Terrible Headshake and the solution

[Ed_Grant]

Got to agree with Flyguy on this. My ST1100 would shake like crazy slowing down through 45 mph if I took my hands off the bars when the front tire was toast. The Bridgstone OEM tires were better then others I tried though. I haven't experienced any headshake on the FJR although I got into a high speed weave at about 130 mph one time when I was fully loaded. I think that was an aerodynamic thing though due to a large bag on the Tanji fuel cell.

 

[Brody]

Well I thought that this was factory lawyer BS when I read in the mounting instruction manual for the side cases these warnings but maybe not.

paraphrased quotes from page 2:

"-max load 10kg per case" (sounds about right)

"-with cases on limit speed to 130 km/h" (approx 81mph) (question)

"-do no sit on cases" (agree)

"-cases increase width" (agree), "limits banking angle" (question) "and fit between obstacles" (agree)

"-check owner's manual for loading instructions" (whatever)

"-with side cases installed, do not use top case" (big question)

"-additional suspension adjustments will be needed with side cases." (maybe, depends on what's in them I would think)

How many use topcase with side cases??

 

[CigarGuy]

I was actually warned about this by the sales guy when I bought my baby. He also rides an FJR and warned me to keep a close eye on tire pressure as cupping was almost sure to develop even when tire pressure is diligently monitored.

Looks like this is true based on all of your experiences. Tire pressure seems to be related as well. Another reason to keep an eye on that pressure I guess.

 

[squidbilly]

So the dealer finally decided to warranty the tire. It took a little convincing but overall I was happpy that the ate the labor and gave me a new BT 021. I'll replace the rear 020 in about 1,000 miles. I couldn't believe how much better the ride is now...

Bob in service at Temecula Motorsports was a great help to me so cudos to him. F#@k the rest of the staff there though. I'm taking my business to North County Yamaha from now on.

 

[Knifemaker]

How many use topcase with side cases??

I have the Yamaha topcase , had it the first day I got the bike. Have had no problems what-so-ever with it. Loaded both sidecases with aprox 17 lbs of crap each, about twice that in the top case and my wife on back 1200 miles trip speeds now and then in the 3 digits...again no problem.

The only issue I have seen is sometimes riding solo some folks have noticed a little instability with all three bags on. This seems to be an issue of aerodynamics, not load. Cranking the windscreen up, or placing a bag on the passenger seat seems to solve this.

KM

 

[Rondo777]

I've got the same headshake on my 08 and it is magnified by the topcase. While I can certainly live with it, this is the first bike I have owned to exhibit headshake to this degree. I guess you get some bad with the good, and the pros far outweigh the minor cons. I'll up the air in the front today and see what effect that has.

My 06 had the head shake with 0 miles on it, brand new tires. Really didnt notice a diff with topcase on or off. This was the first bike i've owned in 30 years to have a head shake. I was deff able to live with it. I just replaced both tires, at 8k miles with Dunlop Roadsmarts and the shake is gone. You'll prpbably end up with all good at your next tire change.

 

[FJRottie]

Although they lasted many miles, my stock front tire was a piece of crap (020s). They are prone to scalloping/cupping.

Big difference with a pattern like on the PRs or what have you.

The tread pattern on those 020s were put on by a monkey on LSD. They are so convoluted they cup faster than the chief cup maker at a paper cup factory can make a cup.

 

[xharleyrider]

Like so many here my bike developed a VIOLENT headshake on decellerating from 45-50 to 25 mph no braking. I dont mean a wobble, I mean it wanted to eject me as I let it grow to see how hard it would shake.

I am getting a little concern with this so called wobble with tires. Granted this is my first sport touring bike, but I have been ridiing for years and have never encounted this so called shaking!! Is this inherit of sport bikes? I can not imagine that a tire company would take on the liability of producing tires that can cause this type of situation. I would think that their would be many lawyers doing lazy circles waiting to pounce! And if this is a serious problem has anyone heard of anyone getting seriously injured?

I gots to know

 

[dean]

Like so many here my bike developed a VIOLENT headshake on decellerating from 45-50 to 25 mph no braking. I dont mean a wobble, I mean it wanted to eject me as I let it grow to see how hard it would shake.
I am getting a little concern with this so called wobble with tires. Granted this is my first sport touring bike, but I have been ridiing for years and have never encounted this so called shaking!! Is this inherit of sport bikes? I can not imagine that a tire company would take on the liability of producing tires that can cause this type of situation. I would think that their would be many lawyers doing lazy circles waiting to pounce! And if this is a serious problem has anyone heard of anyone getting seriously injured?

