Trying to find my Pace

[Goodman4]

I’ve been looking forward to my trip on the FJR this coming weekend to the Ozarks in NW Arkansas for the twisty roads, but also getting to ride with my nephew for the first time with him on a decent bike. We rode once In MO and AR with him on his street equipped dirt bike, but now that he has a Super Tenere it will be a new ball game. I’ve been sending him some riding safety info to read and I was enlightened again by “The Pace” and “The Pace 2.0” even though this is probably the 10th time I’ve read them.

What I’ve been thinking about is this – My riding has gotten more dangerous in some areas indirectly proportional to my improved skill. I know I am better able to handle a situation that may arise with my improved riding. But if a surprise happens on a corner there is a good chance I’ll be going faster than I used to when I wasn’t as confident. I don’t hang way off like I learned in Lee Parks Total Control training, but I still shift my weight and setup the corner and find I have to be going pretty fast to get the feel of the lean I’m desiring.

The comment that stuck out to me in the Pace article this time is that you shouldn’t hang off much because you’ll have to be going too fast to make it fun for you. That concept is what I’ve been fighting and it was good to put some expert advice with my internal debate. As we get faster bikes and improve our skills, we have to ride harder to get the feeling of pushing our limit and end up taking more chances than we used to. At least I do.

I got a goldwing over a year ago and I thought riding the wing would be like when I used to ride the VTX where it required me learning a totally different level of cornering. But the wing handles much like the FJR in my opinion and I don’t have to corner differently at all. I’m not a fast rider nor do I take huge risks by any means and many of you would blow me away on the twisties. But I feel that if I don’t push the rpm’s of the FJR above 4000, I’m not enjoying the bike. I still have to get some thrill from the rush of pushing the limit on the corners.

I don’t want to have to have a wreck to move my adrenalin meter down a notch, if you can relate to that. But I still want to have fun riding and part (maybe most) of the fun for me is the lean on the corners. Do any of you struggle with that? I guess I could just slow way down and ride to enjoy the scenery. I could go back to a cruiser and just putt through the mountains and enjoy that. That wouldn’t be all bad and sometimes I think I should start trying to retrain myself, but I’m not ready for that.

I’ve thought about doing more track days and even getting a track bike (I did one track day at Barber on the FJR) but I think I’d be more likely to get hurt doing that than the way I ride now on the street. And if the goal of riding is for enjoyment like The Pace says, I don’t want to raise my level up to where I’ve got to ride even faster to get the rush. My Lee Parks instructor said he won’t ride a bike on the street anymore because he can’t do it safely and enjoy it. I hate that. I love riding and want to keep loving it. I want to get a rush from riding at maybe 70% of my abilities and not push past that. I'm having trouble dialing that in, though.

Thoughts? How do you find your pace that balances fun and safety?

 

[steveoreno]

I usually have my wife on the back who starts squeezing my ribs when I start "exceeding her sense of pace."

 

[RossKean]

In my opinion, pushing your limits is for the track, not the street. I started riding too late in life to hone the fine skills really needed to be one who could blow by you on the twisties but I'm OK with that. Even when a corner is well within my skillset to take at 2x the posted speed, I am not generally inclined to push it quite that far. You never know what's around the bend - ***** driver crossing the yellow, Bambi in the road, hay baler, gravel or a pile of animal droppings. I try to not outride further than I can see.

There are old riders and there are bold riders but not many old, bold riders. Hope you can make a decision that allows you to get the "rush" safely!

 

[mcatrophy]

RossKean is right.

Rule Number 1: You should always be able to stop safely within the distance you can see to be clear.

I know "rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise", but when your life (and possibly the life of someone who is following you) may depend on this one, observe it.

If you can't get your fun within this constraint you're in the wrong game.

Ps. IMHO, "The Pace" was designed for cruisers, not proper motorcycles.

 

[BkerChuck]

I’ve been looking forward to my trip on the FJR this coming weekend to the Ozarks in NW Arkansas for the twisty roads, but also getting to ride with my nephew for the first time with him on a decent bike. We rode once In MO and AR with him on his street equipped dirt bike, but now that he has a Super Tenere it will be a new ball game. I’ve been sending him some riding safety info to read and I was enlightened again by “The Pace” and “The Pace 2.0” even though this is probably the 10th time I’ve read them.

