Unauthorized TBS on Gen III?

[Constant Mesh]

Obviously from the parts diagram throttle valves 3 & 4 are mounted on a common shaft. Same for valves 1 & 2. Looking at the diagram one might speculate that there's just one shaft for all four valves.

https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport

Select 2013 Motorcycle, then FJR1300A, then Intake 2 for the parts diagram.

Looks like the only adjustment is the air screws.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Obviously from the parts diagram throttle valves 3 & 4 are mounted on a common shaft. Same for valves 1 & 2. Looking at the diagram one might speculate that there's just one shaft for all four valves.
https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/partviewer/default.aspx?ls=sport

Select 2013 Motorcycle, then FJR1300A, then Intake 2 for the parts diagram.

Looks like the only adjustment is the air screws.

Yepper, sure looks like one shaft and NO butterfly adjustments any more. My FZ (and yamaha F150 outboard engine) has a simliar set up BUT between 1&2 TB and 3&4 is an adjustment. There isn't any butterfly adjustments, likely just air screws..

 

[Fred W]

Sure looks like a single shaft, but it's funny that it doesn't show any throttle plates anywhere in the diagram.

I guess the only UA version of TBS for a 3rd gen would just be adjusting those air bypass screws at higher than idle speed? Who really cares if it is synchronized at 1100 rpm anyway?

 

[ionbeam]

... Who really cares if it is synchronized at 100 rpm anyway?

Ya, an engine that's not running doesn't care about the synch

 

[Fred W]

Misplaced a digit. Oh here it is: :****:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Whats also odd is part #22, is a "Pilot screw" and is ONLY on the the outer TWO TB's (TWO barrel TB?).

There are FOUR vacuum caps for the sync (guess you CAN'T adjust 2 & 3 but 1 & 4 to the middle cylinders)...

https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/50732822f8700218e05b8866/intake-2

 

[Fred W]

That doesn't make any sense. I'm betting that they just did not show the other two. If you look at the castings the pairs are mirror images of each other and the screws seem to go in at an angle from the rear.

Anyone have an FSM for a 3rd Gen yet?

 

[ionbeam]

...Anyone have an FSM for a 3rd Gen yet?

I was thinking we could take a field trip to Albany and take ZOOOM's FJR apart and solve lots of mysteries about the Gen III. We just need to know when he isn't home As long as we don't need to put it back together we don't need no stinkin' FSM.

 

[Bungie]

Anyone have an FSM for a 3rd Gen yet?

I've got one. Not sure what it shows, but I can tell you first hand their are 4 air screws that are pain in the ass to get to.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

That doesn't make any sense. I'm betting that they just did not show the other two. If you look at the castings the pairs are mirror images of each other and the screws seem to go in at an angle from the rear.
Anyone have an FSM for a 3rd Gen yet?

Agreed, definitly not in the pic, but if you go the link I posted, and check how many #22 pilot screw total, it shows TWO.... Perhaps that one screw (per TB) has an orifice that goes to the adjacent TB (as it is cast as ONE unit)

And where are the butterfly part #'s/ pic??

Just as a side note, my 07 FZ6 (I4), uses the same, TWO separate TB's(2 barrells each) BUT does have a sync screw for the center of the throttle shaft.

Now, the air adjustment screws is very different from the FJR. There is a separate "Block" that is tied (don't know how) to the TB's, towards the left side of the bike under the tank. You still hook up your manometer the same, but, unlike the FJR, all the air screws(4), are right there. My last sync of the FZ, I was able to get within 3mm's (again ONLY TWO TB assemblies, one shaft adjustment in the middle) No reaching deep (at least on my old Gen I) trying to reach the air screw for adjustment.

Point being, perhaps(probably not), the other air screws (if there are for the center TB's) maybe NOT on the TB itself.

Someone with a Gen 3 shop manual should have that info..

Yamaha, just eliminating the throttle shaft adjustments (all of them yet!) certainly simplifies things, but has their quaility control increased to make up for that lack of adjustment??

I know on my Yamaha F150 HP outboard engine (about 2300cc's), (FI'ed), same set up as the FZ, but does NOT have any air screws, One of the TB's(with no adjustment), the vacuum is still with spec, but definitly off considerably MORE than the other TB. Yamaha has you syncing (with the one, center, Butterfly shaft screw, again, NO air screws). Its actually a "safety" torx screw. Idle is adjusted by an electromechainical switch (Idle Control Switch) to keep idle at its specified RPM's.

Seems to me, Yamaha is combining different faucets of their other engines, with the FJR which may not necessarily be bad. I believe the idle adjusment for the Gen 3 is not a screw anymore (at least on the left side), is it now controlled by an ICS, or has that scre just been moved?

 

[Fred W]

There are 4 screws and one will be painted white. That is supposed to be the reference for the other three.

No idea why there are "2" noted on the parts list. Maybe because they only showed two in the drawing?

 

[Queensland Ken]

The reference screw, the painted one, was #1 throttle body.

Was real lucky that the sync was perfect throughout the rev range up to 4500 rpm.

