The FJR's Stock Suspension SUCKS!

[SkooterG]

Have you ever heard the saying "The best you know is the best you've ridden?"

Ain't that the damned truth!

For 9 years now I have been cursing that damnd Warchild. THAT bastard is the one who convinced me to try my first custom suspension when he did the group buy for the Wilbers shock and fork springs back in 2004. Well, thanks to that asshat I'll never be able to own a motorcycle without a custom suspension ever again. I now *know* what improvement it makes.

As for the rest of you doubting mo-fos, I'll respond more in depth when I have some time. Technique-schmecknique! :finger:

 

[Surly]

Hi Scooter,

The pegs on my FJR are pristine, If you pay the postage I will consider a swap, then my bike would look ridden.

"Wore my peg feelers down a good third."

.

Compromise

I think that is where I am at.

I rode a new FZ1 on the weekend. First word, NIMBLE second word, FAST.

When I brought my FJR I was delighted with it, I still am. I have done some modest farkeling to personalise it a little, mostly in line with suggestions from this FORUM. The bike is about where I want it now. I think our bikes become a very good compromise between what we want and what we can afford.

Best regards

Surly

 

[extrememarine]

Lots of good discussion here.

Skooter’s statement is a bold one, but one derived from being cupped and spoiled – as he said, once you’ve tasted the kool aid, it becomes the drink of choice.

It’s not just set up. It’s not just riding technique. Skooter didn’t wake up and forget how to ride. It’s how all these things react and interact with each other – the rider, his (or her) habits, technique, style, finesse – the bike, suspension age and mileage, how it’s been cared for and maintained, how it’s set up (properly or not properly). Technique is not the fix. Throwing cash at the suspension is not the fix. It’s a combo of the two. I view a tweak to riding style as being just as important tweaking the suspension; neither are the answer in and of itself.

Suspension work was something I had a hard time spending the cash on. If you step back and look at the bike from the perspective of how well it works over such a wide variations in load and road conditions. From solo to two up and loaded, with a top box, tank bag, and maybe even a rack on top of the trunk, it does an admirable job doing what we ask of it.

It’s when you reach towards the outer edge of this envelope does it start fade. I wouldn’t call it a failure, as everything has its limits. It becomes a matter of you don’t know what you don’t know. Ride a particular stretch of road, back to back, on identical bikes (save for suspension) and you will see a difference. The question becomes, how much does “better” cost and can I afford it.

For me, the revelation was fully in view a view years ago on a nice stretch frost heaved section of some splendid Kentucky back road we were following. The rest of the group had moved out ahead – solo riders or two up /w suspension work that could cope with the harsh road conditions. I hit a section that completely overcame the rear shock / spring – it was the ‘perfect storm’. I buried the center stand hard in to the asphalt with enough force that the resulting impact hit with enough force to shoot searing pain up and down my spine (I was just out of the recovery phase of lower back fusion). My legs went numb along with most of my right side. As I coast to a stop, rolling, waiting for enough strength to return so I could stop without falling over, it became painfully clear if I was going to continue to ride, I needed the kool aid. And the kool aid tastes very good.

Why is the bike under sprung and under dampened? Yamaha is not marketing this plate form as an R1. Many ride it like one. If my ’09 were sprung and dampened the way it is now right out of the box, there’d be a line of riders moaning about how harsh and uncomfortable it was.

 

[wheatonFJR]

^^^^ Good summary^^^^^

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

It's technic, or lack there of. I was dragging hard parts all the time when I taught MSF. Then was "enlightened" by Mr. Code (as in Keith & Dillion Code), shown the path to smoother riding and body positioning, and now I rarely abuse a peg feeler. Food for thought...

Very true.

I ride ocasionally with Eric Seward. Eric is a Ex-Pro racer from the 90's who used to race at Willow Springs.

He's fast as Hell but he has Chicken Strips on his tires, he doesn't lean that much but he's very fast, it's his technic.

 

[Auron]

You think you're spoiled? By the grace of God I was lucky enough to get to ride Nicky Hayden's 1997 GSXR600. It was on a slow track and I was too timid to get my knee down but what set up on that sucker. There were no bumps on that track for the 15 mins I got to ride it, that's for sure.

