Thread spin off about possible change to Rotella Diesel Oil

Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum

Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
zombie_girl.jpg


While this particular thread isn't an ancient, creaking, dust-covered zombie like some/most around here, it IS particularly foul and stinky, deserving of its own representative graphic.
Is that Rotella 5-40 T6 dripping from the zombies mouth? should synthetic oil be used for zombies? how many death bites should a zombie get to the quart?
See there Steve, Mike and Skooty: Bob from Bradenton understands the importance and vitality of this ever important thread. Great Minds Think Alike Bob, keep up the good work there Brother!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
it IS particularly foul and stinky,
Just like mi ******* step-pappy beemerdons! What a dork!
Skooter, I hate agreeing with you, but papa chuey deserves the disrespect for dredging up this abortion of a thread.
No doubt. It's an egregious offense. Perhaps I should put him on FJRForum 'Time-Out' for a week or so!
Oh Gawd, Yes...please do! I'll even join him in 'Time-Out' if it makes your decision-making any easier. I'll take the hit to preserve the sanctity (and sanity) of the forum! :rofl:

(besides, YOU brought up the idea of a "sanction", so if you DON'T do it, you ain't got no huevos!)
:eek: RH used the words sanity and forum in the same sentence. :rofl:

 
Oh Gawd, Yes...please do! I'll even join him in 'Time-Out' if it makes your decision-making any easier. I'll take the hit to preserve the sanctity (and sanity) of the forum! :rofl:

(besides, YOU brought up the idea of a "sanction", so if you DON'T do it, you ain't got no huevos!)
:eek: RH used the words sanity and forum in the same sentence. :rofl:
Radio Howie is a tool. Speaking of tools, I heard if you soak your good tools in Rosella, it will prevent rust and corrosion. But don't use the synthetic stuff...Its really slick.

 
Oh Gawd, Yes...please do! I'll even join him in 'Time-Out' if it makes your decision-making any easier. I'll take the hit to preserve the sanctity (and sanity) of the forum! :rofl:

(besides, YOU brought up the idea of a "sanction", so if you DON'T do it, you ain't got no huevos!)
:eek: RH used the words sanity and forum in the same sentence. :rofl:
Radio Howie is a tool. Speaking of tools, I heard if you soak your good tools in Rosella, it will prevent rust and corrosion. But don't use the synthetic stuff...Its really slick.
Dude, shouldn't you be out pissing in your rain pants or something! You do have a point about soaking your TOOL in Rotella though, I'm changing Lucy Liu's oil this morning in preparation for the Mexico ride. I do think I will soak my TOOL in the drain pan!

 
Oh Gawd, Yes...please do! I'll even join him in 'Time-Out' if it makes your decision-making any easier. I'll take the hit to preserve the sanctity (and sanity) of the forum! :rofl:

(besides, YOU brought up the idea of a "sanction", so if you DON'T do it, you ain't got no huevos!)
:eek: RH used the words sanity and forum in the same sentence. :rofl:
Radio Howie is a tool. Speaking of tools, I heard if you soak your good tools in Rosella, it will prevent rust and corrosion. But don't use the synthetic stuff...Its really slick.
Rosella? who's Rosella? and is she hot?

 
Oh Gawd, Yes...please do! I'll even join him in 'Time-Out' if it makes your decision-making any easier. I'll take the hit to preserve the sanctity (and sanity) of the forum! :rofl:

(besides, YOU brought up the idea of a "sanction", so if you DON'T do it, you ain't got no huevos!)
:eek: RH used the words sanity and forum in the same sentence. :rofl:
Radio Howie is a tool. Speaking of tools, I heard if you soak your good tools in Rosella, it will prevent rust and corrosion. But don't use the synthetic stuff...Its really slick.
Rosella? who's Rosella? and is she hot?
Rosella dated RadioHowie for awhile, but she broke up with him; don't worry though Joe, RH didn't stretch her out!

