tick fix

[apratt]

> Didn't they replace the head in the Aussie bulliten ... ?

No, I don't think that was the recommendation in the Australian bulletin. They recommended replacing the guides and valves using a "new" valve - different part number. They thought this was caused by the guide and valve being of incompatible materials. Since there have been tickers in all years since 2001, this is not seen as a permanent fix today. See the articles at my FJR tick page to find an image of the bulletin:

www.bestbits.org/fjr1300

The latest development in tick repair is a new part number for replacement valve guide seals. I don't know enough about engines to know what that implies by way of root-cause analysis: if a guide seal fails, what happens? Could the guide start to move around, and would that permit more contact between the guide and stem, leading to abrasion and the excessive play we've seen? If a case can be made for this, then I'll have more confidence that new seals will fix this once and for all.

 

[papaw]

My last and only experience with a ticker at our shop, Yamaha replaced the valves, guides, and seals. The rumor I heard, was the root cause were the seals. Not that they were defective in workmanship or material, but that they were too tight a fit and not allowing proper lubrication of the valve and valve guide. Don't know if that is true or not. Also I've seen many posts on this problem on this board and others ,and it amazes me that we've seen only this one machine, and this machine which had approx. 20,000 mi when it was brought in. The owner of our shop owns an "03" with close to 20k mi. and I own an "05" ABS, but I've only got about 3k mi., neither of these show the ticking signs. I realize mine has a few more thousand to go before reaching the milage range where the tick begins. Also could be a sign that not as many FJR's were sold in Indiana.

One other point when we ordered the parts they actually got there PDQ.

Just info for the post, not that I agree or disagree with any previous posts.

 

[T120TT]

I wonder if all FJRs eventually get the tick. Do 04 and 05 tick less frequently than 03's? I've got an '05 and am considering trading up to an '06 because of this issue. Comments anyone?

 

[MCRIDER007]

I wonder if all FJRs eventually get the tick. Do 04 and 05 tick less frequently than 03's?  I've got an '05 and am considering trading up to an '06 because of this issue. Comments anyone?

Only Yamaha knows the answer to your question but there seems to be a lower percentage of 04 tickers than 03s, and a even lower percentage of 05s that are tickers. But this may be due to lower miles accumulated to date. Most of the 03s started ticking between 5,000-10,000 miles, now there seems to be 04s that are ticking at 20,000 to 25,000 miles. All three years share the same valve stem seals if that is really the root cause -- and it may not be the root cause even though it may be the cure.

I have an 05 and I am not going to move to an 06 because of this issue. I will just get it fixed, hopefully with the 06 valve guide seals, and if that really is the solution then I will in the same position as the 06 owners. If the valve guide seals are not the solution then moving to an 06 over this issue will cost more $$$ than keeping what you have.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Just because you haven't seen but one doesn't mean that there are alot more tickers than Yamaha wants to admit. When simple parts become backordered that must mean they are going somewhere. With what we see on the sites are just the site registered users. I have come across quite a few FJR riders that use but don't register on the forums. So we don't know how many tickers are not diagnosed because the owners are not aware of the sound. Or the dealers aren't aware and can't identify the noise which was in most cases til the sites spread the word and informed the dealers with info that Yamaha would not.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Just because you haven't seen but one doesn't mean that there are alot more tickers than Yamaha wants to admit. When simple parts become backordered that must mean they are going somewhere. With what we see on the sites are just the site registered users. I have come across quite a few FJR riders that use but don't register on the forums. So we don't know how many tickers are not diagnosed because the owners are not aware of the sound. Or the dealers aren't aware and can't identify the noise which was in most cases til the sites spread the word and informed the dealers with info that Yamaha would not.

I am not sure what your point is but exhaust valves, guides, and seals are not simple parts and normally would not have to be replaced so you would expect a very low inventory of those parts. I doubt that Yamaha has much of a nationwide inventory of intake valves either. I know this is very frustrating for those waiting to get their tickers fixed but it is actually an indication that the demand for those parts has not been as great as some think, it just happens that there are more tickers being fixed right now than there has been in the past.

In the same vein, many owners have had a hard time finding a dealership that has experience in fixing a ticker or even is aware of the problem. I think this is an indication that the tick is not nearly as common as some think it is. No one has any real numbers and it may be years before real numbers can be determined since the tick is now showing up in higher mileage engines.