Bike still running in when I did it at 700km.

Was scratching my head how to access them if I needed to adjust them.

Hard enough to find not alone to adjust if you need to.

Would have to make up a temp external fuel tank or extend the fuel line & pump wiring.

Worry about it if the time ever comes.

 

[Bungie]

The reference screw, the painted one, was #1 throttle body.
Would have to make up a temp external fuel tank or extend the fuel line & pump wiring.

Yup, #1 is reference (closest to clutch) and is dabbed with white paint.

Accessing the screws is a PIA.

Remove seat

Remove tank 'belt' in front of seat.

Undo front gas tank bolts

Loosen rear gas tank bolt.

Disconnect vent tube(s)

Lift tank.

Detach clip on fuel line, then fuel line

Disconnect 2 electrical connectors

Remove rear tank bolt.

Lift off tank.

Now, to get to the TB's.

Remove Tbar

Undo heat shield but removing the single snap screw is a huge PIA.

Bend the heat shield to **** removing it.

Spend about a minute looking for the vacuum taps.

Spend another 20 minutes looking for the TBS screws.

Hook up tester.

Reinstall fuel tank using the rear mount only.

Prop up tank high enough so you can get your hand in there.

Fire up bike.

Realize the flexible shaft screwdriver specifically for this job will probably be handy for something else in the future because it's useless to access the air screws on the Gen III.

Dig out a short shaft jewelers screwdriver that will work.

Realize you forgot exactly where the air screws were.

Remove tank, put some index marks on the fuel rail.

Reinstall tank

Run out of gas while adjusting the screws because the fuel pickup is uncovered.

Put more fuel in the tank.

Adjust air screws.

Reverse disassembly.

Take bike for a test ride. Hey, the bike really seemed to like that (and mine weren't far out at all at 16Km)

All in all, it takes about twice as long as doing a TBS on the Gen 1.

 

[Tanker]

Thanks for that Bungie^^^^^ What a PITA compared to my Gen I.

Now you don't need to answer my PM I sent to you earlier today.

 

[Constant Mesh]

There are two pressure sensors shown. One connects to the intake hose network (MAP) and the other has no hose connection. It must be an atmospheric sensor.

A switch is shown on the left side of the diagram next to the where the the throttle cables are connected. Maybe it provides confirmation of a fully closed throttle.

I wonder why the servomotor is not shown on the throttle assembly?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The reference screw, the painted one, was #1 throttle body.

Would have to make up a temp external fuel tank or extend the fuel line & pump wiring.

Yup, #1 is reference (closest to clutch) and is dabbed with white paint.

Accessing the screws is a PIA.

Remove seat

Remove tank 'belt' in front of seat.

Undo front gas tank bolts

Loosen rear gas tank bolt.

Disconnect vent tube(s)

Lift tank.

Detach clip on fuel line, then fuel line

Disconnect 2 electrical connectors

Remove rear tank bolt.

Lift off tank.

Now, to get to the TB's.

Remove Tbar

Undo heat shield but removing the single snap screw is a huge PIA.

Bend the heat shield to **** removing it.

Spend about a minute looking for the vacuum taps.

Spend another 20 minutes looking for the TBS screws.

Hook up tester.

Reinstall fuel tank using the rear mount only.

Prop up tank high enough so you can get your hand in there.

Fire up bike.

Realize the flexible shaft screwdriver specifically for this job will probably be handy for something else in the future because it's useless to access the air screws on the Gen III.

Dig out a short shaft jewelers screwdriver that will work.

Realize you forgot exactly where the air screws were.

Remove tank, put some index marks on the fuel rail.

Reinstall tank

Run out of gas while adjusting the screws because the fuel pickup is uncovered.

Put more fuel in the tank.

Adjust air screws.

Reverse disassembly.

So are the middle air screws up top (2 & 3 cylinders), just not shown in the parts fisch?

Also, cylinder #1, (as seated on the bike) isn't on the stator side? (with cylinder #4 on the cutch side?)

Not directly related but it would certainly be nice if Yamaha incorporated the FZ style sync block to the FJR. Lift the tank, sync away:

 

[Bungie]

As I said in a previous post. Their are 4 air screws. all oriented rearward.

My white mark is on the cylinder closest to the stator (clutch lever side of the bike) and can be clearly be seen marked with white paint.

I did neglect to mention that air screws 2 and 3 are a real bitch to get to because of interference with the Injector loom and such. But you can get at them with a short jewelers screwdriver.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As I said in a previous post. Their are 4 air screws. all oriented rearward.
My white mark is on the cylinder closest to the stator (clutch lever side of the bike) and can be clearly be seen marked with white paint.

I did neglect to mention that air screws 2 and 3 are a real bitch to get to because of interference with the Injector loom and such. But you can get at them with a short jewelers screwdriver.

Thanks, that makes sense..

 

[rocketman0]

What's a good sync tool to have to do TBS? Thanks.

 

[Tanker]

What's a good sync tool to have to do TBS? Thanks.

I prefer the Morgan Carbtune, works great.