Umbrella Policies ?

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rogdeb

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Any of you guys have thoughts on these ? Good or bad.

I have one tied to my auto insurance. They've just cancelled the "umbrella" cause -- "We can give you a better deal with our new partnered company" !!

It appears to be a thinly disguised way of increasing my premiums (both auto & umbrella) without them actually saying so :rolleyes:

Do I REALLY need an umbrella policy/ Any thoughts from the "well of wisdom" ??

Thankya's

Rog

 
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Rog,

An Umbrella is a Great Plan. It is basically Extended Liability coverage (usually sold in $1mil increments) to your homeowners ($100k) & vehicle coverage($100k/$250k). For about $75-$200 a year and you total a Maseratti that exceeds your vehicle coverage or get sued for slander that exceeds your homeowners coverage, then the umbrella kicks in to cover your ASSets over and above your other insurance deductables.

It is a good way to go if you can get it.

Hope this helps... who is your insurance provider if I may ask?

P.S. The Umbrella is only as Good as the Company who Underwrites it. If it seems suspicious check their ratings under A.M. Best, Standard & Poors, & Moodys.

 
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HiYoSilver is correct.

Umbrella coverage is the cheapest incremental liability coverage you can buy, and usually overlays every other policy (Home, Auto, Cycle). Usually, it can be obtained for about a 10th of the underlying premium, but will increase your coverage dramatically.

Hopefully, you'll never need it, but that's true of all insurance. If you ever get sued, just having the insurance company pay legal expenses will be worth far more than the premium paid.

 
We took out an umbrella policy last year, after Andy's accident. The driver that hurt him had only $100K coverage and no assets. Two parties claimed against her for material damage and injuries. I don't know about the other party, but Andy received the maximum from her policy. If she had had assets, we would have sued and won.

Now, reverse the roles and pretend for a moment that one of us unwitting caused a terrible accident. We do have more coverage than the person described above, but with medical bills as they are, that can soon be eaten up. We took the umbrella policy out to protect our assets, since we own a home and a lot of nice toys.

All our policies are handled by State Farm through an agent we have worked with for almost 20yrs.

Jill

 
I have an umbrella policy through Allstate along with all my stuff (homeowners, auto, boat, etc...) But then again I work with the public and you know how they like to sue. Not always sure that the city I work for would back me up on stuff. After all it is a business and I am just an employee number to them. I have it just for piece of mind. It's worth it to me. I have been sued before, for doing my job, and let me tell you, it isn't fun. Sitting in a courtroom knowing that you are right in the way something happened, but looking at a jury and knowing it's up to them regardless of right and wrong can be very unnerving. Glad I have my umbrella policy.

Thats my .02

 
Great coverage for very little. Although there is somewhat of a hidden cost in that many require you to increase the coverage limits on your auto. The main question you need to ask yourself is do you have enough coverage with your basic policies. If you are like most, the answer is probably not. The second question is what value do you have at risk...

For us it is cheap peace of mind. Also, go with an major upstanding company and verify their ratings. A good agent should be able to assist here. If they can't find another who knows what they are talking about.

 
If you have assets, protect them. However, if you ever need it, know that once the lawyers find out you have one, it will be blood in the water.

 
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If you have assets, protect them. However, if you ever need it, know that once the lawyers find out you have one, it will be blood in the water.
Actually, it's chum to distract them from your assets to the Insurer's, and they're usually already hungry enough to bite and eat whatever is in the water. With high limits, a settlement is FAR more likely. When there is too little in your policies to pay something close to the value of a case without going after the defendant's assets directly, the plaintiff's shark will be coming for your assets. You are then trying to keep your insurer in the lawsuit, defending pursuant to its duty in the policy to defend, while it is claiming that its duty should not go on indefinitely when you have a $750,000 case against you, only $50,000 in insurance, and little to no chance for that clear liability rear ender when you blew a .09. If you have $1,000,000 in insurance, there's a much better chance that the plaintiff's shark will try to get his client and himself paid and go away, and that your insurer's obligation to indemnify is high enough $$ that they won't be trying to cut and run on declaratory relief.