I gots to know

fj's are known for having a headshake aka potential tankslapper on decel from 50-35mph. not having cupped tires, having correct inflation, and having correctly-tightened steering head helps to reduce it, but it's still there.

dean

cincinnati

 

[xharleyrider]

Like so many here my bike developed a VIOLENT headshake on decellerating from 45-50 to 25 mph no braking. I dont mean a wobble, I mean it wanted to eject me as I let it grow to see how hard it would shake.
I am getting a little concern with this so called wobble with tires. Granted this is my first sport touring bike, but I have been ridiing for years and have never encounted this so called shaking!! Is this inherit of sport bikes? I can not imagine that a tire company would take on the liability of producing tires that can cause this type of situation. I would think that their would be many lawyers doing lazy circles waiting to pounce! And if this is a serious problem has anyone heard of anyone getting seriously injured?

I gots to know

fj's are known for having a headshake aka potential tankslapper on decel from 50-35mph. not having cupped tires, having correct inflation, and having correctly-tightened steering head helps to reduce it, but it's still there.

dean

cincinnati

I will try and make sure that I always have good set of tires with proper inflation and stearing head tightened!

You guys are scaring the s#@t out of me......I goint to sell my FJ and buy a HD...... :yahoo:

 

[user 213]

You guys are scaring the s#@t out of me......I goint to sell my FJ and buy a HD...... :yahoo:

Just keep your hands on the bars and it's a non-issue.

Just swapped some 021s off for a fresh set and noticed the head shake on the last ride prior to the tire swap. 021s cup too, even with 42/42 psi. All tires cup to some degree, it's aggravated by some riding styles. Especially braking into curves. Low pressures also make it happen quicker.

 

[J-DADDY]

Just gotta stick my two cents in on this.........

I own an '05 FJR, bought new in fall of '04. The bike came with 'stone 020s.

I rarely ride with the side cases on, never with a top case, sometimes with passengers.

Triple digit speed is not uncommon, 1/2" chicken strips, 40/40 psi. There was a fork brace installed in '06.

12,700 miles now on original tires. They are down to the wear bars and due for replacement-front tire cupped in the first few thousand miles.

After seeing the suspension settings suggested on this forum a couple months back, I dialed them in and found good overall improvment in handling (my settings were as delivered from the dealer) with bumps a bit harsher-acceptable trade off.

The above history so that it could be stated that I have NEVER experienced any sort of headshake or instability issues as read in these pages-hands off the bars on deceleration in particular, and I have tried to make it happen!

Anyone else with this type of experience?

JC

 

[dean]

You guys are scaring the s#@t out of me......I goint to sell my FJ and buy a HD...... :yahoo:

Just keep your hands on the bars and it's a non-issue.

Just swapped some 021s off for a fresh set and noticed the head shake on the last ride prior to the tire swap. 021s cup too, even with 42/42 psi. All tires cup to some degree, it's aggravated by some riding styles. Especially braking into curves. Low pressures also make it happen quicker.

yes, i left out one minor point. people will come on the fj list and say "when i'm decellerating, and i take my hands off the bars, i get a headshake aka potential tankslapper between 50mph and 35 mph. what's wrong?" and as OCfjr mentioned, the response is "just keep your hands on the bars and everything's fine." if you want to reduce it, then try the suggestions in my previous post.

sorry 'bout that, i should have been more thorough with my original response.

dean

cincinnati

 

[painman]

Ok, I'll chime in too. Stock Metzler Z-6's, good over all wear but cupping started to appear at around 5 thousand miles on the fronts. Took them off, installed Bridgestone 21's cupping appearing on the front at 4 thousand miles just like the Metzler's at 5 thou. No head shakes, or even hint of. I've tried running pressures at 36 to 42 on the front and seems to make no difference. And the rear is almost toast on the 21's at 4 thousand in the center portion.

So far I've seen not much difference in the few miles ridden on the two brands above with the 21's loosing out. So to me it seems like the tires can't handle the weight of the FJR and or riding styles. Sounds like the Dunlops are fairing the best so far for those who are running them. And of note here I just saw an ad in the new Cycle World mag that said the Bridgestone's 21's now run a dual compound on the front and a triple compound on the rear. Too little, too late? Maybe these could use a test....PM. <><

 

[mr.paul]

Wow, and how long has headshake been an issue?....

My '06 has been great. The only hint I have gotten of headshake has been when the steering head bearings got a little loose.

I ran the stock Metz Z6;s to 11K and the replacements, more Metz Z6's, have 8K so far. Yes they cup/scallop. Haven't had a cycle tire that doesn't. But still rides great!

Had a classic shake develop in a Vmax years ago. Same thing, hands off on decel at around 43-45mph. This happened immeadiately after gettng new Metz 880's installed. Inspite of me wanting to blame the tires, a lot of patience lead me to adjust the steering head bearings. That is all it turned out to be. Got 17K out of those tires before a nail got me.

I have never experienced instability due to the Givi V46 on the back, no matter what the speed. I frequently run past the limits printed on the warnings and have been overloaded in them many times. What are these people talking about? Then again, I cut a pretty wide swath in the wind.

Make sure of your steering head. Makes all the difference to me.

my 2 cents.

paul from Minnesota

 

[FJRottie]

You guys are scaring the s#@t out of me

Wow, and how long has headshake been an issue?....

Aside from tire cupping causing vibes, I have never ever had any headshake in 4 years on the FJR.

A "Headshake Issue"...I call ******** on that. Never heard of it aside from the odd person out of 100s or 1000s.

Those are probably because of a loose steering head, under inflation, etc etc.

 

[FJRocha]

When I first got Pandora, she had a serious shake of the front end. I asked in this forum and the consensus was that it was a common ocurrence and there was nothing I could do. This happened with and without the side cases, with and without the top case, and with any combination thereof. Then it came time to replace the original rubbers (BS 020's) and I replaced them with Michelin Pilots. I did the job myself and to my surprise, the problem went away!!!... my first impression is that it was caused by the tires and that the Pilot Roads were a blessing from the bike Gods.

Then it happened, I had a bit of a get-off and the front rim got squished into an eight (a little drama here). Pandora went in for surgery and after a few weeks in the ICU, she came out like new again. The Pilot Road tire that had solved the problem was still installed, but now the front end shake had returned. I attributed the problem to the mechanic that did the job. Right at that time I moved from Arizona to Florida and didn't have time to take it back to the shop for examination.

Time has passed since, and the moment came to farkle-in a wireless tire pressure sensor. I removed the tire, installed the sensor and placed the tire back in. I took Pandora for a ride to test the remote pressure monitor and... WTF??? THE SHAKE WAS GONE!!!!! Not reduced... it was just gone for good!!! Several times I took my hands off the handle bar and let it slowdown from 60 to about 20 mph without a single wiggle.

I scratched mi nugget for awhile and came to the conclusion that the only common factor in both occasions was that I balanced the tires myself. So for now, I am convinced that the cause of the front end shaking is improper balance of the front tire.

Some shops do a less than crappy job at balancing the tires, or their equipment is not adequately calibrated or the place all the weights on the same side of the rim. I do a painstaking static balance of the tire and distribute the weights equally on both sides of the rim to balance it left to right. This seems to make a difference.

If anyone wants to try this, I would like to hear the results.

 

[ionbeam]

Time has passed since, and the moment came to farkle-in a wireless tire pressure sensor. I removed the tire, installed the sensor and placed the tire back in. I took Pandora for a ride to test the remote pressure monitor and... WTF??? THE SHAKE WAS GONE!!!!! ...I scratched mi nugget for awhile and came to the conclusion that the only common factor in both occasions was that I balanced the tires myself. So for now, I am convinced that the cause of the front end shaking is improper balance of the front tire. ...

To which I would add, always inspect the bead line on the tire on both sides of the rim to ensure that the tire is properly seated on the bead. The bead line on the tire should be the same from side to side and perfectly even all the way around. If the rim was not perfectly clean or not enough lube was used the bead may not fully seat. A poorly seated tire will contribute to wobbles for sure. As FJRocha indicates, doing the job yourself often produces better results.

 

[FJReady]

I've had mild headshake issues with my previous tires, Azaros, Storms. A couple weeks ago I put on a set of Roadsmarts and the shake is gone. Mounted myself with my buddys HF setup, Marc Parnes type balancer.

Side note: I am liking the Roadsmarts even more after putting several hundred miles on them. The bike feels a little sportier, maybe holds a turn easier with less pressure on the bars to keep it there. Traction is A+

 

[Graham Downunder]

How many use topcase with side cases??

I have the Yamaha topcase , had it the first day I got the bike. Have had no problems what-so-ever with it. Loaded both sidecases with aprox 17 lbs of crap each, about twice that in the top case and my wife on back 1200 miles trip speeds now and then in the 3 digits...again no problem.

The only issue I have seen is sometimes riding solo some folks have noticed a little instability with all three bags on. This seems to be an issue of aerodynamics, not load. Cranking the windscreen up, or placing a bag on the passenger seat seems to solve this.

KM

It has a lot to do with areodynamic I think it was Oxford University that did a study in the mid 1970's and found the worse place to put a load was on the rack or in a top box . The air is disturbed and flows around the rider it then comes in then goes out because of the load or top box . As the top box is well past the center of the bike pressure applied to one side or the other ( or worse repeatedly changing between one side and the other ) has a very big affect . This occurs generally above say 60 mph, the faster the more the affect . When you have a pillion on the air passes around both of you and the load or top box not enough air comes it to hit the top box . You also changed the aerodynamics by moving the screen.

Aerodynamics on motorbikes are not very well understood or engineered into a bike ( other than race bikes ) . On my Suzuki VSTROM at about 60mph you can get air moving from my right hip /top of leg to the left hand side . You can actual put you hand down and feel it . I turned around and it was the same so it had nothing to do with crose wind ,I also tried with the thottle lock on using my right hand and was the same .

Tire pressure is very important I have read on many boards that to avoid front tires cupping you should run at least 40 psi .

I still to this day do not understand why motorcyle tire do not last longer ,I think the tread depth need to be about double and dual compound .