 

[Auron]

 

[Surly]

I love watching those videos of Police Officers on Harleys that throw them about like toys between cones. Now that is some kind of riding, wish I could do that.

Best regards

Surly

 

[AKjitsu]

FJR’s with stock suspension are vulnerable to the malady eventually afflicting all bikes without compression dampening adjustment available on the rear shock. As the shock ages, things get bouncy in the rear. In an attempt to settle things down, the rider cranks down on the only thing available to him: rebound dampening. Since the compression dampening is now weak, every pavement imperfection causes the rear wheel to hop up into the chassis. But the tight rebound dampening won’t let the spring re-extend. And so with every bounce the rear wheel ratchets further and further up into the chassis; destroying ground clearance. Some folks call this “ratcheting”. Others call it “stacking”. This is exactly what you DON’T get with proper aftermarket shock goodness.

And Extreme Marine makes a fine point I desperately wish everybody would pay more attention to. Body position matters. A lot. A whole lot. Even very moderate “hanging off” can dramatically improve corner speed without using up your available safety cushion. Don’t take my word for it. Try it yourself. No need to do some sort of Casey Stoner thing where the seat is in one zip code and your ass in another. Just one half of one butt cheek is plenty. And make sure your head is off the bike centerline to the inside of the turn. Heads are real heavy. Find a nice long turn you’re familiar with and roll through it at a steady speed. Hang off for a moment, then pop yourself back straight on the chassis. And back and forth a few times. You’ll find the difference in chassis lean angle needed to maintain a fixed speed is pretty dramatic.

You’re welcome.

 

[Bungie]

The problem with hanging off is that when you do use up the extra you gained your well and truly screwed. Not that that has ever happened to me

 

[Old Guy]

Have you ever heard the saying "The best you know is the best you've ridden?"

I said "They do pretty well considering what we rode just a few, short years ago", not that I think the FJR can't be improved significantly if you throw enough money at it. Redfish Hunter is right that they can't please everybody, and imagine what this bike could cost if they tried. I guess I'm lucky that, at least so far, they've pleased me.

 

[Fred W]

FJR’s with stock suspension are vulnerable to the malady eventually afflicting all bikes without compression dampening adjustment available on the rear shock. As the shock ages, things get bouncy in the rear. In an attempt to settle things down, the rider cranks down on the only thing available to him: rebound dampening. Since the compression dampening is now weak, every pavement imperfection causes the rear wheel to hop up into the chassis. But the tight rebound dampening won’t let the spring re-extend. And so with every bounce the rear wheel ratchets further and further up into the chassis; destroying ground clearance. Some folks call this “ratcheting”. Others call it “stacking”. This is exactly what you DON’T get with proper aftermarket shock goodness.

Yeah, that was what I described in post #13 above as "packing up."

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Out of the showroom floor the FJR is an awesome and wonderful machine. The guys we were just 20 years ago would laugh at us for being whiny babies complaining about this bike's suspension.

BUT...There is always room for improvement. If you have the $$$ and if you have the knowledge, why not have the best? Or, with the FJR, why not improve the best?

Remember, without the right make-up, lighting, and cosmetic surgery, those young ladies in the SI swimmsuit issue would not look that good. But once you spend a little money in the right places, it's like magic. The FJR, like everything else you have to buy, responds to the right investments. That investment can be ergonomic improvement, wind protection, luggage capacity, suspension, or just learning to ride better. All of these things make it better. I like "better".

 

[MCRIDER007]

FJR’s with stock suspension are vulnerable to the malady eventually afflicting all bikes without compression dampening adjustment available on the rear shock. As the shock ages, things get bouncy in the rear. In an attempt to settle things down, the rider cranks down on the only thing available to him: rebound dampening. Since the compression dampening is now weak, every pavement imperfection causes the rear wheel to hop up into the chassis. But the tight rebound dampening won’t let the spring re-extend. And so with every bounce the rear wheel ratchets further and further up into the chassis; destroying ground clearance. Some folks call this “ratcheting”. Others call it “stacking”. This is exactly what you DON’T get with proper aftermarket shock goodness.