 
Goddammed phone and its autocorrecting BS function. I try to say Rotella but until I just now saved it, it defaults to Beemerdons' new girlfriend Rosella. Weird.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am too a Rotella oil user and while pondering this thread on the Rotella diesel oil I went to my local GM dearlership, in Canada BTW, and they don't carry the GM E.O.S. assembly lube 1#1052367. What they do carry is AC Delco E.O.S. 1#992869. I didn't get any as I was unsure if it was the same product. The service manager assured me that it was and the GM stuff is only soild in the USA. The AC Delco is the Canadian version. I did a little digging on the net and found this article. After reading it I am now strongly thinking of going back and getting some. Any thoughts?

Mind you most of the following info is based more towards the auto industry but the part about Rotella Diesel oil is what I wanted to see. Hope this helps. BTW they do refer to the "boutique" oils which I guess are referring to the motorcycle oils.

Engine Oil Revisited

January 10, 2008

When I finished writing the first edition of The Shadow Owners Companion in the Fall of 2006, the prevailing

wisdom on motor oil was straightforward – make sure that your motor oil choice is rich in ZDDP (zinc dialkyl

dithiophosphate). Quite a bit has been written about this subject in club magazines since then including the

September 2007 issue of Self Starter from the Cadillac-LaSalle Club. This particular article has been mentioned

quite a bit in classic car circles recently. Chock full of good information, a few of the recommended oils are no

longer available, so here are some new recommendations and some additional thoughts on the subject as well.

Despite what you may think, the much-maligned EPA is not at the center of this maelstrom; rather, the North

American automotive OEMs have put pressure on the American Petroleum Institute (API) to release new

standards that lower the amount of phosphorus in motor oil. Phosphorus tends to reduce the efficacy of the

catalyst over time and with new mandates requiring emissions systems warranties up to 120,000 miles, reducing

the amount of phosphorus enables the OEMs to specify smaller (and less expensive) catalysts. These reducedspec

oils appeared on passenger car motor oils API rated SM and subsequently on diesel oils (like Shell Rotella T

and Mobil Delvac Super 1300) API rated CJ-4. The CJ-4 spec with reduced ZDDP became necessary as all

over-the-road diesels including tractor trailers came equipped with catalysts starting with the 2007 model year.

Why do we need an oil rich in ZDDP? This compound bonds with the ferrous elements in your engine and

provides a protective anti-scuffing function that prevents damage at the points that experience the highest metal

to metal pressures. For classic car engines with flat tappets, the major pressure point is where the cam slides

against the tappet face. These pressures are worst with engines that have heavy valve springs – for example,

those with aggressive cam profiles, large valves and/or high rev limits. Although our engines have big valves, our

cam profiles are mild and rev limits low. This puts our engines at less immediate risk than say a vintage Porsche

356 or 396 Chevelle. These engines accumulate cam wear in their engines at a faster rate, and we can thank

their owners for determining the root cause and finding a path to salvation.

This concern does not equally apply to all Rolls-Royce and Bentley motors. Roller tappet engines are at less risk

than their flat tappet brethren because the sliding friction is not as great. If you own a pre-war Rolls-Royce or

Bentley, you can relax as only the Phantom II, Phantom III, Wraith and (ultra rare) Mark V have flat tappets.

Unfortunately, almost all post-war Rolls-Royce and Bentley engines have flat tappet designs with the exception

the Silver Seraph and Green Label Bentley Arnage, Bentley Continental GT, and the New Phantom.

Given the relatively conservative design of our engines, having done an oil change or two with the new low ZDDP

oils probably will not have a discernible effect on the life of your already broken in engine. It’s somewhat like

drinking or smoking – the cumulative effect is what leads to health problems.

Rebuilt engines are an entirely different kettle of fish. The sporting and muscle car folks have experienced the

bulk of the problems with gross camshaft failures during the break-in period, with less than 1,500 miles on the

clock. If you are in the process of rebuilding an engine, oil selection is critical until everything is broken in.

How much ZDDP is enough? Most of the automotive pundits seem to agree that a proper motor oil for a flat

tappet engine should test with a minimum of 1,200 PPM (0.12%) by weight each for zinc and phosphorus.* The

now discontinued CI-4 rated Shell Rotella T and Mobil Delvac Super 1300 had over 1,300 PPM of zinc and

phosphorus. The discontinued SL rated versions of Mobil 1 all had over 1,400 PPM† for each. Unfortunately,

virtually all of the currently available oils with the latest SM or CJ-4 designations have zinc and phosphorus levels

at or below 1,000 PPM.

