Yeah, I rode the OP's bike pre-repair, and it felt like there just wasn't any power above 5,000 RPM or so.
Torque loss after service.
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Hotboot
Well-known member
Thanks audiowize, I think I'm missing some low end and it runs great up high. I'm guilty of not riding the feej...damn BMW RS has me hooked but will spend some quality FJR time on that one soon.
If that ^ is the case, you may have the timing off still, but too far "advanced" (his was too far retarded). The symptoms are exactly opposite
Hotboot
Well-known member
Too far retarded is a great description of my last Yamaha service team, they scratched pristine tupperware and left a fuel hose loose.....I should always do my own work no matter how busy my scdule.
Freedom Yamaha in Lewisville, Texas should be avoided at all costs.
Freedom Yamaha in Lewisville, Texas should be avoided at all costs.
hppants
Well-known member
It's been 5 days since the O/P has updated this thread. I'm going to be presumptuous and assume that he hasn't heard from the dealer yet regarding their mistake. If my assumption is correct, regardless of the outcome, this must be a huge disappointment for him. In today's world of instant information, I cannot imagine why it would take any business 5 days to resolve this issue. The dealer must understand that his reputation is in question here. He (or she) admits knowledge of this story posted on the internet.
It's cut and dry - show the photos to the mechanic in question. Verify that he actually opened the engine and that it is plausible that he (or she) made a mistake, contact your customer, return his money in full, and then offer something (anything really) as a gesture of good will. That should have taken all of about 30 minutes. 5 days is completely unacceptable.
Now maybe my assumption is incorrect. Maybe this has been resolved and we just haven't been informed. Maybe, but I doubt it. Hell - if I were the dealer, and that were true, I'd create an account here just to update this thread and satisfy forum trolls like myself. I'd prepare a humbling apologetic post that would score points on a Pulitzer Price committee. This would be MY business on the line.
I can guarantee you that when the O/P and/or other customers are considering purchasing a new motorcycle, the sales people at that dealership stay attached to them like a magnet.
It's cut and dry - show the photos to the mechanic in question. Verify that he actually opened the engine and that it is plausible that he (or she) made a mistake, contact your customer, return his money in full, and then offer something (anything really) as a gesture of good will. That should have taken all of about 30 minutes. 5 days is completely unacceptable.
Now maybe my assumption is incorrect. Maybe this has been resolved and we just haven't been informed. Maybe, but I doubt it. Hell - if I were the dealer, and that were true, I'd create an account here just to update this thread and satisfy forum trolls like myself. I'd prepare a humbling apologetic post that would score points on a Pulitzer Price committee. This would be MY business on the line.
I can guarantee you that when the O/P and/or other customers are considering purchasing a new motorcycle, the sales people at that dealership stay attached to them like a magnet.
ionbeam
2 FUN
Mention the internet to a dealer, go ahead, I dare you. Almost every dealer I've mentioned the internet to rolls their eyes, speaks of the great evil internet with disdain, will tell you the internet has ZERO credibility and will think a lot less of you if you actually *believe* anything you read there. Expect the dealer to stop working with you and treat you like a pariah if you repeat or expound anything you gleaned from the internet. While it may not be true of every dealer, almost every one that I have observed (including watching customers tell a service manager, "I read it on the internet....") discount all internet content as useless and shows the customer is ignorant. I knew one dealership in Manchester NH that wouldn't shut down if you mentioned the internet -- but his dealership got shut down. I know one dealer in Hudson NH that will still listen if you mention the internet.
On the other hand, picture yourself as a service manager and someone comes in BS because of Spider problems. Spiders? You read about that on the internet, right? Remember that "spider" is a term made up here on the Forum to refer to the grounding couplers on the Gen II wiring harness. Go to a service manager and tell him your FJR is a Ticker and demand he fixes it. Remember that "ticker" is a term made up here on the Forum referring to the valve stems rattling in the stem guides. Tell a service manager that when he does a valve check you want him to give your cooling system a ********. Remember that this is a term made up here on the Forum for a coolant change procedure.
Tell a dealer that your TPS needs to be changed because some yahoo on the internet has pictures that shows one that is worn out and failed. The CCT needs to be changed because some yahoo says it killed his engine and he has pictures of the CCT guts to show what went wrong. You want your wiring harness changed because a couple of yahoos in NH proved to a NHTSA agent that the grounding system causes safety related failures. Your ECU has to be changed because a few guys had driveability problems in the mountains, you read about it on the internet. Your meter assembly needs to be replaced because a few guys noticed that the instantaneous gas mileage readout seems to be stuck, you read about it on the internet. The ECU should be changed in your '16 because of error messages, it's a real problem, you read about it on the internet.
