To Warm Up or Not to Warm Up

[James Burleigh]

Disclaimer: I ran a basic search on "warm up" and did not find anything dedicated to this topic, so I'm gonna take a chance with a new thread....

In JimLor's Dropped it Again thread, Tyrone Wildman makes the following statement:

"'Warm Up?' Let it 'Warm Up' when U are riding it, just don't go over 3 grand till the first temp bar lites up. My friend , and best tech writer I've known, Gordon Jennings, agreed w/me that a warm up on a street bike is one of the worse things that U can do to your bike. All that rich mixture and little load on rings to help them seal, and it's hard on the plugs too." [Posted
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s=&showtopic=16167&view=findpost&p=196247here
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s=&showtopic=16167&view=findpost&p=196247.]

Every morning after getting suited up and bolting on my helmet, I warm the Blue Rocketship up in the driveway for about 5 minutes while I go into the house to run hot water over my hands before putting my gloves on (fingers get cold in that garage suiting up in the morning!).

Like everyone else, I want to do right by my bike, and conserve fuel and money. So is there general agreement around Tyrone's position about not warming up the bike, or is this indeed a NEPRT?

While pumping gas as a high school kid, I worked for a German VW mechanic who strongly held the same position: Warm it up while driving it!

Jb

P.S. Coming home I'm fairly close to the freeway. Regardless of the response to the above general question, don't I want the bike "warmed up" before I throttle the chicken going onto the freeway?

 

[slapnpop]

I don't think I'd take much second hand technical advice from a person who's too lazy to type out the word "you".

That being said, every technical source I've ever seen discuss the subject says to warm up any engine, so that all the internal parts come up to temp and expand to proper tolerances. Not sure if that's the case or not.

 

[warsw]

That being said, every technical source I've ever seen discuss the subject says to warm up any engine, so that all the internal parts come up to temp and expand to proper tolerances. Not sure if that's the case or not.

+1

I have always been taught that you should always warm up a motor before you run it very hard. I believe that this holds true to all the moving parts (Gear box, rear end, etc.) I believe that you need to let the internal parts come up to temp and expand to proper tolerances and let the oil and grease warm up so it can more easily do it's job.

What I usually do is let the bike run while I am putting on my helmet and gloves. This gets oil moving through the motor and starts the warming process. I then head down the road running the bike really easy until it is up to temp (three bars). If I am in a place where I will need to get going from the start I then let the bike warm up until I see the temp start to climb on the gauge and then try to take it as easy as I can until everything is up to temp. Just my .02

 

[S76]

Here's the deal as best I can tell.

If you ask:

Should I tighten up the rear axle bolt nut

Should I refill the oil after draining

Should I torque the head bolts

Should I replace the air filter if it has holes

You will get a bunch of folks to give you specific correct answers.

If you ask:

Should I warm up the engine

Should I use Synthetic oil

Should I use XYZ tires

Should I change the oil at 3000 miles

You will get a wide spectrum of answers, because, It Just Doesn't Matter.

I just let the bike run long enough to get my gloves and helmet on and off we go, slowly, until it's up to temp. If I was starting out 500 feet from a highway that was my intended route I would let it run longer before going. But I have never heard of an engine failure, "Because the guy didn't let it warm up."

Today's motorcycle engines are so high tech and todays oils are so good it's pretty hard to hurt them. I wish I could find a recent article where some dudes drained the water out of a Kawasaki and pinned the throttle to see how long it would go. After 15 minutes they gave up. So they drained all the oil and put back in 1 quart. Ran it again and after a while the exhaust got so hot the plastic caught on fire. The next day after it cooled they reserviced the fluids and the bike ran fine. These things are tough!

YMMV

 

[radman]

I get 1 bar before moving out. My ride cycle from home is almost perfect, the roads I start on are 45-50 mph for several miles before any high speed stuff comes up. In any case,it's oil temp thats most important, and one should wait for 5 miles to pass after 2 bars (05) before really cranking on the motor, as in steady 70-80 mph stuff. In reference to S76's claim of no engine damage from hard running cold, I have seen it, used to see it often, before injection. Small block Chevs drive the oil pump via a shaft connected to the distributor driven gear, a roll pin holds this in place. Have seen them shear when revving on cold oil, especially when the owner got pissed on a start of a flooded engine and cranked up the r's once it fired. Also seen oil filter seals blow the same way, as well as actual filter can failure, at the seam, because of this. Granted, it was in very cold weather, but it shows that oil just doesn't like moving till it's up to temp and somewhat less viscous than when cold. Todays oil has reduced the problem, but hasn't eliminated it altogether. Still smart to get oil up to running temps before calling Scottie for more power. In my unschooled opinion, of course. Try this-cold 20-40 in a jar, whip it with a egg beater, try it again with the oil at 200 degrees, see which resists the motion more.