You can still buy “boutique” oils with the proper formulation. Depending on the manufacturer, these might not be

API rated. Quite often, they are labeled for motorcycle or racing use and usually available at speed shops and

through the internet. (Yes, it is legal to mail motor oil within the United States as the flash point is well above

200°F, which is what the regulations for flammable liquids require.) Based on lab tests tabulated by LN

Engineering, a manufacturer of performance parts for classic Porsches in California, choices for properly

formulated oils in relevant grades for Silver Shadow and Silver Spur era 6.23/6.75L V-8s are shown in Table 1.

* The 1977 SAE paper “Cam and Lifter Wear as Affected by Engine Oil ZDP Concentration and Type” written by

two GM Engineers provides plenty of data to support the assertion that 1200 PPM is “knee” in the curve of wear

rate vs. ZDDP concentration for flat tappet engines.

† With the exception of SL-rated Mobil 1 0W-40, which had ~1,000 PPM of zinc and phosphorus.

Brand Viscosity

Zinc

(ppm)

Phosphorus

(ppm) API Type

Street

price per

quart

Cost for

oil

change

Mobil 1 MX4T 10W-40 1542 1344 SG Synthetic $8.25 $82.50

Royal Purple

Max Cycle

10W-40 1222 4085 SJ Synthetic $7.00 $70.00

Redline 10W-40 1872 1440 SL Synthetic $8.00 $80.00

Swepco 306 15W-40 1476 1238 CI-4 Conventional‡ $6.00 $60.00

Royal Purple

Max Cycle

20W-50 3907 1458 SJ Synthetic $7.00 $70.00

Mobil 1 V

Twin

20W-50 1329 1949 SG Synthetic $8.25 $82.50

Brad Penn

Grade 1

Racing

20W-50 1250 Not tested SJ Conventional‡ $4.50 $45.00

Swepco 306 20W-50 ~1400 ~1200 CI-4 Conventional‡ $6.00 $60.00

Mobil 1 15W-50 Unknown 1200 SM Synthetic $6.00 $60.00

Table 1 – Currently Available Oils with Proper Amount of ZDDP

If you are looking to research other grades of oil, www.lnengineering.com/oil.html is a wonderful resource put

together by Charles Navarro. Most of the data in this document are based his lab results.

You can formulate your own oil by buying your favorite oil in the latest SM or CJ-4 spec and then adjust the ZDDP

content with an engine oil supplement. The choice favored in the Self Starter article is GM EOS 1052367. This

was discontinued during the summer and has been replaced by AC Delco EOS 10-106. The AC Delco product is

reported to have the same formulation as the GM, but I have not seen any lab results as confirmation. STP Oil

Treatment for four cylinder engines (STP Red) is a relatively inexpensive alternative. I would not recommend it

for the simple reason that you would have to use four bottles to bring your oil up to snuff. At that point 20-25% of

your crankcase would be STP rather than motor oil. (See Tables 2 and 3.)

Brand Size

Zinc

(ppm)

Phosphorus

(ppm)

Street

price per

bottle Comments

GM EOS 1052367 16 oz. 6221 5762 $16 Discontinued, but still available.

AC Delco EOS 10-106 16 oz. 6221 5762 $10-12 Replacement for GM EOS.

Assumed to be the same

formula.

STP Red 15 oz. 3932 2115 $2.89 Need at least four bottles to

raise zinc to 1,200 PPM in avg.

SM oil.

Table 2 – Additives with ZDDP

Average lab results Predicted results with EOS added

Amount of

additive to include

in 9-1/2 qt. oil

change.

API Rating Zinc (ppm)

Phosphorus

(ppm) Zinc (ppm)

Phosphorus

(ppm)

GM or AC Delco

EOS (oz.)

