Ways to helping the stock fueling

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Auron

FJRForums' Red-headed stepchild
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I was looking around and other than a Power Commander, I don't see too many options.

Is there a relatively inexpensive way to smooth out the throttle response mostly on/off the throttle? I'm not looking for any HP gains, just fixing what the EPA stuck their nose into.

 
I don't really think the EPA has anything to do with the off-on throttle transition abruptness. The lean surging, and some of the other ills... yes, absolutely. But that is not your complaint.

The reason there is a sudden jerk when you first roll on the throttle (from fully off) is that the Fuel Injection cuts all fuel during "over-run" condition. That is the technical name for the condition that occurs when you chop the throttle off fully while decelerating and engine braking. The reason for this may be emissions related, but I'm almost certain** that the EPA never tests vehicles for emissions output during over-run.

In any case, a Power Commander does very little to alleviate that condition. You can fatten up the initial injection, which makes the on-throttle surge less objectionable, but you really can't add any fuel on over-run.

** I could be wrong, which would certainly explain why every manufacturer does the same thing

 
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I would assume any fueling problems are becuase of the lean fuel mixture which would have to be EPA related.

Doesn't really matter why but does that mean nothing can really be done about it, especially at low RPM?

 
I would assume any fueling problems are becuase of the lean fuel mixture which would have to be EPA related.

Doesn't really matter why but does that mean nothing can really be done about it, especially at low RPM?
Things can be done, even at low rpm (power commander or the Barbarian jumper and adjust the CO).

My point was that you can't do anything at zero throttle.

 
Sorry to give you the bad news, but the route to smooth throttle response on the FJR is the G2 throttle tube and a Power Commander with the smoothness map.

Slardy

 
That's fine, I've had to PCIII all my bikes anyway.

 
Over on the FZ1OA site a lot of guys use a fuel cut eliminator (FCE) made by Ivans Performance. The early gen 2 FZ1's had a need for this product. Wonder if anybody makes one for our FJR?

 
I don't really think the EPA has anything to do with the off-on throttle transition abruptness. The lean surging, and some of the other ills... yes, absolutely. But that is not your complaint.

The reason there is a sudden jerk when you first roll on the throttle (from fully off) is that the Fuel Injection cuts all fuel during "over-run" condition. That is the technical name for the condition that occurs when you chop the throttle off fully while decelerating and engine braking. The reason for this may be emissions related, but I'm almost certain** that the EPA never tests vehicles for emissions output during over-run.

In any case, a Power Commander does very little to alleviate that condition. You can fatten up the initial injection, which makes the on-throttle surge less objectionable, but you really can't add any fuel on over-run.

** I could be wrong, which would certainly explain why every manufacturer does the same thing
You are wrong Fred.

One of the Power Commander's biggest gains is off/on throttle transitions. Cures the 'lean surge' that is all too frequently present when rolling on throttle from a closed position.

 
I don't really think the EPA has anything to do with the off-on throttle transition abruptness. The lean surging, and some of the other ills... yes, absolutely. But that is not your complaint.

The reason there is a sudden jerk when you first roll on the throttle (from fully off) is that the Fuel Injection cuts all fuel during "over-run" condition. That is the technical name for the condition that occurs when you chop the throttle off fully while decelerating and engine braking. The reason for this may be emissions related, but I'm almost certain** that the EPA never tests vehicles for emissions output during over-run.

In any case, a Power Commander does very little to alleviate that condition. You can fatten up the initial injection, which makes the on-throttle surge less objectionable, but you really can't add any fuel on over-run.

** I could be wrong, which would certainly explain why every manufacturer does the same thing
You are wrong Fred.

One of the Power Commander's biggest gains is off/on throttle transitions. Cures the 'lean surge' that is all too frequently present when rolling on throttle from a closed position.
No, you are wrong, Skooter.

"Lean surge" has nothing at all to do with rolling on the throttle from closed. Lean surge is the "hunting" feeling that you get when cruising along at a steady throttle. I have a PCIII, my FJR does exhibit lean surge, and the PCIII did fix that. But none of that has anything to do with off to on throttle transitions

The only way that a Power Commander can help in off to on throttle transitions is by adding fuel in the 2% throttle column. By making that mixture overly rich you can soften the transition somewhat when you crack the throttle. But you cannot eliminate it because the ECU will still cut the fuel off on over-run. By the way, this is not unique to the FJR by any means. This applies to most fuel injected motorcycles.