If the plaintiff's shark knows what he is doing and there's a decent sized policy, he'll fully inform his client about this strategy, and with client consent, make a demand on your insurer for the policy limit (or less). Why? Because if the insurer doesn't settle it when it had a chance for an amount within the policy limit, and the plaintiff's shark thereafter gets a judgment against you for an amount above the policy limits, you have a bad faith case** against your insurer for the excess amount (and some other damages that are not assignable). But what's important is that the "excess judgment" (difference between judgment and policy limit) is usually something you can assign to the plaintiff (in a post judgment settlement) in exchange for a release from liability for more than the policy. (So, the plaintiff has ready insurer money from which to satisfy the judgment beyond the policy limit in that case, rather than trying to wring it out of you.) Too low a policy and the plaintiff's shark will not be making a policy limits (or less) demand, but even if a case is potentially a really big one, a plaintiff's attorney will be motivated by his split on a healthy policy limits setlement, AND in any event, he has an obligation to tell the client that a judgment is still a crap shoot, may take years to finally get paid on, and that it's usually cheaper (in attorney fees and costs that come out of the recovery) to settle than to go to trial and through the likely appeal. A bird in the hand, you know. OTOH, low limits seldom make the sharks go away unless you really don't have squat to go after, including no reasonably remunerative employment. Pay the money on the premiums for the peace of mind and likely shorter involvement in teh painful process of getting sued.

**In California, this is the Johansen case -- insurer breached its fiduciary duty and its duty of good faith and fair dealing to its insured by failing to settle for an amount within policy limit when it had the chance, thus exposing insured's assets to risk on the amount of the judgment above the policy limits. The judgment serves as proof of the true value of the case against the insured. In other words, the insurer tried to save itself some money by putting its insured at risk, which a fiduciary may not do. So, the court shifted the risk of doing that to the insurer -- if they want to play hard ball in negotiations, that's fine, but they do so at their risk, not their insured's.

 
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If you have assets, protect them. However, if you ever need it, know that once the lawyers find out you have one, it will be blood in the water.
Actually, it's chum to distract them from your assets to the Insurer's, and they're usually already hungry enough to bite and eat whatever is in the water. With high limits, a settlement is FAR more likely. When there is too little in your policies to pay something close to the value of a case without going after the defendant's assets directly, the plaintiff's shark will be coming for your assets. You are then trying to keep your insurer in the lawsuit, defending pursuant to its duty in the policy to defend, while it is claiming that its duty should not go on indefinitely when you have a $750,000 case against you, only $50,000 in insurance, and little to no chance for that clear liability rear ender when you blew a .09. If you have $1,000,000 in insurance, there's a much better chance that the plaintiff's shark will try to get his client and himself paid and go away, and that your insurer's obligation to indemnify is high enough $$ that they won't be trying to cut and run on declaratory relief.

If the plaintiff's shark knows what he is doing and there's a decent sized policy, he'll fully inform his client about this strategy, and with client consent, make a demand on your insurer for the policy limit (or less). Why? Because if the insurer doesn't settle it when it had a chance for an amount within the policy limit, and the plaintiff's shark thereafter gets a judgment against you for an amount above the policy limits, you have a bad faith case** against your insurer for the excess amount (and some other damages that are not assignable). But what's important is that the "excess judgment" (difference between judgment and policy limit) is usually something you can assign to the plaintiff (in a post judgment settlement) in exchange for a release from liability for more than the policy. (So, the plaintiff has ready insurer money from which to satisfy the judgment beyond the policy limit in that case, rather than trying to wring it out of you.) Too low a policy and the plaintiff's shark will not be making a policy limits (or less) demand, but even if a case is potentially a really big one, a plaintiff's attorney will be motivated by his split on a healthy policy limits setlement, AND in any event, he has an obligation to tell the client that a judgment is still a crap shoot, may take years to finally get paid on, and that it's usually cheaper (in attorney fees and costs that come out of the recovery) to settle than to go to trial and through the likely appeal. A bird in the hand, you know. OTOH, low limits seldom make the sharks go away unless you really don't have squat to go after, including no reasonably remunerative employment. Pay the money on the premiums for the peace of mind and likely shorter involvement in teh painful process of getting sued.

**In California, this is the Johansen case -- insurer breached its fiduciary duty and its duty of good faith and fair dealing to its insured by failing to settle for an amount within policy limit when it had the chance, thus exposing insured's assets to risk on the amount of the judgment above the policy limits. The judgment serves as proof of the true value of the case against the insured. In other words, the insurer tried to save itself some money by putting its insured at risk, which a fiduciary may not do. So, the court shifted the risk of doing that to the insurer -- if they want to play hard ball in negotiations, that's fine, but they do so at their risk, not their insured's.

