What am I missing here

[2WheelTiger]

Oh, I get it now. Slower riders just don't have the skills necessary to ride fast and, of course, riding fast is "proper" :rofl: I enjoy riding riding both fast AND slow, depending on the situation. That must make me, what, lucky?

See exskibum's post. Yes, the inference was that slow riders often equal unskilled riders. Riding way below the speed limit and tagging the brakes every time the bars need to be turned is a sign of an underskilled and potentially dangerous rider. You're a ridercoach and you know this.

Motorcyclists don't generally introduce themselves by saying, "Hi, I'm Tom and I really have no clue what I'm doing with the handlebars." Slow is one thing, but erratic and brake happy shows a lack of experience and confidence.

If you're an experienced rider who's riding within your limits, I think it's a great philosophy to let the fast guy fly ahead of you. Just like in football, let your blocker block. Heck, you might avoid a ticket. :lol:

 

[Old Michael]

Oh, I get it now. Slower riders just don't have the skills necessary to ride fast and, of course, riding fast is "proper" :rofl: I enjoy riding riding both fast AND slow, depending on the situation. That must make me, what, lucky?Great job illustrating jwilly's point from post #2 :good:

Thank you Larry. :clapping:

 

[cougar8000]

Just so we are clear. This is not really regarding those that can't decide if they should brake or gun it. That is another topic in its own.

This is regarding people stating that slower rider in front of them somehow endangers their life. I think we all know what lead me to make this post. No, this is not a slap in the face, this is a discussion if you will and also to help me understand the dynamics of the group.

This is gonna sound egotistical, but here goes.
I never let a slow or newbie rider follow me. I follow them. Why? I KNOW I'm a better rider than they are. I don't want to get hit. I don't want to have to turn around to see if they're still there. I don't wanna have to worry.

Their brake lights don't even concern me. If I'm looking at their tail, I'm the one that's F'ing up.

Andre, I think you hit it right on the head. Be that rider skilled or not, he or she is in front of you. If you are target fixating then is it really a fault of a rider in front of you. If you can't judge your distance to avoid getting bothered by stop and go, again is it a rider in front of you.

I am sorry, but so far I haven't seen a proff that rider in front is a danger to the rider behind him. I was starting to worry a bit hear.

 

[exskibum]

This is regarding people stating that slower rider in front of them somehow endangers their life. I think we all know what lead me to make this post.

Sorry, but *I* don't know what led you to begin this discussion. Sorry for failing to get the import, and therefore, probably to properly assess the intended direction of the discussion.

I am sorry, but so far I haven't seen a proff that rider in front is a danger to the rider behind him. I was starting to worry a bit hear.

In light of my aforementioned ignorance, I can only say that I'd prefer fewer distractions any time I'm on the road. I try to ride in open spaces in traffic, I pull over to let aggressive a$$hats go by and get out of my vicinity, and I stay away from drunks and inattentive cell phone users. I'd call it envelope management. (EDIT -- please don't assume I'm comparing a slower or inexperienced rider to a drunk!!)

Again, I'm sure I missed something, but I don't think a slow rider or even an inexperienced one in front of me is a "danger" to me, absent exceptional stupidity. Like Andre said, it's still my responsibility to manage what I encounter. BUT, . . . I choose to minimize the distractions, both for maximizing my margin of safety and my enjoyment (recognizing my own limitations and occasional impatience).

 

[madmike2]

I've ridden behind fast bikers and I've ridden behind slow riders. As stated above, in a couple of posts, the distance and perception are MY responsibility.

Personally, I'd rather follow a slow rider who rides within is capability. I can increase my following distance (3 seconds+) to 1/8th mile. That's plenty enough to keep an eye on him and still concentrate on my cornering line or any perceived danger.

Riding behind a rider who "thinks" he should be fast and is choosing poor lines, braking late or turning in too quickly and running wide is a frightful experience. It happened to me on a group ride and I backed off and left double what I thought was safe, that took any pressure off that rider and left me a large cushion in which to react if necessary. If some "emergency" happens to turn into a "panic", that's on ME for not being prepared or identifying and anticipating.

I understand what some are saying about being smooth while following another, but it can still happen while following a slower rider if I leave enough distance so that I maintain my smoothness and ride my cornering line. Like others, I'd rather have a slower rider in front of me than have him "pushing" me in a corner.

My problem is that I am a "delayed apex/late entry" rider when enjoying a curving road. I find that most others have turned in well before I could see through a corner. Following me can "put off" another rider who is not used to seeing the technique. I caN still make "decent time" when I'm on-my-game

 

[Fencer]

What posts have lead you to this conclusion?

