What are the symptoms of a shot starter?

[want2ride]

I am watching this thread because I get the slow starter spin sometimes when my engine is hot. Battery age is not known as I bought the bike last year but the voltage reads 12.79. That appears to be a good battery so far. I have wondered if it is an electrical connection which is expanding with heat causing the problem. I should check all the connections for corrosion and dirt.

 

[Fred W]

Just as an FYI... battery voltage is not a particularly good gauge of it's capacity to make current. If the voltage is low, then that is definitely a problem, but just because it seems to charge up to 12.8 v doesn't mean it's good. You have to load test it.

As previously mentioned, the symptoms of a weak battery and that of a failing starter are very similar (unless you can measure the current drawn) Since a battery costs only ~ $100 and the labor involved just to get at the starter would be about 3 or 4 times more than that, I would always try another battery before digging into the engine bay,

 

[ionbeam]

...Since a battery costs only ~ $100 and the labor involved just to get at the starter would be about 3 or 4 times more than that...

+1 to the whole previous post. To which I will add, that if a battery fixes the perceived starter condition it is time to examine your charging system, riding habits and riding schedule to see why the battery needs to be replaced. Infrequent riding and short trips are ungood for batteries. With a Gen I it may also be good to look at the installed electrical accessories and see if they are excessively loading the charging system.

 

[luvtoride]

A new battery does fix the problem for a little while. I'm fairly certain that I pointed that out. I'm not one for short trips. Like I said, my bike has 109,000 miles on it. I don't have time for that many short trips. When I leave my driveway I am normally up for at least an 800 mile trip. I didn't ride this winter as I normally do. Like I said October was my last trip last year & I just charged the battery for a ride last weekend. Do you think that letting the bike sit that long without charging would render it dead... or not able to hold a normal charge?

 

[HotRodZilla]

A new battery does fix the problem for a little while. I'm fairly certain that I pointed that out. I'm not one for short trips. Like I said, my bike has 109,000 miles on it. I don't have time for that many short trips. When I leave my driveway I am normally up for at least an 800 mile trip. I didn't ride this winter as I normally do. Like I said October was my last trip last year & I just charged the battery for a ride last weekend. Do you think that letting the bike sit that long without charging would render it dead... or not able to hold a normal charge?

I do think more than a month was probably hard on your battery, just because of the maintenance draw the FJR has. What I don't know is exactly how long you can let it sit before it totals your battery. Alan or someone will come by with the math to show how long it should last, but what should happen and what do happen are two different things. You are correct that to a point, a new battery will hide a FUBAR starter. Happened twice in my wife's Expedition. Next time, I'll know better. Before spending money on even a new battery, I would test that starter and figure out EXACTLY what is taking a dump. It would make me grumpy to spend $100 on a new battery I don't need, especially if I spent that and then had to buy a new starter also. Good luck.

 

[RossKean]

The maintenance or parasitic draw on the FJR is pretty low assuming you don't have a problem or accessories that draw a bit more than the base (i.e. alarm system or LED voltmeter). Mine has sat for a couple of months or more (at room temperature) and still had plenty of juice to start. This winter, it sat for three months without being started (in a cold garage). There was ALMOST enough to start it. Mind you, this is my original battery in a 2007 with 149,000 miles.

 

[Fred W]

A new battery does fix the problem for a little while. I'm fairly certain that I pointed that out.

Yes, that happened exactly once, from what you said. You cannot draw conclusions from that. It could be that you got a crappy replacement battery.

This winter, it sat for three months without being started (in a cold garage). There was ALMOST enough to start it. Mind you, this is my original battery in a 2007 with 149,000 miles.

As an FYI... there is less internal discharge in a cold battery than one kept in a warm environment.

People get confused about this because when it is cold out an engine gets harder to turn over, and at the same time a battery can output less current when cold, so the cold engine is harder to start. But, if you will not be using or recharging a battery, taking the disconnected battery inside to a warmer climate doesn't accomplish anything good, and is actually going to allow it to discharge more internally.

PS - I know of no good way to test the starter of an FJR when it is still in the bike. If you can measure the starting current, and you know what the normal starting current was, you may be able to differentiate between a bad battery (lower than normal current) and a bad starter (higher than normal current). Maybe.

 

[RossKean]

Yes, cold storage is better for a lead-acid battery as long as it doesn't freeze. Lower self-discharge rate and less chemical deterioration. Our friends in hot climates do not typically get up to 10 years out of a motorcycle battery. The point about the cold garage I mentioned is that it was maybe 40 °F when I tried starting it. Much harder to get enough amps without drawing down the voltage; especially with an older battery with diminished capacity.