CJ-4 1014 819 1562 1339 32

SM 939 770 1495 1295 32

Table 3 – Average Zinc and Phosphorus Found in Currently Available Oils and How to “Correct” Them

I talked to world-renowned postwar Rolls-Royce expert John Palma at Palma’s Automotive Services in Audubon,

New Jersey. He indicated that they have seen cam wear issues on Crewe built Rolls-Royce and Bentleys and

that they use Justice Brothers Oil Treatment when performing oil changes at the shop. I have not found any lab

‡ highly refined parrafinic based petroleum oil, definitely not bargain basement stuff.

data on the ZDDP content of this product, but it may very well turn out to be an excellent alternative to AC Delco

EOS. Stay tuned.

There are many permutations and combinations of oils and supplements. Table 4 boils down the data into three

choices for 10W-40 synthetic lovers, two choices for 15W-40 diesel oil aficionados, three choices for 20W-50

fanatics and one for 15W-50 synthetic. Note that there are no Valvoline VR-1 picks on my list. VR-1 tested less

than our borderline for zinc at 1085 ppm and the VR-1 NSL (“not street legal”) version has even less at about 840

ppm. If you don’t like my choices, there’s plenty of data on the LN Engineering website and elsewhere to

formulate your own solution. And if you are wondering what my plans are: the 1939 Wraith and 1973 Silver

Shadow will be switched over to Swepco 306 15W-40 at their next oil change.

Oil API Viscosity Supplement

Cost for

9-1/2 qt.

oil

change. Comments

Shell Rotella T

(8-1/2 qts.)

CJ-4 15W-40 AC Delco

10-106

(32 oz.)

$54 Puts the ZDDP back into

good ‘ole Rotella.

Swepco 306

(9-1/2 qts.)

SJ/CG-4 15W-40 none $60 Very high quality

conventional motor oil, if

you swore by CI-4 Shell

Rotella T or Mobil Delvac

Super 1300, this is even

better. The BMW and

Porsche guys love this stuff.

Royal Purple Max

Cycle (9-1/2 qts.)

SJ 10W-40 none $70 Run full synthetic at a lower

cost than Mobil 1 options

below.

Mobil 1 High

Mileage

(8-1/2 qts.)

SM 10W-40 AC Delco

10-106

(32 oz.)

$83 One option for Mobil 1

enthusiasts…

Mobil 1 MX4T

(9-1/2 qts.)

SG 10W-40 none $83 Another option for Mobil 1

enthusiasts.

Brad Penn

Grade 1 Racing

(9-1/2 qts.)

SJ 20W-50 none $45 Brad Penn also offers 30W

break-in oil, for those of you

rebuilding older R-R six

cylinder engines. Both oils

highly recommended.

Royal Purple Max

Cycle (9-1/2 qts.)

SJ 20W-50 none $70 Run full synthetic at a lower

cost than Mobil 1.

Swepco 306

(9-1/2 qts.)

SJ/CG-4 20W-50 none $60 Very high quality

conventional motor oil.

Mobil 1

(9-1/2 qts.)

SM 15W-50 None $60 Exxon-Mobil recently

published the ZDDP content

of all their synthetic oils and

this one is the only one they

recommend for flat tappet

engines.

Table 4 – Total Cost of Oil Change (Minus Filter)

At Sherbourne Mews, we set out to publish a little niche publication on Rolls-Royce Silver Shadows and perhaps

manufacture a few unique automotive tools and the like. We didn’t set out to be in the oil business, but we are

happy to give it a try. As of Oct. 18, 2007, you can buy cases of Swepco 306 15W-40 and 20W-50 from us!

 
Just nothing better to do on a Thursday afternoon while we are getting 4" of F@*!ing rain!! :angry03: Maybe I could go stand in line at Home Depot for the big sale on the DIY ark kit.

 
FYI everyone....Steve'o's most excellent post is a cut'n'paste from a PDF file, so the tables got munged REAL bad, making it hard for numbskulls like me to read and understand.

HERE'S the original PDF for your entertainment...

 
Just nothing better to do on a Thursday afternoon while we are getting 4" of F@*!ing rain!! :angry03: Maybe I could go stand in line at Home Depot for the big sale on the DIY ark kit.
Steve-O please send your rain to Arizona, Phoenix has only had 2.10" since January 1st.

By the way, if I was in Fredericton, New Brunswick on a rainy day I know what I'd be doing!

 
Top