What does "Excellent Condition" really mean?

[kballowe]

What does "excellent" condition" really mean?

If I were buying a motorcycle in "excellent condition", I would expect that everything worked, as it should. That the paint would be in the 95% category and that there would be enough rubber to at least allow me to ride the beast home.

1. After some amount of telephone conversation and the receipt of about ten additional photos, we towed a trailer 350 miles to purchase a bike. All I can say is that the photos must have been taken "before" - because this bike was a turd. Road rash both sides, serious oil leak, missing and busted fairing panels, bald tires, trashed rims, and more. You get the idea.

2. Just yesterday - went to buy a bike that was "virtually showroom condition". Pffffft. The oil was black as tar and smelled heavily of fuel. The paint scheme looked original but I'm guessing that it had been wrecked at some point because it had several large areas where the paint was bubbling, and not just a bit. Chrome parts were bubbled in a few places. Header pipes had heavy pits and chrome flaking heavily. Brake/clutch fluids were virtually black, and after application of the front brake, it might as well have been the emergency brake because the bike was stuck there. "Oh yeah" he says "it probably needs new brake pads".... Tires were marginal and heavily weather cracked. Also heavily weather cracked were all of the brake lines.

OK, I'm off of my soap box now.

Thank-you for listening.

 

[07FJRVegas]

Almost all forum members I've dealt with are straight up and very accurate in the description of the item / bike they have for sale; unfortunately, there are a couple that have proved this wrong to me ... you get them in any crowd.

 

[rickysnickers]

I can relate. I've been on the hunt for a '55-'57 Chevy truck. I looked at one that was "rust free." HA! I dragged my wife with me. From a distance it looked great. The closer you got the more rust you could see. The chrome grill had spots of rust on it. The paint was bubbling in numerous places all over the truck. My non-car guy wife even said, "Look at all the rust on this thing."

 

[Old Guy]

It's frustrating for sure. Do they think you won't notice? Or do they think after pulling a trailer 350 miles you'll just buy it anyway to keep from wasting the trip?

It's not always possible, but before driving that far, i'd see if there's a forum member that would be willing to eyeball it for me. I've done that for ZRX members on a couple of occasions.

 

[ionbeam]

On the one hand --

Excellent - 3% of all cars we value
Looks new and is in excellent mechanical condition

• Has never had any paint touch-ups and/or bodywork
• Does not need reconditioning
• The engine compartment is clean and free of leaks
• Is free of rust
• The body and interior are free of wear or visible defects
• Wheels are flawless
• All tires match and are like new
• Has a clean title history and will pass a safety and smog inspection
• Has complete and verifiable service records

Excellent

Most motorcycles in the excellent category were originally advertised as perfect. Machines in excellent condition typically have a low mileage; they do not have every original part on them for example a fender may have been repainted or the tires have been replaced. But over all they have no damage to their paintwork and they are mechanically sound.

Judging condition on the other hand --

 

[Bugnatr]

Hey Alan, a few pops of Patron helps the beers go down.

And man she's looking good now!

I'm always amazed at what folks call excellent condition.

 

[BkerChuck]

Having worked for a dealership several years we see this quite often.

All original=still has all it's fluids from the day it shipped 12 years ago!

Never been wrecked= Oh, that includes dropped?

Full maintenance records= 1 Wal Mart receipt for car oil

 

[Old Guy]

Driven only on Sunday at the local drag strip

 

[BuckeyeFJR]

I try to undersell and over deliver, and I'm very careful, about using good, very good, excellent, or mint unless that is the case. I find most buyers read into descriptions and can be disappointed if something was described as excellent, but has obvious flaws.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

I learned whatever condition they say it's in it's "usually" in worse shape.

I work for a Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealer here in So Cal and went to a customers house to bring back a trade in that was in "Average" condition......I knew I was in trouble.

I've driven hundreds of cars very few scare me to drive, this one did!