As a shock ages the damping oil can either (1) break down and become thinner or (2) become contaminated and get thicker.....or both. Usually its both, the oil initially gets thinner and the shock gradually loses both compression and rebound damping and feels like a pogo stick after you run out of adjustment.......but if you keep using it the oil eventually will get contaminated and thicker.....and may seem to be working a little better until it reaches the point where there is so much compression damping the spring can't compress and it feels like there is no shock at all. Most riders will not keep the OEM shock into the "contamination" phase, they will be so frustrated by the lack of damping that they replace the shock or the bike. After market shocks have a greater adjustment range to cope with thinner oil but are more exposed to external contamination so the need to have the shock serviced is not as obvious. Those who do not have their shock oil replaced will usually get to the "contamination" phase after 20-25,000 miles and will have a more expensive rebuild bill when they finally do have the shock serviced.

 

[Bounce]

Ok I'll take the bait... Obviously, you are riding too hard. How are you gonna smell the roses if you are starting fires out of every corner?

If he wants to smell the roses, he'll head over to the garden and set for a spell.

He happens to ride a sport tourer with 125 hp at the rear wheel. What kind of bike do you ride?

well said.

Ok I'll take the bait... Obviously, you are riding too hard. How are you gonna smell the roses if you are starting fires out of every corner?

If he wants to smell the roses, he'll head over to the garden and set for a spell.

He happens to ride a sport tourer with 125 hp at the rear wheel. What kind of bike do you ride?

well said.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Is that you Auron in the red helmet?

 

[Auron]

Have you ever heard the saying "The best you know is the best you've ridden?"

I said "They do pretty well considering what we rode just a few, short years ago", not that I think the FJR can't be improved significantly if you throw enough money at it. Redfish Hunter is right that they can't please everybody, and imagine what this bike could cost if they tried. I guess I'm lucky that, at least so far, they've pleased me.

You still aren't getting it, and Redfish is not correct. Stock FJR's are spung for a ~130lb'er. Spring rate and damping are independent of each other. Putting springs on the bike that would support the average weight of the average man wouldn't cost them a dime. Changing the internals to compensate would also hardly cost anything (at least not more than they are spending to set the bike up as it is now) Pleasing a the vast majority of FJR owners would not be that difficult for the them. Having the correct spring means the suspension rides higher in the stroke, which equals better ride quality and leaves room to provide more plush damping rates. It's damn near common sense and I can only chalk it up to them being stubborn.

 

[Auron]

Yes, that is me in the photo. Nicky's team set the bike up for mortals and donated the bike to a race school I was taking. The idea was to inform riders what a difference good suspension can make. I'd say it worked.

 

[MCRIDER007]

You still aren't getting it, and Redfish is not correct. Stock FJR's are spung for a ~130lb'er. Spring rate and damping are independent of each other. Putting springs on the bike that would support the average weight of the average man wouldn't cost them a dime. Changing the internals to compensate would also hardly cost anything (at least not more than they are spending to set the bike up as it is now) Pleasing a the vast majority of FJR owners would not be that difficult for the them. Having the correct spring means the suspension rides higher in the stroke, which equals better ride quality and leaves room to provide more plush damping rates. It's damn near common sense and I can only chalk it up to them being stubborn.

I think you are overlooking that Yamaha is selling the FJR to a worldwide audience and right or wrong, they have made a business decision not to have different suspensions for different countries. They tried that in 2003 and it didn't work out very well. The FJR suspension does fit lighter riders that ride at a moderate pace pretty well and that probably is the majority of FJR owners on a worldwide basis.

I have owned 2 FJR's and probably have split almost equal time on each with and without suspension upgrades. I much prefer the upgraded versions but the OEM suspensions were actually pretty good on relatively smooth roads up to a 6/10s pace. I would describe the OEM suspension as "soft" rather than "sucks".

 

[Neil San Diego]

My '07 started feeling "squeemish" and was "pogo-ing" around 18,000 miles. I put on a Penske and had GP do the front forks. Huge difference. Now, my '12 has a little over 11,000 and is starting to feel a bit loose - need to start thinking of upgrading the suspension on it. I think that's just how the suspension on these bikes go. I doubt that they are intended to last much past 10k.