I think he's referring to the track day photo's that Fencer posted! :haha: :haha:

They will tell you real quick on the track that a slow rider will get run over.

I almost did a couple full stopies after a straight-away from slower riders ahead of me sitting in a turn, and I by no means am good, I am fair on the track

Caveat-

That is track, slow on street is totally diff.

 

[Knifemaker]

How does a rider on front of you makes it dangerous if he is riding slower then you are????

I'm still not sure where you are "reading posts" that are saying this, but looking simply at your question above it seems just a matter of physics.

If the rider in front of you is going slower that you are..you will either :

1. Hit him

or

2. Pass him.

You can not follow a "slower rider" without you yourself going the same speed. If you are not overtaking him, and simply following behind him at a safe distance, than BOTH of you would have to be going the same speed, so thus, you are also a "slow rider"...

So I am not sure how safety is entered into this.

KM

 

[phil]

If there's anything I hate worse than a tailgater, it's a slow driver.

 

[Kevin Daly]

It's not "SLOW" riding that's a problem, it's "ERRATIC" and poorly controlled riding. Accelerating on the straights to catch up and then getting on the brakes in the corners is typical of the condition. I'm also pretty intolerant of someone continually darting up close behind me and dropping back when we're in a tighter group -- I watch my mirrors, but I don't want to have to put half of my concentration there when that sort of thing invades my safe riding space.

I agree. isnt this part of the definition of a squid? i mean in addition to no gear loose chain and flat tires...

 

[cougar8000]

Why so much concentration where I read it? I did read it here, let's just leave it at that. ok.

Bottom line is riding behind slower rider DOES NOT poses a danger to YOU.

It creates extra danger for a slow rider.

 

[TheAxeman]

I've ridden behind slower riders that I feel have put me in danger. If you are riding at 40 mph in a 55 mph zone with all other traffic around you moving at 55+ then you are the traffic hazard. Its not just excessive speed that kills. I personally find it more important to keep up with the flow of traffic than to stick with a rider who is riding dangerously slow.

 

[FJR@DTS]

On a related note, the slow rider, or any other vehicle traveling slower that you can pose a danger to you if you don't either pass or back off. I've seen several riders who can ride fast, corner well, then are following a truck going 60 mph and they are four feet behind him. How fast do you think your reflexes are, at that speed, your going to eat the vehicle in front of you if anything happens. Close formation riding is a skilled and dangerous activity where implicit trust must exist between all riders.

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

Why so much concentration where I read it? I did read it here, let's just leave it at that. ok.
Bottom line is riding behind slower rider DOES NOT poses a danger to YOU.

It creates extra danger for a slow rider.

Well, your views are consistent with those of the insurance industry.

Industry?

Is that really an industry? Are they really "industrious"? How can one be industrious if one doesn't produce anything?

o.k. to get back on track...

What I understand you to be saying is that slower drivers are not a hazard.

fine.

You’re entitled to your opinion.

In my opinion, your post (and its title) should have been in the form of a statement.

I misunderstood you to be interested in the views of others.

 

[cougar8000]

I've ridden behind slower riders that I feel have put me in danger. If you are riding at 40 mph in a 55 mph zone with all other traffic around you moving at 55+ then you are the traffic hazard. Its not just excessive speed that kills. I personally find it more important to keep up with the flow of traffic than to stick with a rider who is riding dangerously slow.

Axe, you are correct, I might have missed to state that we are going at least the speed limit.

 

[cougar8000]

You’re entitled to your opinion.
In my opinion, your post (and its title) should have been in the form of a statement.

I misunderstood you to be interested in the views of others.

I am interested in your view. I have listened to everyone's view. I just have a hard time understanding and you are not very convincing on how a rider that is going 5 miles above speed limit, but riding slower then what you want to ride at is creating a danger for you???

instead of measuring me to something that I am not, answer my question. okey

 

[wheatonFJR]

I don't see the danger thing...if I want to go faster...I safely pass them...as I do any other vehicle I want to pass. k:

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

I'm not trying to be convincing. It's the same as trying to explain to to someone in Minnesota why they should be in the right lane. You can't win.

My answer was "target fixation"

... and who's responsible for target fixation?

On the other hand, there are a lot of slow moving hazards out there.

That bright red brake light will haunt my dreams. My opportunity to pass didn't come until the end of road. Now, I just make sure I don't start out following him anymore.