What I’ve been thinking about is this – My riding has gotten more dangerous in some areas indirectly proportional to my improved skill. I know I am better able to handle a situation that may arise with my improved riding. But if a surprise happens on a corner there is a good chance I’ll be going faster than I used to when I wasn’t as confident. I don’t hang way off like I learned in Lee Parks Total Control training, but I still shift my weight and setup the corner and find I have to be going pretty fast to get the feel of the lean I’m desiring.

The comment that stuck out to me in the Pace article this time is that you shouldn’t hang off much because you’ll have to be going too fast to make it fun for you. That concept is what I’ve been fighting and it was good to put some expert advice with my internal debate. As we get faster bikes and improve our skills, we have to ride harder to get the feeling of pushing our limit and end up taking more chances than we used to. At least I do.

I got a goldwing over a year ago and I thought riding the wing would be like when I used to ride the VTX where it required me learning a totally different level of cornering. But the wing handles much like the FJR in my opinion and I don’t have to corner differently at all. I’m not a fast rider nor do I take huge risks by any means and many of you would blow me away on the twisties. But I feel that if I don’t push the rpm’s of the FJR above 4000, I’m not enjoying the bike. I still have to get some thrill from the rush of pushing the limit on the corners.

I don’t want to have to have a wreck to move my adrenalin meter down a notch, if you can relate to that. But I still want to have fun riding and part (maybe most) of the fun for me is the lean on the corners. Do any of you struggle with that? I guess I could just slow way down and ride to enjoy the scenery. I could go back to a cruiser and just putt through the mountains and enjoy that. That wouldn’t be all bad and sometimes I think I should start trying to retrain myself, but I’m not ready for that.

I’ve thought about doing more track days and even getting a track bike (I did one track day at Barber on the FJR) but I think I’d be more likely to get hurt doing that than the way I ride now on the street. And if the goal of riding is for enjoyment like The Pace says, I don’t want to raise my level up to where I’ve got to ride even faster to get the rush. My Lee Parks instructor said he won’t ride a bike on the street anymore because he can’t do it safely and enjoy it. I hate that. I love riding and want to keep loving it. I want to get a rush from riding at maybe 70% of my abilities and not push past that. I'm having trouble dialing that in, though.

Thoughts? How do you find your pace that balances fun and safety?

You mention thinking you'd be more likely to get hurt doing a track day or having a track only bike. I find that statement a little misguided. Race tracks have trained staff and usually an ambulance or medical staff nearby during any event. You certainly don't have that on the street! They require tech inspections and do track maintanance on the track surfaces. Hell where I live you're lucky if they clean up an oil spill on a busy road!

I doubt that I even ride at what I believe to be 50% of my ability on a public road. I've hit one deer already and just watched my wife wreck her bike 3 weeks ago when she came around a corner of a road we ride every day and she hit some spilled oil. I know she wasn't riding at even a small percentage of her capabilities. Accidents happen when you ride on public streets. Inattentive drivers, wildlife, debris in the road. The only thing we can do is where proper gear, pay attention, stay sober when riding, and be aware the road is not the track.

 

[hppants]

Crashing definitely slows a rider down, but time tends to heal wounds. It's been 4 years since my off, and if I'm being honest, my riding has gotten progressively more aggressive over the past year. I need to check myself and intend to do so. Like the OP, my "need" is in the 3rd dimension - I really like to lean the bike over. On familiar roads, I get complacent and probably push it past where I should. I'd like to get to a point where I pick my times - I may ride more conservatively toward a favorite twisty road, and when I get to it, if conditions are favorable, let it rip a little while. It works for a while, but toward the afternoon, I tend to increase the speed - craving the adrenaline...