 

[Spud]

Something they teach in law school:

Puffing

An opinion or judgment that is not made as a representation of fact.

Puffing is generally an expression or exaggeration made by a salesperson or found in an advertisement that concerns the quality of goods offered for sale. It presents opinions rather than facts and is usually not considered a legally binding promise. Such statements as "this car is in good shape" and "your wife will love this watch" constitute puffing.

Puffing is common when selling used items.

Not to be confused with "fluffing", an obscure profession in the San Fernando Valley....

 

[HelzBelz]

you know, I feel ya on this. It's called Scruples. Some people have them, some people think they have them and try their best, and many people don't have them.

I never sell anything that I have any doubt of the condition, without disclosing EVERYTHING I CAN. I once sold my first and only suzuki, a 2001 Suzuki Bandit. Absolutely MINT condition. 900 miles. The guy called me back a month later and told me that one of the fork seals was leaking, and Suzuki wouldn't honor the warranty , as he was the second owner, although less than 8 months old. I called the dealer to discuss briefly. Then I sent the guy 100 bucks, with my apologies.

(hint, if you see me selling something, buy it.. It is usually better than described, and usually worth 25-50% more than what I am asking. I am embarrassed to sell things that are less than perfect, so I have a garage full of "junk").

But I do believe KARMA is a *****. I just bought a pair of Cortech GX Sport pants on Ebay. Described as nearly perfect, they had had a small hole in each knee of about 2-3 mm each. OTHERWISE MINT. I paid $20, plus shipping. No one else bid, because the pictures looked like poop on the auction.Textile pants are tough with camera phones, flashes, lighting etc. When I received the pants, they were absolutely in perfect condition besides the two large pin holes. so I sent the guy $10 more because I appreciated the deal. (*pats self on back)

 

[radiummadman]

excellent means that if the seller were the buyer he would gladly pay the price. If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

 

[Bounce]

I would accept another standard of definitions based on the long-accepted use of firearms conditions. Certain wording would need updating (bikes don't have muzzles, etc.). Some people may want to fiddle with their use of the terms but these seem pretty good IMO.

• NEW: Not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production.
• PERFECT: In New condition in every respect. (Jim's note - in my experience, many collectors & dealers use "As New" to describe this condition).
  
• EXCELLENT: New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).
• VERY GOOD: In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.
• GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.
• FAIR: In safe working condition but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments which should be indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable.

from: https://www.nramuseum.org/gun-info-research/evaluating-firearms-condition.aspx

[based on the high number of notes I've seen from folks since getting my 2003 FJR, there would be a huge number of bodged-up (or ignored) repairs that would result in only a FAIR rating of many FJRs. Yet another reason I recoil a little inside when I read a recommendation to just shake off the damage to fairings, etc. and keep riding a boogered up $13,000.00+ bike.]

 

[NMRoadRunner]

There are two things I won't buy used. Guns and motorcycles. You never know what they've been through.

 

[no rain]

Referring to the original post, someone who would mislead someone else into driving 350 miles to see their turd is among the most selfish of a$$holes.

 

[kballowe]

UPDATE :

Bike #2, above.

This guy has been ringing my phone off the hook and leaving me voicemail and text messages. Thank-you, the inventor of caller ID !

It seems that he's "tired of dealing with craigslist idiots" and is willing to reduce the price of the bike if I have "cash".

Wow.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled program.

 

[Old Guy]

UPDATE :
Bike #2, above.

This guy has been ringing my phone off the hook and leaving me voicemail and text messages. Thank-you, the inventor of caller ID !

It seems that he's "tired of dealing with craigslist idiots" and is willing to reduce the price of the bike if I have "cash".

Wow.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled program.

You may have to talk to him to get him to leave you alone.

 

[HelzBelz]

believe it or not, there are people who do not understand how travel costs time and money and fuel. That doesn't matter for them. God Bless the idiots, someone needs to take care of them. Hopefully other idiots with money will. (probably do already)