This Will Be Very Helpful to All Riders

[Abercrombie FJR]

Yeah...

So here's where I get a bit concerned. Yeah those hooligans are ********. Yeah they should be corralled and prosecuted within reason. But meting out justice with spike strips is pretty much the same as shooting at them. The corrective action does not fit the "crime"

As far as I can see their crime was traffic violations. I did not see where they put anyone but themselves in harms way. If they had threatened, or physically harmed, another innocent motorist, like in the case ionbeam mentioned above, then yes... I would want the police to step in and do whatever is necessary to protect those innocents.

But where do you draw the line? Sure, wheelies down the highway, and most of the other ****** shenanigans that they were pulling are pretty extreme in terms of risk. So what about the guy that wicks it up on his FJR on the open highway to 120 or 140 mph? Twice the speed limit? Or those riders that pass the slow moving traffic on back roads over a clearly marked double yellow line (not in Vermont).

Aren't they equally as guilty of behavior that might be interpreted as extreme hooliganism? Should they also be shot on sight, or spike stripped into a deadly crash, too?

Aren't they actually us?

Wheelies, stoppies, Excessive speed, dragging pegs on a curves. I may have possibly performed some of these sins in a safer place and time. I will not be throwing rocks from my glass house.

 

[BigOgre]

Except I would like to think none of us would ignore, outrun or flip-off any LEOs we might cross paths with during those times. That mentality adds another dimension to it.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Yeah...

So here's where I get a bit concerned. Yeah those hooligans are ********. Yeah they should be corralled and prosecuted within reason. But meting out justice with spike strips is pretty much the same as shooting at them. The corrective action does not fit the "crime"

As far as I can see their crime was traffic violations. I did not see where they put anyone but themselves in harms way. If they had threatened, or physically harmed, another innocent motorist, like in the case ionbeam mentioned above, then yes... I would want the police to step in and do whatever is necessary to protect those innocents.

But where do you draw the line? Sure, wheelies down the highway, and most of the other ****** shenanigans that they were pulling are pretty extreme in terms of risk. So what about the guy that wicks it up on his FJR on the open highway to 120 or 140 mph? Twice the speed limit? Or those riders that pass the slow moving traffic on back roads over a clearly marked double yellow line (not in Vermont).

Aren't they equally as guilty of behavior that might be interpreted as extreme hooliganism? Should they also be shot on sight, or spike stripped into a deadly crash, too?

Aren't they actually us?

The willful contempt for the police officer makes this far more egregious than a mere traffic violation IMHO. I don't support the idea of using force to handle this, but I hope the police are able to identify and apprehend some of them. Besides the obvious traffic infractions, they may be guilty of at least misdemeanor eluding. A 30 day stay in jail, insurance issues and maybe a suspended driver's license would seem an appropriate response... doubt any of that will happen. The danger is that a pin-brained legislator will try to solve this with a law that is written without any regard for the majority of riders or any knowledge of what riding a motorcycle entails. There are already laws in some states and British Columbia that make it a crime to ride on the street with your butt off the seat. Even on my FJR I will often stand on the pegs to stretch my legs and rest my back. In some jurisdictions that is a crime and it is a crime ultimately because of jerks like those in the video.

 

[Fred W]

OK, so they should only throw out the spike strips (in an obvious attempt to kill them) or shoot them after they fail to pull over for the traffic violation?

I never said they didn't deserve to be ticketed or have their licensed revoked. I hope they do track them down, hand out justice , and then lety the whole world know about it so the next gang of hooligans may think twice about it. I just don't see trying to kill them over it.

 

[hppants]

Unfortunately, the damage is done. These sour grapes have spoiled the entire bunch for us.

Am I being overly sensitive, or does this phenomenon seem to be amplified with motorcycles. I think there are comparatively and proportionally just as many 4-wheeled asshats as there are motorcyclists. But this "1 is bad, they are all bad" attitude doesn't seem to transpose. Maybe it's because the critics are all 4-wheelers and to critize themselves would be unnatural.

After nearly 100,000 miles, I'm fully aware of the risk of riding a motorcycle. I hedge my bets as much as possible and hope/pray for the rest. I don't need the rest of the world rubbing my nose in it.

Sorry - I'm a little snippy this morning....

 

[Uncle Hud]

Jeez. Hemet-cam was on a hoon, and the punk posted it on the web? Gotta be a way to trace that back and ID the source.

Once upon a time, I was a young punk-ass doofus, too; but I never did my stupid **** out where the public was exposed to hazards, or where I was exposed to law enforcement.

And even as a punk-ass doofus, I would have never taunted a peace officer. Of course, that was the '60s in the Southland, and, apparently, attitudes were very different from 21st century California.

 

[1maxman]

These riders are a bunch of D-Bags, that is well noted by everything you see in the video. The CHiP did exactly what he/she should have done and nobody was injured. Karma will rear its head and deal with ass-bandits like these guys.

 

[Twigg]

The willful contempt for the police officer makes this far more egregious than a mere traffic violation IMHO.