If the OP's dealer didn't believe they caused a driveability problem due to an error on their part, investigated themselves and didn't find an issue, rechecked their work and didn't find a problem may be slow to accept that they caused or created a problem no matter the "proof" provided by the customer. This kind of closed minded, self-centered service department is usually associated with a similar minded top-down business philosophy. The market will generally adjust this kind of business to the level where they belong...
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HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Any dealer that doesn't take the Internet seriously has serious problems. 15, 20 years ago, I could see laughing it off, but not now. Hell, tons of dealers use the internet to boost their business. Not just MC dealers, but cars, RVs, trucks, parts, you name it. EVERYONE is on the internet, and it is powerful...as stupid as that seems to me.
Yeah, there is sone total BS on the internet, just like everywhere else. However, evidence is evidence, and if it is not given a proper vetting to be sure it is wrong or right, the dealer is doing himself a disservice. Hell, from the looks of it, this thread could teach the tech and service manager a few things.
As it stands, I don't give a **** what they did back in 2005. They did their job. Now, I wouldn't walk I there to take a piss, and that won't change until they make it right. That's a shame really, because sometime in the past, they must have had it together.
Back in the day, 'word of mouth' could break businesses. What happens when over a thousand Yamaha owners get this and spread it?
Yeah, there is sone total BS on the internet, just like everywhere else. However, evidence is evidence, and if it is not given a proper vetting to be sure it is wrong or right, the dealer is doing himself a disservice. Hell, from the looks of it, this thread could teach the tech and service manager a few things.
As it stands, I don't give a **** what they did back in 2005. They did their job. Now, I wouldn't walk I there to take a piss, and that won't change until they make it right. That's a shame really, because sometime in the past, they must have had it together.
Back in the day, 'word of mouth' could break businesses. What happens when over a thousand Yamaha owners get this and spread it?
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It's interesting that Audiowise has described the power loss at above 5k RPM. To me it was low - mid rpm (2.5 - 6.5k) that the loss was most notable. Above 7 came on quite strong.
Passing on a two lane, especially uphill, required a downshift, or two, to get the necessary acceleration, whereas prior to the service and now that Paul helped me sort it out, a simple roll on of throttle in top gear normally gets the job done.
I have not, as yet, heard back from the dealer. I talked with him on the 6th and left a voice-mail on the 9th. Will call again when I can find time and will report back when there is something to report.
Passing on a two lane, especially uphill, required a downshift, or two, to get the necessary acceleration, whereas prior to the service and now that Paul helped me sort it out, a simple roll on of throttle in top gear normally gets the job done.
I have not, as yet, heard back from the dealer. I talked with him on the 6th and left a voice-mail on the 9th. Will call again when I can find time and will report back when there is something to report.
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wheatonFJR
...
Truth!Mention the internet to a dealer, go ahead, I dare you. Almost every dealer I've mentioned the internet to rolls their eyes, speaks of the great evil internet with disdain, will tell you the internet has ZERO credibility and will think a lot less of you if you actually *believe* anything you read there. Expect the dealer to stop working with you and treat you like a pariah if you repeat or expound anything you gleaned from the internet. While it may not be true of every dealer, almost every one that I have observed (including watching customers tell a service manager, "I read it on the internet....") discount all internet content as useless and shows the customer is ignorant. I knew one dealership in Manchester NH that wouldn't shut down if you mentioned the internet -- but his dealership got shut down. I know one dealer in Hudson NH that will still listen if you mention the internet.
On the other hand, picture yourself as a service manager and someone comes in BS because of Spider problems. Spiders? You read about that on the internet, right? Remember that "spider" is a term made up here on the Forum to refer to the grounding couplers on the Gen II wiring harness. Go to a service manager and tell him your FJR is a Ticker and demand he fixes it. Remember that "ticker" is a term made up here on the Forum referring to the valve stems rattling in the stem guides. Tell a service manager that when he does a valve check you want him to give your cooling system a ********. Remember that this is a term made up here on the Forum for a coolant change procedure.
Tell a dealer that your TPS needs to be changed because some yahoo on the internet has pictures that shows one that is worn out and failed. The CCT needs to be changed because some yahoo says it killed his engine and he has pictures of the CCT guts to show what went wrong. You want your wiring harness changed because a couple of yahoos in NH proved to a NHTSA agent that the grounding system causes safety related failures. Your ECU has to be changed because a few guys had driveability problems in the mountains, you read about it on the internet. Your meter assembly needs to be replaced because a few guys noticed that the instantaneous gas mileage readout seems to be stuck, you read about it on the internet. The ECU should be changed in your '16 because of error messages, it's a real problem, you read about it on the internet.
