetic products is their ability to live for extended periods of time at temperatures above 305 degrees F. Since VERY FEW engines ever get the oil that hot the use of synthetics is more of a feel good situation than a real requirement.

When I picked up my '07 last week at D&H, Jerald, and the mechanic Nick, strongly urged me to use Kawasaki's K4 petroleum based motor oil, not a synthetic. When I asked why, I was told the Kawi oil has 6 times the "shear" additive as most any other oil.
Yes, they do sell the Kawi oil, but they also sell a few others as well.

I'm undecided...

Wonder what "shear addtive" is....??? Never heard of that one.

Maybe they were thinking of the anti-wear additive ZDP. More of that is what you want in any oil in a bike engine. While the K4 oil might have more ZDP you can also get more ZDP in conventional oils by using the much less expensive and very high quality Delo or Delvac or Rotella products. Those oils have very high levels of ZDP and I would be very surprised if any Kaw oil had more.

 

[warsw]

The only real advantage of the synthetic products is their ability to live for extended periods of time at temperatures above 305 degrees F. Since VERY FEW engines ever get the oil that hot the use of synthetics is more of a feel good situation than a real requirement.

You also get..............Oh never mind!!!

 

[DrQ]

It was the sales manager, and though my knowledge of synthetic is not from mechanics or engineering, I seemed to know a bit more than this guy... My thought is that because the synthetic is engineered, the molecules are all identical. Less likely to break down, therefore less likely to slip through gaskets & cause havoc on other engine parts. The synthetic will probably run smoother in the engine, but probably only recognized with engines worked harder. Sound logic or not?

Not really.....

Since a synthetic oil will change viscosity a little less than a conventional oil when it gets hot the synthetic base stock used for any given oil will be a slightly lower viscosity to begin with. In other words, a 10W30 synthetic will be a slightly lower viscosity when cold and at cooler running temperatures than a conventional 10W30 oil. In a nutshell, this means that the synthetic will tend to exacerbate oil leaks because the lower viscosity of the base stock will "leak" more easily. This has been observed to be a fact many times in the real world. If an engine has an oil leak it will be worse with synthetic.

As for "running smoother"...??....no difference.

The only real advantage of the synthetic products is their ability to live for extended periods of time at temperatures above 305 degrees F. Since VERY FEW engines ever get the oil that hot the use of synthetics is more of a feel good situation than a real requirement.

When I picked up my '07 last week at D&H, Jerald, and the mechanic Nick, strongly urged me to use Kawasaki's K4 petroleum based motor oil, not a synthetic. When I asked why, I was told the Kawi oil has 6 times the "shear" additive as most any other oil.
Yes, they do sell the Kawi oil, but they also sell a few others as well.

I'm undecided...

Wonder what "shear addtive" is....??? Never heard of that one.

Maybe they were thinking of the anti-wear additive ZDP. More of that is what you want in any oil in a bike engine. While the K4 oil might have more ZDP you can also get more ZDP in conventional oils by using the much less expensive and very high quality Delo or Delvac or Rotella products. Those oils have very high levels of ZDP and I would be very surprised if any Kaw oil had more.

Jestal, are you suggesting that a more viscous synthetic might run better than a recommended standard oil?

 

[jestal]

Jestal, are you suggesting that a more viscous synthetic might run better than a recommended standard oil?

No, not at all. Just mentioning my experience with oil leaks and some misconceptions about synthetics.

Due to the viscousity improvers in the oil the oils will still be the same relative viscosity when the oil is hot so the idea of the thinner viscosity of the base stock exacerbating oil leaks applies only when cold...when the engine is sitting with the oil in the sump with much more residence time to seep thru leaks.

 

[norflyer]

Picking up my 06AE next week. My dealer seems to think the clutch may have more problems with synthetic oil than with standard oil. I've used synthetic on all machines for almost 20 years now and never a problem.

As the blond said; what is the cap I lost on my BMW marked 710 ???? :yahoo: