The brown pipe mystery

[motoquest]

Motoquest by any chance does the bike idle a lot like you start it once a week and let it run til the fans come on?

I ask cause you mentioned not being able to ride as much as you like. Some peeps start there bike and let it run

for a while to keep the battery charged.

I did that a couple of times. It wasn't every week...maybe 3 or 4 times a year anywhere from 5 to at most 15 min.

 

[motoquest]

Yeah, that is well worth 1000 words.That amount of discoloration of the pipe leading into the muffler is excessive.

Something is messed up with your fueling to cause that much blue that far down the pipe.

Wow, I've got to agree with FredW, even though he's mostly wrong ( )...it appears something "ain't quite right" with your FJR.

I took the liberty to zoom in on you photo...

"A", the mid-pipe, should NOT be that blue. The mid-pipe, as is the entire system, is stainless steel, which DOES turn gold (of a sorts) with heat and age. But blue...or in your case BLUE is fairly unusual. That is the sign of too much heat. As the mid-pipe normally doesn't get that hot, it also explains why the muffler, "B", is turning brown/gold. It's getting the kind of heat that normally only turns SS headers gold, so it, too, is getting way too many BTUs.

At this point, I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the catalytic converter, causing the excessive heat dissipation. Just curious...what color are the header, specifically in the area between the arrows...

I was able to confirm that the blueing only starts with the pipe at point "A". The header and cat dont seem to be discolored at all. Unfortunately I haven't had time yet to take off the mufflers to see if they have anything blocking the flow.

 

[ionbeam]

If there is enough blockage to cause problems the engine won't want to rev or pull hard in the upper rpm band. It is easier with a car, but you can use a vacuum gauge to look for symptoms. When you rev the engine the vacuum will drop then rise again if there is a blockage. The vacuum will also be slower to return to a normal level when the throttle is closed.

More work is to drill a head pipe and put a pressure gauge on the pipe. There will always be positive pressure but there will be more if there is a blockage. Dunno what is normal for a FJR. My Furd with high flow headers and oversize exhaust would run ~ 5 psi -- until the cats melted, then I used my vacuum gauge to diagnose the problem. I first noticed the exhaust blockage when the engine suddenly began to be unwilling to rev over 50%. Normally, the over temperature will happen ahead of the blockage (engine side), not after it.

If the blockage is due to an over heated catalytic converter partly melting the beads together the engine will fail a tail pipe EGA test.

 

[motoquest]

I decided to do an off the cuff test and put my hand over the exhaust of both pipes. The ride side (the more discolored pipe) seemed to be pushing less exhaust against my hand than the left side. I just took off the muffler and ran water from a hose through it to see if anything came out. So far nothing but it took a while before anything began to come out the exhaust side. This may be normal due to how a muffler is designed, I dont know.

If I were to determine there is a blockage of some sort in this muffler, how would I get it out? Would I just need to replace the muffler?

 

[08FJR4ME]

The difference between left and right doesn't mean much. Isn't the system 4 into 1 into 2? A difference between the sides could be marginally higher flow resistance in one can vs the other.

Ross

I think the left/right difference is significant, and by "flow problem" I was wondering about the can, not the catalyst. If the left side can is clogged or plugged, even partially, the extra flow to the right side could account for extra heat. Maybe? I confess to guessing here.

Woofshee may be on to something here. You did say you don't ride the bike much. Maybe some local rodents took up residency and stored up there winter harvest. You also stated you have never been above 5K rpm. You may not have accelerated the bike enough to push anything out of the cans. In 5 Min's you can remove two bolts that hold the muffler on. Take it off and see if anything is rolling around in there. Sir you may have blockage.

Dave

 

[motoquest]

Woofshee may be on to something here. You did say you don't ride the bike much. Maybe some local rodents took up residency and stored up there winter harvest. You also stated you have never been above 5K rpm. You may not have accelerated the bike enough to push anything out of the cans. In 5 Min's you can remove two bolts that hold the muffler on. Take it off and see if anything is rolling around in there. Sir you may have blockage.

Dave

I did take the pipe off and didn't hear anything rolling around and I did run water through it and nothing came out. I didn't turn up the hose too high but to be honest, we the way a muffler is designed, would anything be able to be flushed out?

 

[Bustanut joker]

ya.. your balls if ya had em.. This thread is fuked.

 

[08FJR4ME]

ya.. your balls if ya had em.. This thread is fuked.

Well I am done guessing at this one. For once I think your right bust!

Dave

 

[motoquest]

I scheduled a sniffer test with a local performance shop for next Wednesday. If that comes back clean then I will just polish up the pipes with simichrome and go about my business. If it doesn't then I have already printed out the barbarian jumper mod and will let them check to see if it has been done to the bike already.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Can't believe everyone is missing the obvious.

Perfect excuse for aftermarket pipes and a custom tune! :yahoo:

 

[motoquest]

Can't believe everyone is missing the obvious.

Perfect excuse for aftermarket pipes and a custom tune! :yahoo:

Haha, how true. If the mixtue is off then I plan to have the bike checked to see if the barbarian jumper mod has been done. If it hasn't then I will just throw in a power commander and download one of the maps and call it good. Although I would like an aftermarket set of pipes, I don't want to spend the $$ right now. Just too many other things pulling at the purse strings.

 

[Fred W]

Haha, how true. If the mixtue is off then I plan to have the bike checked to see if the barbarian jumper mod has been done. If it hasn't then I will just throw in a power commander and download one of the maps and call it good. Although I would like an aftermarket set of pipes, I don't want to spend the $ right now. Just too many other things pulling at the purse strings.

I don't think that is a very good plan.

If the CO is not borked up, then there must be some other reason for the totally screwed up fueling. Just installing a Power Commander is not likely to fix that. Even when using a Power Commander, the ECU is still doing the vast majority of the heavy lifting when delivering fuel ratios. You really need to figure out what is causing the hyper-rich fueling.

Yes, I said rich. If the mixture was lean, the heat would be right at the outlet of the exhaust ports and the bluing would be in the header pipes. It's not, it's in the pipes after the cats. So what must be happening is that the cats are going nuts burning the overly rich exhaust like an afterburner.

It could be a temp sensor that is keeping the ECU on cold mixture all of the time. A competent mechanic should be able to find the faulty sensor with just using the DIAGS screens.

Which reminds me, you can check if the barbarian jumper is installed yourself. Just go through the preliminary steps outlined in the CO adjustment procedure. If the jumper is not installed you'll never get to the CO settings from DIAGS. If it is installed, you can page through the settings and determine yourself if the values are "normal" or whacked.

Barbarian Jumper Mod

CO setting procedure

 

[wheatonFJR]

My head hurts...Fred makes too much sense here.

 

[RadioHowie]

I decided to do an off the cuff test and put my hand over the exhaust of both pipes. The ride side (the more discolored pipe) seemed to be pushing less exhaust against my hand than the left side.

I'm still betting on obstruction(s) in one or both mufflers causing a heat backup.

 

[motoquest]

Haha, how true. If the mixtue is off then I plan to have the bike checked to see if the barbarian jumper mod has been done. If it hasn't then I will just throw in a power commander and download one of the maps and call it good. Although I would like an aftermarket set of pipes, I don't want to spend the $ right now. Just too many other things pulling at the purse strings.

I don't think that is a very good plan.

If the CO is not borked up, then there must be some other reason for the totally screwed up fueling. Just installing a Power Commander is not likely to fix that. Even when using a Power Commander, the ECU is still doing the vast majority of the heavy lifting when delivering fuel ratios. You really need to figure out what is causing the hyper-rich fueling.

Yes, I said rich. If the mixture was lean, the heat would be right at the outlet of the exhaust ports and the bluing would be in the header pipes. It's not, it's in the pipes after the cats. So what must be happening is that the cats are going nuts burning the overly rich exhaust like an afterburner.

It could be a temp sensor that is keeping the ECU on cold mixture all of the time. A competent mechanic should be able to find the faulty sensor with just using the DIAGS screens.

Which reminds me, you can check if the barbarian jumper is installed yourself. Just go through the preliminary steps outlined in the CO adjustment procedure. If the jumper is not installed you'll never get to the CO settings from DIAGS. If it is installed, you can page through the settings and determine yourself if the values are "normal" or whacked.

Barbarian Jumper Mod

CO setting procedure

Thanks Fred. It sounds like getting the sniffer test is still worth it but if it does detect the mixture is too rich then take it to a normal mechanic to have them begin checking the sensors. I'd be nice to get the sensors checked on the spot but I'm guessing a performance shop isn't going to want to do normal mechanical troubleshooting or have the parts.

 

[motoquest]

I decided to do an off the cuff test and put my hand over the exhaust of both pipes. The ride side (the more discolored pipe) seemed to be pushing less exhaust against my hand than the left side.

I'm still betting on obstruction(s) in one or both mufflers causing a heat backup.

It is possible but I did take the pipe off and shook it. When I didn't hear anything I ran water through it and didn't see any debris come out. If you have a better way to check it outside of buying new pipes I'll give it a shot.

 

[ionbeam]

On the same lines as Fred W is taking, you can do a lot of sensor testing yourself, no mechanic needed. Check out the power of diAG.

 

[08FJR4ME]

I decided to do an off the cuff test and put my hand over the exhaust of both pipes. The ride side (the more discolored pipe) seemed to be pushing less exhaust against my hand than the left side.

I'm still betting on obstruction(s) in one or both mufflers causing a heat backup.

Give me the dam bike for a week and I guaranty there will be no obstructions when I am done. RED LINE here we Come. I think she needs to be rode hard and put away wet!

YAAAAHOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

[motoquest]

**** Mystery solved! I took the bike to have the sniffer test done today. The data shows the bike is lean at idle and the guy says that is completely normal and by design to meet EPA standards. As soon as you give it gas the mixture goes to right where it should. Everyone who said it was probably due to letting it idle to charge battery was dead on and now I can explain why. I am a happy camper now that i have concrete proof to explain the discolored pipes. Thanks again to all those who provided useful helps, especially Fred W., ionbeam, and radiohowie.

 

[wfooshee]

And just to add, it won't charge very well at idle anyway, not like a car would. If all you do is crank it and then idle for a while, you may actually have discharged the battery more than just having let it sit!

Stator output drops off sharply at low RPMS.

You'll stir the fluids and stuff, but that's about it.

Other than turning your pipes blue.....