One of the problems we are facing, and not merely in the sphere of motorcycling, is that many cops think that "contempt of cop" is a license to raise the seriousness of an offense to the point where they feel justified in taking any action they deem appropriate. Sometimes the safest course is simply to let them go, or call a helicopter and follow them at a safe distance. They will be caught eventually, even if not today. However fast a motorcycle is, very few can evade a helicopter pursuit.

Mis-behaving on a highway, where a clear danger to others is not an immediate threat, is simply a ticket. Cops over-reacting simply because someone was foolish enough to disobey them should not be an excuse to take actions that could lead to a loss of life.

I am getting a little tired of hearing stories where the cop later says "He was reaching for his waistband".

 

[rogdeb]

Officer did the only thing he could I reckon. Maybe they'll crash in the process one day ... thin the gene pool?

 

[Geezer]

I wonder how many of the group even had legal license plates. They can't really expect to get away with ignoring an officer like that if the license plates are valid.

 

[bluesdog]

Squids like this are the reason for the recent new regs in BC regarding butt on seat/feet on pegs. Jackasses, all of 'em.

 

[wfooshee]

Am I being overly sensitive, or does this phenomenon seem to be amplified with motorcycles. I think there are comparatively and proportionally just as many 4-wheeled asshats as there are motorcyclists. But this "1 is bad, they are all bad" attitude doesn't seem to transpose. Maybe it's because the critics are all 4-wheelers and to critize themselves would be unnatural.

Yes, there are asshats in cars, but generally they don't assemble 50 at a time to treat the freeway (or wherever) as their private playground.

Well, there are those videos from the middle east of "drifting" runs along the highways.......

 

[Rider]

I just saw a follow-up news report. The rider recording the video was apprehended and is facing two felony counts.

I do a little legwork for you:

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/CHP-Arrest-Suspect-in-Stunt-Rider-Motorcycle-680-Reckless-Driving-Girardeau-Singh-Khalsa-280967292.html

 

[Uncle Hud]

Thanks for the link. All that recklessness, and it's a misdemeanor? I would assume additional charges are pending for ignoring a police officer.

 

[UberKul]

We were all young, dumb and indestructible once. We learned the hard way through scar tissue or a friend learned for us that stupid hurts. Add in the mob mentality of these pent up city kids with questionable moral values and you get this. I'm sure there were more than a few of those guys in the back thinking this is really stupid and struggle with the disrespect shown to the officer just trying to do his job. In this vid the riding doesn't bother me much. ******* kids doing ******* stuff in a dumb place to get some attention and YouTube cred. The disrespect for others is what bothers me.

Sometimes, lying in the street bleeding is the only lesson that will stick.

 

[MajBach]

Why didn't they set up .. spike strips ahead? ...

Sorry, while I agree with the sentiment, I'd call that attempted murder.

If one of these ****** bags wiped out and sent their bike hurling into on-coming traffic, what would you call that?

 

[MajBach]

Yeah...

So here's where I get a bit concerned. Yeah those hooligans are ********. Yeah they should be corralled and prosecuted within reason. But meting out justice with spike strips is pretty much the same as shooting at them. The corrective action does not fit the "crime"

As far as I can see their crime was traffic violations. I did not see where they put anyone but themselves in harms way. If they had threatened, or physically harmed, another innocent motorist, like in the case ionbeam mentioned above, then yes... I would want the police to step in and do whatever is necessary to protect those innocents.

But where do you draw the line? Sure, wheelies down the highway, and most of the other ****** shenanigans that they were pulling are pretty extreme in terms of risk. So what about the guy that wicks it up on his FJR on the open highway to 120 or 140 mph? Twice the speed limit? Or those riders that pass the slow moving traffic on back roads over a clearly marked double yellow line (not in Vermont).

Aren't they equally as guilty of behavior that might be interpreted as extreme hooliganism? Should they also be shot on sight, or spike stripped into a deadly crash, too?

Aren't they actually us?

You cannot compare crossing a double solid yellow to resisting arrest ( or obeying the direction of a Peace Officer that justifcation in detaining you). One is a traffic violation and the other is an indictable criminal offence. There are a plethora of what-ifs that no Officer can reasonably be expected to assume or predict. What-if one of these guys wipes out into another car and kills someone? What-if they continue this behavoir on city streets and not just the highway after realizing the cops was powerless? What if one of these guys is wanted on a far bigger crime? These hoodlums have gone far beyond speeding. Their driving is "dangerous" and that is criminal and I would expect that that is an idicatable offence in that State. While spike strips or a pit maneuver may not be immediately warranted in this scenario (but possibily legally justifyable?), I think it's a reach to equate it to attempted murder. As much as some may be sick of hearing about cops "reaching for their waistband", I am equally sick of hearing people state "why did the cops do nothing?".

Yeah...

So here's where I get a bit concerned. Yeah those hooligans are ********. Yeah they should be corralled and prosecuted within reason. But meting out justice with spike strips is pretty much the same as shooting at them. The corrective action does not fit the "crime"

As far as I can see their crime was traffic violations. I did not see where they put anyone but themselves in harms way. If they had threatened, or physically harmed, another innocent motorist, like in the case ionbeam mentioned above, then yes... I would want the police to step in and do whatever is necessary to protect those innocents.