I do hedge my bets. Lane position is critical and I'm really stubborn about that. Lights on bright. Fork mounted lights aimed to the oncoming windshield (sorry if you don't like it, but flashing your lights at me is taken as a compliment). Weaving at them if I get a bad feeling. Hand signals in addition to turn signals at times. Hold the clutch in gear at the stop light, watch the mirrors, and have an escape plan. High-vis gear. Avoid riding at night and in city traffic like the plague. NO booze (1 beer for an hour lunch, but only 1). Constantly looking through the curve to the vanishing point. Scan the apex quickly on approach, looking for a change in color (oil?) or texture (gravel?). Etc. Etc. Etc.

Does that decrease my odds or just make me feel better?

I've often asked myself if I was forced to buy a 125 cc UJM, and that was all I could ride, would I continue to ride? IOW - is aggressive riding at times a deal breaker?

I've thought about it - and I'm still thinking.

 

[BanjoBoy]

TLR

Just relax, be smooth, find yer "flow" 'n the pace will come.

Remember; slow into a corner and fast out is better than fast into a corner dead out! These are werds I live by whilst sport touring on unfamiliar roads.

 

[fjrchooser]

I do my really aggressive riding on the water using a wetbike. A highside on it allows me time to tuck in, grab my glasses and a deep breath before impact and I always see it coming. I consider it my trackless track day.

Maybe you should seek some other outlet to satisfy your crazy. A track has a lot less obstacles that'll bring you to an abrupt stop , keeps you from ruining your everyday ride if you purchase a track bike and you can increase the protective gear level without too much inconvenience other than monetary.

Or you could move to a lake and get a wetbike. The streets really not the place to test your limits.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

First, good topic, good discussion.

You said, "But I feel that if I don't push the RPMs of the FJR above 4000, I'm not enjoying the bike."

Is that because of what you hear from the experts? Is that because you feel you are not using the full potential of a very powerful motorcycle? Or, do you truly get all of your kicks by hearing the snarl of the motor and feeling The Lean?

If it is either of the first two, let that foolishness go. It sounds like you have had more training and done more reading than 99.9% of the "Bikers" on the road. Judging by your very modest RRs you can ride. (I get chills thinking of you riding the Moki Dugway on a GoldWing, with your wife on the back! BadASS!)

You have received some excellent advice above from riders much better than myself. I can only add this: Riding a motorcycle is supposed to be fun. Ride it like YOU want to ride. Not to impress your friends, not to impress the guys on the sport bikes at the last overlook that only had 5K miles on their bikes, not to feel like you are "one of the cool kids". Ride the motorcycle to make yourself happy.

I personally wonder if my FJR thinks there are several different folks riding it. The wonderful thing about the FJR is its versatility, its ability to function and bring happiness at any "pace". I can imitate the best Harley cruiser out there or I can (try to) imitate Valentino Rossi on test day. You can also.

 

[Big Sky]

Goodman4, you raise many interesting points and questions. Others have offered enlightened points of view. I see you have just entered your fifth decade, which means you have obviously developed some survival instincts. Before coming to the FJR, I rode a CB1100XX Superblackbird, which is more powerful and capable in many respects than our FJRs. Two-up and loaded, I would occasionally touch down pavement feelers. My wife and I toured 24,000 miles on it but an arthritic neck and the ergos made me rethink. It is easier to drag pegs on the the FJR and I have done so many times, but increasingly less. Do I not crave the adrenalin as much? As I have matured (about 8 years older than you), I appreciate that my body doesn't do what it once did. Reactions are a touch slower. Not necessarily consciously or intentionally, I have slowed down. Maybe it's "been there, done that." Maybe it's taking the time to see more, appreciate more. Maybe it's a more acute sense of mortality and self preservation. I certainly want to preserve my passenger/wife of 30-years (and lover for 35). Do I still enjoy the corners as much? You bet! Do I take some calculated risks? Sure. Are we prepared to deal with the consequences of a mistake, or riding beyond our line of sight? As much as can be, I suppose. At least we understand the consequences. For me, when the pavement feeler makes contact, it is a loud voice that tells me, "Fast enough! Now slow down a little!"

Beyond all that, practice, practice, practice! One of my favorite drills is to "turn within the turn" - take mock evasive moves while tipped in. If there is no margin for evasion and maneuver, you are too fast.