 

[otrfjr]

Coming from a bike with carbs, I always "warm up" enough so that the bike can idle on its own without help from the choke (on an fi bike, idling near specs--unless starting after having run it & the oil has conserved the energy transmitted to it, i.e., warmer than the coolant thermostat suggests. Then nothing above X rpm (fill in your own value as you value your ride: I use 3k) until the needle/bar is in the "normal" operating temperature range. Oil temp IS the issue along with differential expansion rates for the metal in the rings and the metal of the cylinder walls (and that's huge: if your rings expand "faster" than the cylinder walls--and that's the case in the inner workings of the fjr's internal combustion engine--that's bad juju). It's all about the physics. Yeah, so, excessive idling can foul the plugs if you're running rich. On an FI bike, that's madness & the person who suggests as much should consult King George III's favorite conversation partners--and I'm not suggesting that person would get a woody. Splinters, perhaps...

I get 1 bar before moving out. My ride cycle from home is almost perfect, the roads I start on are 45-50 mph for several miles before any high speed stuff comes up. In any case,it's oil temp thats most important, and one should wait for 5 miles to pass after 2 bars (05) before really cranking on the motor, as in steady 70-80 mph stuff. In reference to S76's claim of no engine damage from hard running cold, I have seen it, used to see it often, before injection. Small block Chevs drive the oil pump via a shaft connected to the distributor driven gear, a roll pin holds this in place. Have seen them shear when revving on cold oil, especially when the owner got pissed on a start of a flooded engine and cranked up the r's once it fired. Also seen oil filter seals blow the same way, as well as actual filter can failure, at the seam, because of this. Granted, it was in very cold weather, but it shows that oil just doesn't like moving till it's up to temp and somewhat less viscous than when cold. Todays oil has reduced the problem, but hasn't eliminated it altogether. Still smart to get oil up to running temps before calling Scottie for more power. In my unschooled opinion, of course. Try this-cold 20-40 in a jar, whip it with a egg beater, try it again with the oil at 200 degrees, see which resists the motion more.

 

[v65]

Kevin Cameron wrote an article on this in Cycle World several years ago. IIRC his conclusions were:

1) Starting an engine is the worst thing you can do to it

2) Letting the engine warm up is worse for it than just running.

3) In a modern engine it is going to matter much one way or the other.

I suspect that this is something that has changed as oils have developed. Unfortunately I cannot remember his exact reasoning, but I believe the idea was that, when cold, the combustion mixture is not completely burned. The leftovers from the combustion process or more harmful for the engine than the mechanical wear from insufficiently warmed up parts/lubricants.

Of course you probably don't want to leave your garage in 30 degree weather with a freshly started bike and try to hit the rev limiter either.

Of course I read this article with great enthusiasm, and then kept right on warming up my vehicles (although a lot less than I used to)

 

[airboss]

Have to agree with rad on this one rev's on a cold engine, Bad. All the trucks my company runs have oil pressure gauges, cold engines tend to run oil pressures at 50-60 lbs at idle, put some rev's on that and the pressure will climb to 80-100lbs. Warm that same engine and the pressure will drop to 15-20lbs at idle and run 40-50 lbs with the revs on it. Pushing cold oil tru and engine just can't be good for the seals and oil lines.

I think I'll keep on warming up.

Now if the weather would just coopererate, I could actully put this in pratice and go for a ride. <_<

 

[Rickster]

I warm up. I'm not a chemical engineer -- so FWIW (use google.... i do.)

nitric acid forms in the combustion chamber due to moisture/condensation.

(Oil doesn't only lubricate -- it also traps acids, and provides cooling.)

Warming up (especially during the colder months) allows the oil to properly trap the acids formed during combusion prior to higher forces on the bearing areas. This will reduce acid pitting in bearing areas.

so-- that's what i do.

 

[Toecutter]

If I have time, I'll warm it up to get the revs down before taking off. If not, I put it in gear, start, idle off and take it easy until it gets up to temp. No science, YMMV

 

[HaulinAshe]

I lack a mechanical engineering degree. But I'll make you this bet...

