Update/resolved & thx. —> Tire mount / balance weight(s) question

[onebadtoad]

Don't quite know what to make of this and am interested in forum members advice / perspective. I picked up a new set of Road 6 GT's from a Cycle Gear Shop, pulled my wheels and dropped them off for a mount/balance at their new shop. Picked them up today and wasn't crazy about the wheel weights. Front wheel - 8 - 1/4oz weights under the left side valve stem (Fobo 2 TPMS stem and cap installed) and 4 - 1/4oz weights nearly directly opposite on the other side of the wheel. The mount/balance tech indicated that there were no "heavy spots" indicated via "dots" on the tires from the manufacturer(?). The set of retired Dunlop RoadSmart's required 4 - 1/4oz weights total. Assuming they're balanced (?), not confident in the properly part. TYIA.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

There are only two ways to find out. Riding it and checking for vibration, or removing the wheels and balancing yourself.

Looking at the weights isn’t going to give you useful info.

 

[Ignacio]

know I can just srtap 'em on and go for a test ride, prefer not to before just checking in to hear what, perhaps others, may have experienced. Thx.

I own the equipment to rebalance in my garage if I were inclined, but would go test ride first!

In other words: Ride more & stress less.

 

[BigOgre]

I could see where you might question it. With 8 ozs on one side and 4 directly opposite, it would seem logically that you could take off 4 on both sides and come out the same. But I do my own balancing and would trust that before what I think is logical. That said, whether or not the numbers are correct, I couldn't see myself sticking that many weights in line on one side of the wheel. Would rather try for an equal amount on either side of the center ridge.

 

[torch]

You do own the equipment. Take the wheel off, put the axle back in and support the axle on either side with a pair of jackstands or similar. Spin the wheel. If it consistently stops at the same place all the time, it's out of balance. A clincher is if it comes to a stop, then reverses and comes to a final resting place that is consistent.

 

[sloppy]

I could see where you might question it. With 8 ozs on one side and 4 directly opposite, it would seem logically that you could take off 4 on both sides and come out the same. But I do my own balancing and would trust that before what I think is logical. That said, whether or not the numbers are correct, I couldn't see myself sticking that many weights in line on one side of the wheel. Would rather try for an equal amount on either side of the center ridge.

Agree 100%, I do my own balancing for that very reason.

 

[Old Guy]

I could see where you might question it. With 8 ozs on one side and 4 directly opposite, it would seem logically that you could take off 4 on both sides and come out the same. But I do my own balancing and would trust that before what I think is logical. That said, whether or not the numbers are correct, I couldn't see myself sticking that many weights in line on one side of the wheel. Would rather try for an equal amount on either side of the center ridge.

I do my own as well and like BigOgre I don't see the logic of having 8 on once side and 4 opposite. The last one I did at home needed eight to balance, so I broke the bead and turned the tire on the rim 180 degrees and balanced it with two. That was a Michelin PR4. Michelin doesn't put balance dots on them, presumably because they're so close from the factory. But then, why would turning it on the rim change anything if the tire wasn't off?

 

[Sunnyorlando]

".... With 8 ozs on one side and 4 directly opposite, it would seem logically that you could take off 4 on both sides and come out the same. ..."

Quick observation - I don't believe it's 8 1/4oz what he's saying, I read it as 8 of 1/4oz weights, which makes it 2oz
He says "Front wheel - 8 - 1/4oz weights under the left side valve stem (Fobo 2 TPMS stem and cap installed) and 4 - 1/4oz weights"
And that matches the pic.

If I came across a tire the needed 8oz (+4 on the other side) to balance, I think I'd have a problem with that...
Frankly I don't recall anytime that I have mounted tires that needed that much weight to balance.

 

[BigOgre]

Quick observation - I don't believe it's 8 1/4oz what he's saying, I read it as 8 of 1/4oz weights, which makes it 2oz
He says "Front wheel - 8 - 1/4oz weights under the left side valve stem (Fobo 2 TPMS stem and cap installed) and 4 - 1/4oz weights"
And that matches the pic.

If I came across a tire the needed 8oz (+4 on the other side) to balance, I think I'd have a problem with that...
Frankly I don't recall anytime that I have mounted tires that needed that much weight to balance.

Granted. It was late and I wrote that while watching a lackadaisical Islanders game. Still doesn't change the premise though about numbers opposite each other or weights lined up as is.

 

[SFZX]

I've owned my own Coates tire machine and doing my own balancing for over 25 years. Never ever seen more than 4 1/4 oz weights needed. I think I spoke with a michelin rep not long ago two years maybe. i called because no more dots to align at valve stem. Best recollection was that Michelin now culls out tires that are not within tight overall balance restrictions to pass their quality inspection best memory was out by more than 1/2 oz, but he said its very rare to see one out by more 1/4 oz. This looks like the tech forgot to remove the first four across from the stem before he added the eight on the opposite side. I would definitely investigate this further even take it back and complain. I agree completely with old guy.

 

[Auburn]

Since everyone has gone down the rabbit hole. Did the guy ever go ride it? My guess is you could remove all the weights and he would not know the difference. Tire wear would show, but he would not feel any difference unless he is well over 100 mph and even then the suspension would probably take care of it.

That being said, I have done about 200 sets of tires or more at my tech meets. I have seen tires that needed no weights and tires that needed more than what this one has. Even after breaking the bead and moving the tire around. How much weight does it take to balance the wheel without the tire on it? Many would be surprised by how much it can take. Some tires are just ******. They can be off by a bunch on the balance.
My advice, go ride it. If you feel something, then take it back (but most likely in your head now that your worried about the number of weights on the rim).

As Iggy said Ride more, Stress less.