As far as testing the starter on the bike, I would probably measure current (and voltage) while boosting with a high CCA car battery. Assumes that the often stated 80 amp draw is OK and that the 100+ amp is no good is correct.

 

[Queensland Ken]

I diagnosed a crook starter motor on a forum members bike yesterday.

Had a new battery that measured 310 CCA on a drop test.

Battery terminal voltage 12.8 Volts

Voltage drop during starting was 10.3 Volts

Starting current was 185 Amps

Had an instantaneous starting current of 310 amps

The gents bike is "sluggish" slow starting and worse when hot, dash starting to dim but not resetting.

 

[luvtoride]

So yesterday I took the battery out of my bike & brought it to the auto parts store for testing & charging. Guy says battery is good so, he put it on to charge & I pick it up later today. We shall see how things go from here, I guess. From what I've read I need a known good battery b4 continuing diagnosis. Bob (Intech) will be checking it out with meters later this month.

 

[wfooshee]

Starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter starter

Tellin' ya, it's the starter. Buy, borrow, steal, beg a friend, whatever. Check the cranking amps!

That battery might have a shorter life, though, with the load it's having to deal with. Mine wasn't much good just a few weeks after my starter change.

 

[Mr. BR]

My '05 has done this a few times over the past 2 yrs of ownership (bike has 58K miles). Hot day (80F+), bike thoroughly hot, I make a quick stop for gas etc.... cranks slow/hesitates but it does start (dash has reset once or twice max). ALL other times, it cranks and starts normally. It's a fairly rare occurrence but I do think about it when the Wx is hot. I know my Battery is fine so my only plan is really to just spring for a new Starter some day and probably toss in a new relay just for good measure. I probably would have swapped it already if I didn't have to pull the #$%!!@ airbox and throttle bodies to do it. Not a big deal but just not in the mood to wrench lately (FYI: Partzilla.com lists the starter at $296.44).

Mr. BR

 

[Fred W]

Walt, ...and you know it's the starter based on what?

My '05 did the same thing each time the battery needed to be replaced. I have seen no evidence from Heidi that she has a bad starter yet. Bench testing a battery is an iffy thing. If it fails the battery is definitely bad. If it passes it might be good.

 

[ionbeam]

Walt, ...and you know it's the starter based on what?
My '05 did the same thing each time the battery needed to be replaced. I have seen no evidence from Heidi that she has a bad starter yet. Bench testing a battery is an iffy thing. If it fails the battery is definitely bad. If it passes it might be good.

Gosh, I'd have to agree with this ^^^^^^ The hardest thing to do is pull the starter and bench test it but it is definitive. The second easiest thing to do is pull the battery and bench test it, but the results aren't definitive. The easiest thing to do that is definitive is to charge the battery then put a clamp-on current meter on the battery cable and push the starter button. In seconds you would know exactly what is wrong.

 

[Intech]

I have an amp clamp, so we will check it out. I also have a spare starter solenoid just in case. I don't have a spare starter though! Well actually, I do. It's on a spare bike!

As I have told Heidi before, I wish we lived closer. We would have had it figured out already.

 

[El Toro Joe]

I have an amp clamp, so we will check it out. I also have a spare starter solenoid just in case. I don't have a spare starter though! Well actually, I do. It's on a spare bike!
As I have told Heidi before, I wish we lived closer. We would have had it figured out already.

She ain't that far away...

 

[luvtoride]

I really do not know if the battery had a full charge when this occurred THIS TIME. I have had the hot start issue for a few years now. Something finally just crapped the bed. A fully charged battery will be put in & tested this weekend. Past that, Bob will do the meter thing. I really want to get to the bottom of this. I have been dealing with this for a few years, now... never having full 100% failure until now.

 

[rushes]

I have an amp clamp, so we will check it out. I also have a spare starter solenoid just in case. I don't have a spare starter though! Well actually, I do. It's on a spare bike!
As I have told Heidi before, I wish we lived closer. We would have had it figured out already.

EZ fix. Make Heidi a smokin' deal on your 07.

 

[Intech]

I have an amp clamp, so we will check it out. I also have a spare starter solenoid just in case. I don't have a spare starter though! Well actually, I do. It's on a spare bike!
As I have told Heidi before, I wish we lived closer. We would have had it figured out already.

EZ fix. Make Heidi a smokin' deal on your 07.

I would give her a deal.

 

[El Toro Joe]

I have an amp clamp, so we will check it out. I also have a spare starter solenoid just in case. I don't have a spare starter though! Well actually, I do. It's on a spare bike!
As I have told Heidi before, I wish we lived closer. We would have had it figured out already.

EZ fix. Make Heidi a smokin' deal on your 07.

I would give her a deal.

Well...Heidi?