But where do you draw the line? Sure, wheelies down the highway, and most of the other ****** shenanigans that they were pulling are pretty extreme in terms of risk. So what about the guy that wicks it up on his FJR on the open highway to 120 or 140 mph? Twice the speed limit? Or those riders that pass the slow moving traffic on back roads over a clearly marked double yellow line (not in Vermont).

Aren't they equally as guilty of behavior that might be interpreted as extreme hooliganism? Should they also be shot on sight, or spike stripped into a deadly crash, too?

Aren't they actually us?

You cannot compare crossing a double solid yellow to resisting arrest ( or obeying the direction of a Peace Officer that justifcation in detaining you). One is a traffic violation and the other is an indictable criminal offence. There are a plethora of what-ifs that no Officer can reasonably be expected to assume or predict. What-if one of these guys wipes out into another car and kills someone? What-if they continue this behavoir on city streets and not just the highway after realizing the cops was powerless? What if one of these guys is wanted on a far bigger crime? These hoodlums have gone far beyond speeding. Their driving is "dangerous" and that is criminal and I would expect that that is an idicatable offence in that State. While spike strips or a pit maneuver may not be immediately warranted in this scenario (but possibily legally justifyable?), I think it's a reach to equate it to attempted murder. As much as some may be sick of hearing about cops "reaching for their waistband", I am equally sick of hearing people state "why did the cops do nothing?".

 

[mcatrophy]

Why didn't they set up .. spike strips ahead? ...

Sorry, while I agree with the sentiment, I'd call that attempted murder.

If one of these ****** bags wiped out and sent their bike hurling into on-coming traffic, what would you call that?

Suicide and potentially manslaughter (or whatever the equivalent is in your neck of the woods), commited by a "****** bag", not by an officer who is supposed to uphold the law.

 

[MajBach]

I disagree. It would far more likely be criminal negligence causing death and even possibly second degree murder. But I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make. I believe you stated that putting out spike strips would constitute an act of murder on the police. I would argue that there is no guarantee that a pit maneuver or spikes on even a four wheel vehicle still has a significant probability of harm to the driver. Heck, there are a significant percentage of car chases that end up with the driver being fatally injured in a wreck caused by his own doing. Does that make the police guilty of murder for commencing the chase?
I cannot readily think of other options that are at police disposal if they deemed these drivers needed to be stopped. And, I also think that a court would determine that the use of spike strips is a reasonable expectation by any driver as a device used to obtain compliance.
In this scenario, I’m assuming that the cop concluded that these guys would ride themselves out and/or get off the highway now that they had been spotted by the law and the only person that was in any immediate danger was the cop himself. He did the right thing. But to defend the drivers by stating that the cops would be murderers by employing spike strips is too far.

My point is, had the outcome of this incident resulted in the death of an innocent bystander or motorist, there would be an outpouring of protest demanding the cop's head for not doing enough at the time.

 

[mcatrophy]

Why didn't they set up .. spike strips ahead? ...

Sorry, while I agree with the sentiment, I'd call that attempted murder.

If one of these ****** bags wiped out and sent their bike hurling into on-coming traffic, what would you call that?

Suicide and potentially manslaughter (or whatever the equivalent is in your neck of the woods), commited by a "****** bag", not by an officer who is supposed to uphold the law.

I disagree. It would far more likely be criminal negligence causing death and even possibly second degree murder. But I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make. I believe you stated that putting out spike strips would constitute an act of murder on the police. I would argue that there is no guarantee that a pit maneuver or spikes on even a four wheel vehicle still has a significant probability of harm to the driver. Heck, there are a significant percentage of car chases that end up with the driver being fatally injured in a wreck caused by his own doing. Does that make the police guilty of murder for commencing the chase?I cannot readily think of other options that are at police disposal if they deemed these drivers needed to be stopped. And, I also think that a court would determine that the use of spike strips is a reasonable expectation by any driver as a device used to obtain compliance.

In this scenario, Im assuming that the cop concluded that these guys would ride themselves out and/or get off the highway now that they had been spotted by the law and the only person that was in any immediate danger was the cop himself. He did the right thing. But to defend the drivers by stating that the cops would be murderers by employing spike strips is too far.

Blow out the tyres on a car, it causes the car to be difficult to drive, slows it down. Even if it crashes, it's unlikely to hurt its occupants. Seen it many times on police videos (some of my tv viewing is a little sad). Try that on a speeding motorcycle? You guarantee the rider will come off, hard. You guarantee he will be seriously, likely fatally, injured.
There's a big difference between a mis-behaving motorcyclist who has no intention of harming anyone other than pissing people off, and someone ensuring that motorcyclist has a severe, life-threatening accident.

I am in no way condoning the riders' antics. Yes, there was a chance they could harm someone. A chance. That's a little different from guaranteeing to severely hurt someone.