If the OP's dealer didn't believe they caused a driveability problem due to an error on their part, investigated themselves and didn't find an issue, rechecked their work and didn't find a problem may be slow to accept that they caused or created a problem no matter the "proof" provided by the customer. This kind of closed minded, self-centered service department is usually associated with a similar minded top-down business philosophy. The market will generally adjust this kind of business to the level where they belong...
As has been mentioned previously, the symptom will vary depending on which way the timing is off.
When the timing is too far advanced it will result in poor low RPM performance, but good power at high rpm.
When the timing is too far retarded the engine will run great at low rpm but will run out of steam as the rpms rise.
Don't do it!
Again, don't do that. In fact, if you were to do that without prior-approval from forum management--it would be a violation of forum terms. It also would probably be figured out fairly quickly and dealt with severely.
I know, because it's happened a small number of time over the forum's history and went fairly badly for the commercial interest that didn't get permission first.
Edit: I didn't realize what dealer it was. Since I do now, I can say quite comfortably that DVP doesn't just ignore the Internetz, would never register to refute things, and is actually the original host to the first TechWest over a decade ago. I believe they deal with customers reasonably.
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hppants
Well-known member
Edit - in deference to Iggy's comment above, I apologize for making an assumption. I do realize that my comment is fanning the flames. Admittedly, this issue (in general) is personal to me. Integrity, that is.
None the less, I agreed to the forum rules, and apologize.
None the less, I agreed to the forum rules, and apologize.
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Whoa. That's either really funny that missed an emoticon or keyboard commando laughable...
Good to hear.
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Well after an interminable wait, many voice mails, etc. I was finally contacted, a couple weeks ago, by Mike the service manager and discussed, in depth, everything that was and wasn't done correctly.
He agreed that there should be a complete refund of charges on the recheck of the cam timing and we settled on an additional refund of 1/2 of the labor charge on the initial service.
This would be in the form of a store credit and was to be submitted to the owner for approval. Have not heard whether it was approved, but am assuming so. Will see next time I stop in.
He agreed that there should be a complete refund of charges on the recheck of the cam timing and we settled on an additional refund of 1/2 of the labor charge on the initial service.
This would be in the form of a store credit and was to be submitted to the owner for approval. Have not heard whether it was approved, but am assuming so. Will see next time I stop in.
hppants
Well-known member
Very good to read this.
escapefjrtist
Searching for Dry Roads
Hope it works out for you Jim, you've certainly waited long enough for resolution.
--G
--G
Panman
Well-known member
This was a post I hadn't read for some odd reason, first off Jim sorry that it happened to you and 2nd we are lucky here in the NW that we have a bunch of good hands to help you sort things out.
And to the FJR Forum in general, all of the folks here offering good advice and knowledge. Anyone who followed this could gain good info on how to go about working with the cams.
Thank you all.
And to the FJR Forum in general, all of the folks here offering good advice and knowledge. Anyone who followed this could gain good info on how to go about working with the cams.
Thank you all.
jammess
Well-known member
So you get a store credit? That means you get to go back to that dealer and help help him sell some inventory? Hmmmmm.....well guess it's better than nothing. I got to say, as a new (2010) FJR owner I am beginning to see how competent dealer support might definitely be an issue. I don't know of a single dealer in my area that I would trust anywhere near my bike. Not that it is the dealer's fault mind you, it's just that these shops here abouts just don't sell FJR's much at all and are completely unfamiliar with them. It's therefore a really good thing Yamaha bikes are known for great reliability or one might be kind of SOL. Good thing I'm capable and a REALLY good thing we have this great forum.
Hey, I maybe spoke too soon. I think I've found a really good Yamaha dealer in my neck of the woods at Cottage Grove, OR which is about 25 miles south of Eugene on I5. They sell and service the FJR and even have a factory certified BMW mechanic on staff that has a good reputation among the beemer types in the area so this is a good thing.
They don't sell BMW which is OK and maybe even a plus as in more reasonable shop rates.
Hey, I maybe spoke too soon. I think I've found a really good Yamaha dealer in my neck of the woods at Cottage Grove, OR which is about 25 miles south of Eugene on I5. They sell and service the FJR and even have a factory certified BMW mechanic on staff that has a good reputation among the beemer types in the area so this is a good thing.
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