Bring me 10 motorcycles with >50k on them, from a mixture of owners who both warm up and who don't. And I'll identify with better than 90% accuracy, using a compression gauge, which ones care enough about their bike to change the oil and allow it to warm up before twisting hard. The two habits usually go hand-in-hand. (Invite RADMAN to the party and he'll get the other 10%)

My itty biddy no-car-workshop (aka garage) has heat/AC. Cherie and others have always lived there. So a lot depends on if your bike sleeps in a controlled environment or au naturel. If you are starting out at 70F then the oil doesn't need as much warmup time.

However, any racer will tell you not to push a performance engine until all the metal has reached mean operating temperature. That's what the machining tolerances were designed around. There is a lot of science that goes into fitting parts of different metallurgy for optimum fit at "temp-X".

The garage door opens, Cherie wakes up and puts patiently, drinking her coffee while I strap the helmet, put on gloves and back her into position.



PS The neighbors LOVE my exit.

 

[madmike2]

I'm fortunate on 2 fronts. 1.) I don't live in freezing temperatures so when I start my bike its at least 35-40 degrees in the Winter. 2.) When I start and leave from home or work, I have about 2 miles of low speed (25-35 mph) roads to allow the engine to warm and the differential to come somewhat up to temp.

I usually get most of my riding apparel on then thumb the starter while I'm putting on my helmet and gloves. The temp gauge is then at 1 bar and climbing so I can motor away while the warmup cycle finishes. I DON'T normally (though it has happened if someone walks up to talk) let it go to 3 bars before I drive away.

 

[BrunDog]

Warm up the motor for half a minute or so. Then take it easy until the temp comes up. I guarantee it.

-BD

 

[twowheelnut]

Fire it up, back it outta the garage, fiddle with the door opener to get the door to closed, drop the GDO into my pocket and clunk it into first and ease outta the drive and neighbor hood. It's 25 mph zones all the way to the in'erstate so I'm at two bars by then anywho. Never did warm up my vehicles for the sake of warming them - even back home in the winter months. Never a problem. Brake pads and oil filters on the other hand...

 

[FJRski]

+1 Thirty (30) seconds to warm slightly, and keep the revs below 3500 rpm till you see a few bars come up.

IMHO- - I can't speak from experience on cycle engines, but I put 100+ thousand on all my cars, mixed driving, I'm not the kindest operator, and I never warm up an engine. Won't tolerate a car that leaks or burns oil. Change oil regularly every 5,000 miles (probably too often, one of my Chem. profs held several motor oil patents, the 3000 mile myth persists). Drive slowly after starting, no hard acceleration, till they warm up, let the pressure peak. All warming up does is waste gas, and that's my 2 cents.

 

[HaulinAshe]

I just realized that there may be great disparity between some definitions of warm-up and what I think of. I don't endorse sitting around while the engine comes to "x-bars". I do endorse giving a very cold engine some extra time to warm-up before running down the road and pushing cold air through the system.

And it seems most everyone agrees on keeping the R's down until operating temp is reached.

 

[boogahboogah]

Check tire pressures

Warm weather - wait 30 seconds, ride gently (3500 rpm ceiling) until I hit 2 bars

Cold weather - wait 2 minutes, ride gently (3500 rpm ceiling) until I hit 2 bars

Baby never seems to want to go fast until she's warm.....

 

[tyronewildman]

I don't think I'd take much second hand technical advice from a person who's too lazy to type out the word "you".
That being said, every technical source I've ever seen discuss the subject says to warm up any engine, so that all the internal parts come up to temp and expand to proper tolerances. Not sure if that's the case or not.

Slapnpop, Lets get my title correct if U please, as I am a MMI Certified Technical Person. On the other hand sir, U are correct in calling me "Lazy" but I prefer to think of myself as just being efficient.

Back to the Warm Up discussion. So far in this thread there have been 2 professional technical writers mentioned and they were Gordon Jennings and Kevin Cameron and they both advocate "ride it instantly after starting & keep RPMs low till it's warmed up". On the other hand, till a few years ago, if U rode a "Big Twin" (These 2 words are copy writed by H-D & refer to their large motors) U'd better let it warm up before riding because of different expansion rates of the cylinders and the crank cases, or U'd have a leaking cylinder base gasket.

By the way, what's the point of this Pointless Recurring Thread?

Later,,, De

 

[C&C]

I think this thread lacks a mutually accepted definition of warmup; there seems to be many variations mentioned.

Yamaha has a built in rev acceleration reducer until the engine reaches some sort of minimum warmup so you probably can't hurt it too much by slowly easing away as soon as you start up. I generally wheel the bike outside (she lives in the garage), fire her up, finish putting on my gear (helmet and gloves) and ease out until I know I have at least a little heat in the oil.