 

[Old Guy]

I've owned my own Coates tire machine and doing my own balancing for over 25 years. Never ever seen more than 4 1/4 oz weights needed. I think I spoke with a michelin rep not long ago two years maybe. i called because no more dots to align at valve stem. Best recollection was that Michelin now culls out tires that are not within tight overall balance restrictions to pass their quality inspection best memory was out by more than 1/2 oz, but he said its very rare to see one out by more 1/4 oz. This looks like the tech forgot to remove the first four across from the stem before he added the eight on the opposite side. I would definitely investigate this further even take it back and complain. I agree completely with old guy.

Now that I read that, that's the most logical reason for having them on opposite sides -- he just failed to remove the old before balancing. I've read that too about Michelins being so close there's no dot needed anymore, but to me at least, it just makes no sense that rotating the tire on the wheel would change the necessary weight by 1 1/2 ounces unless the tire was out of balance itself. No matter now, though; it's doing well

 

[art miller]

Since everyone has gone down the rabbit hole. Did the guy ever go ride it? My guess is you could remove all the weights and he would not know the difference. Tire wear would show, but he would not feel any difference unless he is well over 100 mph and even then the suspension would probably take care of it.

That being said, I have done about 200 sets of tires or more at my tech meets. I have seen tires that needed no weights and tires that needed more than what this one has. Even after breaking the bead and moving the tire around. How much weight does it take to balance the wheel without the tire on it? Many would be surprised by how much it can take. Some tires are just ******. They can be off by a bunch on the balance.
My advice, go ride it. If you feel something, then take it back (but most likely in your head now that your worried about the number of weights on the rim).

As Iggy said Ride more, Stress less.

 

[art miller]

Interesting chain of comments here. I know this will drawl negative comments but here it is. I have been running Michelin PR tires starting with PR 2 and currently Road 5. Of all the series I have never used wheel weights. I started back in 1999 on a Virago 1100 using ceramic beads in the front tire and Ride-On in the rear tire. In 2007 when I bought my first FJR I did the same after the OEM tires were worn out. I have had no wheel weights on the three FJR's I have subsequently owned. Many claim this is snake oil and that is fine. I have had the FJR's over 100mph multiple times and have had no noticeable vibration or handle bar shake. Maybe I am just the lucky guy but If i had the issue that started this thread I would try something different. No worries about weights falling off or ugly **** on the wheels!!

 

[Rusty3]

Could not agree more. Switched to Dyna Beads 60,000 miles ago and never looked back.

 

[Bounce]

Last time I did my own balance on a Mich using someone's Parnes (sp?) balancer, we did it with no weights (just spun the tire on the wheel until each of their high spots complimented each other.

Not all turn out like that, but it's something I sure aspire to.

 

[Mikesgts1000]

Hi, I have just been reading this tech forum on front tire issues. I recently got a vibration on the handle bars at around sixty MPH, if I let go of the bars it really started a bad wobble. Talked to a few friends and got the usual comments, rebalance the front wheel as the issue seemed to be definitely the front wheel, only one guy said remove the weights and add ceramic beads. I checked out a few brands on line and reviews seemed to be all over, good - bad and DO NOT USE THEM ! So what the heck I’ll try them out, bought them and tried to follow the instructions! It took me two hours with the bottle and tube trying to get 2oz into the tire through the valve stem. Gave up after only an approx 1oz! I removed the old weights and added the 42psi in the tire and tested the bike up to around 80 MPH, no vibration or wobble on the handle bars! Back home and removed the wheel, tire levers out and broke the tire bead and added the other 1oz of beads and put the tire back over the rim and put the pressure back up to 42psi. Took the FJ out onto the Hyway and up to 90 / 95 MPH and no vibration and let go of the bars and no wobble!
I’ve no idea on how they work but they did the job, I have no way to verify if they balanced out the issue as they just spin around and some how find the spot to balance out the wheel and tire. So guess I’ll take a few longer rides to see if they continue to do the job.
Mike S.
PS. The brand I used was: Counteract, bought them on Amazon came with the recommended amount of beads and a bottle and two packs of 1oz plus a special valve with an internal cap to prevent the beads from getting stuck in the valve.

 

[RossKean]

A lot of controversy over balancing beads. Lots of people love them!

 

[torch]

I use them. I balance the rim first though*, so the beads are only tasked with small imbalances of the tire itself. (DON'T try to balance a tire after the beads are installed. They just roll around in the bottom making any results meaningless).

2oz in an FJR front seems a little excessive though. Generally I use 1oz in the front and 2oz in the rear. Also, I buy them in the 4-pack of 3 oz bags, intended for car tires. Same beads, far more economical than the MC kits. Split the bag up using a postal scale. 1 car kit does 4 sets of MC tires.

Also, you can vacuum out most of the used beads by placing a coffee filter over the end of the vacuum hose. No problem re-using them so long as they are not contaminated with tire lube or similar.



*I have one of the Chinese MC wheel balancers with 4 bearings, 2 cones and a mild steel "shaft" (12mm mild steel round bar) on a support stand. Worse than useless as shipped -- too much clearance between the cone ID and the shaft (on the order of 30 or 40 thou) and the round bar was not completely straight. One would get better results using the bike's axle supported by two jack stands, relying on the wheel bearings.

I replaced the supplied round bar with actual 1/2" ground shafting and bored the cones to a 0.001" sliding fit so now the thing is accurate and reliable.

 

[Mikesgts1000]

A lot of controversy over balancing beads. Lots of people love them!

As I said I don’t know how they work but they did! I’m about to change the front tire at the end of my riding season (don’t like the cold weather) and have purchased a new Michelin Road 6GT and I’ll add back another 2oz into the tire and let you know how it goes next year. Oh, forgot I’ve added another 5,650kl. Since adding the beads and still running good with no vibe or wobbles when letting go of the bars. I don’t believe they should work but they have!