You must be a lawyer that does insurance work!

 
You must be a lawyer that does insurance work!
Something like that. :) Ex journeyman drywall taper/painter/ski bum turned lawyer, who USED TO handle insurance bad faith, coverage and personal injury matters. Mostly real estate, land use, business, estate planning and trust disputes nowadays.

 
Yes - the Umbrella is the way to go. It usually offers lower cost for those higher limits, but something that is even more important - the coverage is more extensive.

In Ontario, Auto and Home insurance policies contain liablility insurance coverage, but there is no coverage for "punitive damages". The umbrella covers "punitive damages" in addition to any other damages awarded in a law suit.

Punitive damages are not payment for any out of pocket costs incurred by the plaintiff. They are not for lost income, or lost enjoyment of life, or mental anguish or any other "non-economic" loss. Punitive damages are often awarded in addition to all the other stuff just because... you have to be taught a lesson. After all, punitive means "serving or inflicting punishment".

I don't know about you, but I don't want to have to have my assets on the line to take the punishment - I'd rather let my provider (State Farm) use their own assets! Leave my assets alone! :glare:

 
If you have assets, protect them. However, if you ever need it, know that once the lawyers find out you have one, it will be blood in the water.
Actually, it's chum to distract them from your assets to the Insurer's, and they're usually already hungry enough to bite and eat whatever is in the water. With high limits, a settlement is FAR more likely. When there is too little in your policies to pay something close to the value of a case without going after the defendant's assets directly, the plaintiff's shark will be coming for your assets. You are then trying to keep your insurer in the lawsuit, defending pursuant to its duty in the policy to defend, while it is claiming that its duty should not go on indefinitely when you have a $750,000 case against you, only $50,000 in insurance, and little to no chance for that clear liability rear ender when you blew a .09. If you have $1,000,000 in insurance, there's a much better chance that the plaintiff's shark will try to get his client and himself paid and go away, and that your insurer's obligation to indemnify is high enough $$ that they won't be trying to cut and run on declaratory relief.

If the plaintiff's shark knows what he is doing and there's a decent sized policy, he'll fully inform his client about this strategy, and with client consent, make a demand on your insurer for the policy limit (or less). Why? Because if the insurer doesn't settle it when it had a chance for an amount within the policy limit, and the plaintiff's shark thereafter gets a judgment against you for an amount above the policy limits, you have a bad faith case** against your insurer for the excess amount (and some other damages that are not assignable). But what's important is that the "excess judgment" (difference between judgment and policy limit) is usually something you can assign to the plaintiff (in a post judgment settlement) in exchange for a release from liability for more than the policy. (So, the plaintiff has ready insurer money from which to satisfy the judgment beyond the policy limit in that case, rather than trying to wring it out of you.) Too low a policy and the plaintiff's shark will not be making a policy limits (or less) demand, but even if a case is potentially a really big one, a plaintiff's attorney will be motivated by his split on a healthy policy limits setlement, AND in any event, he has an obligation to tell the client that a judgment is still a crap shoot, may take years to finally get paid on, and that it's usually cheaper (in attorney fees and costs that come out of the recovery) to settle than to go to trial and through the likely appeal. A bird in the hand, you know. OTOH, low limits seldom make the sharks go away unless you really don't have squat to go after, including no reasonably remunerative employment. Pay the money on the premiums for the peace of mind and likely shorter involvement in teh painful process of getting sued.

**In California, this is the Johansen case -- insurer breached its fiduciary duty and its duty of good faith and fair dealing to its insured by failing to settle for an amount within policy limit when it had the chance, thus exposing insured's assets to risk on the amount of the judgment above the policy limits. The judgment serves as proof of the true value of the case against the insured. In other words, the insurer tried to save itself some money by putting its insured at risk, which a fiduciary may not do. So, the court shifted the risk of doing that to the insurer -- if they want to play hard ball in negotiations, that's fine, but they do so at their risk, not their insured's.
Quite a reply Rich, but I'd expect no less :)

And thanks all for the other "positive" replies.

We've had this "umbrella" for 6 years now and agree it's a "must" -- just didn't like how they were raising the rates,, and us on a fixed income and all :rolleyes:

I'll continue biting the bullet to "21st Century Ins." ( now partnered with RLI for umbrella's) -- it's a good thing!!

 
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