What would be needed to eliminate this issue is something like the Ivan's Fuel Cut Eliminator. Those usually fool the ECU into thinking that the throttle is never fully closed, so it continues to send some fuel during overrun and you don't get the jerkiness when you re-open the throttle. You would also lose some of the engine braking that you get with a closed throttle now.

What I was saying I may be wrong about was whether the EPA tests emissions on trailing throttle. Not whether any of that happens.

 
I don't really think the EPA has anything to do with the off-on throttle transition abruptness. The lean surging, and some of the other ills... yes, absolutely. But that is not your complaint.

The reason there is a sudden jerk when you first roll on the throttle (from fully off) is that the Fuel Injection cuts all fuel during "over-run" condition. That is the technical name for the condition that occurs when you chop the throttle off fully while decelerating and engine braking. The reason for this may be emissions related, but I'm almost certain** that the EPA never tests vehicles for emissions output during over-run.

In any case, a Power Commander does very little to alleviate that condition. You can fatten up the initial injection, which makes the on-throttle surge less objectionable, but you really can't add any fuel on over-run.

** I could be wrong, which would certainly explain why every manufacturer does the same thing
You are wrong Fred.

One of the Power Commander's biggest gains is off/on throttle transitions. Cures the 'lean surge' that is all too frequently present when rolling on throttle from a closed position.
No, you are wrong, Skooter.

"Lean surge" has nothing at all to do with rolling on the throttle from closed. Lean surge is the "hunting" feeling that you get when cruising along at a steady throttle. I have a PCIII, my FJR does exhibit lean surge, and the PCIII did fix that. But none of that has anything to do with off to on throttle transitions

The only way that a Power Commander can help in off to on throttle transitions is by adding fuel in the 2% throttle column. By making that mixture overly rich you can soften the transition somewhat when you crack the throttle. But you cannot eliminate it because the ECU will still cut the fuel off on over-run. By the way, this is not unique to the FJR by any means. This applies to most fuel injected motorcycles.

What would be needed to eliminate this issue is something like the Ivan's Fuel Cut Eliminator. Those usually fool the ECU into thinking that the throttle is never fully closed, so it continues to send some fuel during overrun and you don't get the jerkiness when you re-open the throttle. You would also lose some of the engine braking that you get with a closed throttle now.

What I was saying I may be wrong about was whether the EPA tests emissions on trailing throttle. Not whether any of that happens.
Nope. YOU are wrong! :p

After adding the PCIII to my first FJR, the biggest positive change I noticed was the elimination of the surge when rolling on throttle from a closed position. When I bought my 2nd FJR, I noticed that same off/on throttle 'surge' the first corner I took. Don't know what to tell you buckaroo. The difference in throttle application from closed to open was night and day depending on whether a PCIII was installed. Try to explain it all you want with your theory, but I know what I felt.

 
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I suspect you are both right. The first gen 2 FZ1's ('06) had an issue with very snatchy off to on throttle response. Made it hard to transition throttle in a corner. You'd open the throttle and get a surge of power. This spawned Ivan's FCE which does just what you say, Fred. Subsequent years Yamaha made changes to the ecu. My brother bought an '09 and said the fuel cut wasn't very noticeable unless he was chopping the throttle at 7k rpm and rolling back in. All this has been hashed out ad nauseum on the FZ1OA board. Most guys with later model gen 2's don't report an issue. Throttle transition improved but the fuel cut is still there. How did Mamaha do it? My bro decided against the FCE and went with a PCIII. He says he has eliminated any surge or hesitation with the PCIII. In his sucessful quest for a good bit more power by feeding the beast more fuel, any trace of throttle transition surge has gone by the wayside. The PCIII is not an FCE. BTW, there seem to be hundreds of maps out there for the FZ1, very few for the FJR.

My FJR came with PCIII installed along with Dale's header and slipon. I was told by the previous owner it is running a dyno tuned map. It runs quite nicely but still doesn't transition as smoothly as my carbed gen1 FZ1 with Ivan's jet kit and carb mods. I suspect fuel cut has something to do with this.

Now you two kiss and make up - pics please :lol:

 
Sorry to give you the bad news, but the route to smooth throttle response on the FJR is the G2 throttle tube and a Power Commander with the smoothness map.

Slardy

Good point.
Not really, pickledik....

If the OP (who doesn't list his model FJR in his profile) has an 06 or 07, THEN the G2 will help him out. Yamaha dumped the eccentric throttle tube ******** in 08.

Hey Auron!!! Post up...what model year is your piss-poor runnin' POS??? :p :p :p

 
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