Be patient and remember that the tick is not a safety issue, you are not going to break down and get stranded because of it, and you can't do any additional damage to the engine by running a ticker since some have run their engines for 30,000 miles after it started. If you have a ticker, look for a dealership to fix it, but in the meantime, just keep riding and have it fixed on your schedule.

 

[Ramblin Man]

back to the actual head job...

The head has to be heated in an oven then the old valve guides are pressed out. Back in the oven and then the new guides are pressed in. Or at least thats the proceedure. Then the guides have to be reamed with the special tool from Yamaha which makes sure the guides are the proper size after the pressing into the head.

Any good service guy will order all new seals and guides just to be safe. The only old parts my guy used were the valve springs and the cams.

 

[Constant Mesh]

It would seem that someone's ticking engine would have experienced an exhaust valve stuck from friction in the down or open position. This would lead to a broken valve, piston, etc. and an unusable engine.

Yet, I've never seen any reports of this happening. The friction between valve stem and guide must be very, very minimal but during the many, many up/down oscillations of the valve a gradual wearing/eroding of the guide occurs.

 

[Ramblin Man]

What happens is the stem galls and acts like a file hollowing out the guide. Most of us whiners are too impatient to let it go long enough for any catastrophic damage to occur.

 

[Toecutter]

If you have a ticker, look for a dealership to fix it, but in the meantime, just keep riding and have it fixed on your schedule.

However, if you suspect you have a ticker at say 22,000 miles and you wait until 26,000 to take it in, you will probably have to pay for an adjustment service (not cheap). My adjustment was paid for by Yamaha as it wasn't due for another 4,000 miles. YMMV.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Seems to me that Yamaha has known this for a couple of years now. Many have held off knowing that installing oem parts was just replacement and not a fix. I drove mine over 14,000 miles waiting for Yamaha to acknowledge this and make it easier to get the repair. And guess what not just the 1&2 cylinder with carbon but all four with the #4 being the worst. I started using oil and guess where it was going.So they changed stems and seals. If there was no problem then why the change? 06 is supposed to cure the tick, we shall see. Yamaha does not want a recall so they are not sending a bulliten like they did in Austrailiato acknowledge a problem. They do not want dealers making their decisions to fix the tick. I still believe without replacing the head the current fix is just a patch til it all blows over and the warranties are all gone.

 

[MCRIDER007]

However, if you suspect you have a ticker at say 22,000 miles and you wait until 26,000 to take it in, you will probably have to pay for an adjustment service (not cheap). My adjustment was paid for by Yamaha as it wasn't due for another 4,000 miles. YMMV.

Funny you should mention that because I was planning on getting a free valve check out of the deal if my 05 starts ticking. It will probably depend on the dealer but I don't think they could charge you for a valve check verification to diagonse the tick if the valves are within specifications. If it turns out that some of the valves are way out then I would guess you would be charged for a valve adjustment because Yamaha would assume that is the cause of the noise. I think if you keep riding after the tick starts then it will eventually get loud enough that a valve verification will not be necessary -- but it will depend on the dealer and their experience fixing tickers.

 

[Longrider]

However, if you suspect you have a ticker at say 22,000 miles and you wait until 26,000 to take it in, you will probably have to pay for an adjustment service (not cheap). My adjustment was paid for by Yamaha as it wasn't due for another 4,000 miles. YMMV
My bike went in at over 27,000 for a valve check. Wilsons did the valve check and all that goes with it, but the "tick" didn't go away. I had reported "valve noise" at 15,000 miles to another dealer, but he couldn't hear it. He did report this to Yamaha at Cypress.

The entire cost for all the work was paid for by Yamaha, even the cost of the valve check/adjustment, replacement coolant, etc.

Longrider

 

[apratt]

FJRVTX1300S wrote: "I still believe without replacing the head the current fix is just a patch til it all blows over and the warranties are all gone."

I don't think we have enough information to decide whether the new seals are a fix, or if Yamaha needs to reengineer the whole head. I choose to be optimistic - new seals means Mamma Yamma has found *something*.

Regarding warranties: your logic would apply if Yamaha were only fixing tickers that are in warranty, but the fact is they are fixing tickers that are out of warranty too. (Including mine.) It might take more work on the part of the owner - talking to Customer Service, not just the dealer - but it is not at all uncommon.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Yea but once they fix them and time exceeds the extended how many do you think they will fix? I think it will come to a stop and they will only warranty the work for a stated amount of time, say 90 days, 6 months, 1 year, 12,000 miles? Then what. they are not gonna fix them forever.