A great mentor once told me, "Ride to stay alive, certainly for you, but more for your children, your spouse, your siblings, your parents." Maybe it would be good for all of us if we rode as though we always had a passenger aboard that we love.

 

[glory racing]

Riding a motorcycle is dangerous...Period. Wear protective gear and ride smart is about all one can really do. I believe you simply cannot 'worry' about all of the unknowns we may encounter when riding. Ride smart means different things to different people. As long as you are riding within your abilities, are comfortable with your pace for the environment and enjoying the ride...you are doing it right.

So get out and enjoy your ride.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Concentrate on being smooth....the speed is irrevelant and will take care of itself.

 

[glory racing]

Concentrate on being smooth....the speed is irrevelant and will take care of itself.

Many times I concentrate and ride to be ridiculously smooth rather than just rippin through a section. Quite enjoyable and satisfies the need for speed. Could be a good alternative for you...well...everyone.

 

[Old Guy]

Concentrate on being smooth....the speed is irrevelant and will take care of itself.

Simple enough. If you're trying to go fast, you'll likely make mistakes that'll just slow you down.

If you've taken the Lee Parks class there's no point in going through all the techniques again here; you know how to turn. But if you're having to hang off on a crooked road, you're pushing too danged hard.

In Arkansas, watch for gravel in the corners, particularly the right-hand corners. People in longer vehicles will drop a wheel onto the shoulders and sometimes bring gravel back onto the road.

Don't apex too early. A later apex will let you see through the corner better and give you more options for selecting a new line should you meet my cousin Earl* coming at you with two monster mudders in your lane.

There are lots of blind corners around here with things like hidden driveways just past them. Go slow enough to react if you encounter my cousin Earl coming out of that driveway,

Slow in -- fast out is better than fast in and wish to heck you'd gotten a better look at that corner before doing that.

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* Literary license here. I don't really have a cousin Earl, though I do have a brother-in-law Bubba.

 

[FJRRYDER]

Interesting post; you may be just overthinking it- hanging off doesn't equate to skill and ability on the street, it draws LEO attention and it's a lot of work. Like others have said, don't ride faster than you can see to react. The Pace doesn't mean go slow. The Pace means to ride at your abilities. Keep your butt planted in the seat, tip in, lean your shoulders and head to the inside, eyes level, put a knee out, and roll on some throttle. The key is in the straights. Stay in third gear, your RPM will be high enough to feel, and you'll be in the power band. Riding the Pace you should not have to brake much, if any at all, at the next curve. Match the Pace to the road and conditions. This is all MHO. Ride Safe.

 

[painman]

I've once heard some pro racers say they don't even ride on the street because of the danger. That stuck with me. On the street no runoff areas, no hay bales, no safety crew. When I started riding with the NorCal group Years ago I started making the mistake of trying to "keep up" with the group. Luckily I didn't go down but came close. Just realized I was new to this type of street bike and just concentrated on my own ride. Honing my skills and eventually becoming a better and safer rider. Like MCRider007 stated, "smoothness" is where it's at. Ride safe, P.M.

 

[dcarver]

whenever i feel the need for speed on the street i go ride a dirt bike. that scratches the speed itch.

 

[Uncle Hud]

MCRIDER007 posted: Concentrate on being smooth....the speed is irrelevant and will take care of itself.

Like MCRIDER007, when I ride for pure pleasure, I choose smooth. There's nothing like running a familiar route with cruise control set and a vow not to touch brakes or throttle except to avoid a crash. (I see you have a non-cruise 2007, but the principle is the same.)

My favorite local routes intertwine and/or supplement to yield loops between 20 and 35 miles long. I'll set the cruise at the speed limit or a few miles over, and go. Sure there are places where you could kick it up a dozen extra mph, but that extra speed comes off at the next curve or corner. Why not select a good average speed and see what you can accomplish?

The challenge is to ride safely without speeding up or slowing down -- which forces you to look ahead and plan your moves in advance.

It's no substitute for speed, but it offers thrills with little risk.

 

[rushes]

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