Why Harley's need ABS brakes

[LDRydr]

I'm not going to claim I know all the details about this accident that happened locally here this past Friday. But I do know it was a group of Harley Davidson's, it was during the first rain we'd had in quite a while, and it was coming down pretty heavy. The speed limit in the area is right after it changes from 60mph to 65mph. I can't help but think ABS would have helped change the outcome, and is one of the reasons for me moving from a Harley to my FJR. FYI, Battle Ground is near where I live. RIP Thomas E. Joseph.

Wednesday, October 03, 2007

A Battle Ground man has died from injuries sustained in a Friday motorcycle accident. Thomas E. Joseph, 60, died Tuesday night at OHSU Hospital in Portland. Cause of his death was not available.

The motorcycle accident happened on Interstate 84 near Rooster Rock shortly after 11 a.m. Friday. Joseph and a group of eight riders were traveling east on the interstate and approached slower traffic, according to information provided by the Oregon State Police­.

Joseph and another rider, G. Richard Bogdahn, 59, of Black River Falls, Wis., put on their brakes too fast and lost control, according to OSP. Joseph was taken by helicopter to OHSU. Bogdahn sustained nonlife-threatening injuries.

 

[twowheelnut]

I'm going to kinda agree with that conclusion of yours, LDR... Given the amount of typical experience a lot of the Harley riders have and the propensity of which the rear wheel locks up on Harley's, ABS would not be a bad thing here.

 

[odot]

Even with abs, I still take it really easy when it's raining out.

 

[James Burleigh]

One word: High Visual Horizon.

Um, make that three words.... :blink:

In my day-to-day commuting, keeping 3 or more seconds in front of me and moving around turns and curves at a speed allowing me to stop when I encounter a sea of brake lights, is my No. 1 safety rule.

When I was taking my brother to the airport last Sunday on a relatively sparse freeway, I was in the no. 2 freeway lane going around a long, wide, sweeping curve to the left. Suddenly we are passed in the no. 1 lane on our left by a bike going, I estimated, 110 MPH. The dude violated a ton of common-sense, safety, and legal boundaries. But the stupidest one in my opinion is that he didn't apply JB's No. 1 Safety Rule. I take that sweeper every morning, and I often have a break in traffic and can roll on the throttle. But I ALWAYS presume there's a stalled semi or a sea of brake lights just around the corner. That dude was diving in at a speed that left -1000% safety margin. He survived this time, and then I uttered with a smile: "Yeah baby!"

One more word: in rain, make that at least 5 seconds.

 

[RatoneMuerto]

I'm not going to claim I know all the details about this accident that happened locally here this past Friday. But I do know it was a group of Harley Davidson's, it was during the first rain we'd had in quite a while, and it was coming down pretty heavy. The speed limit in the area is right after it changes from 60mph to 65mph. I can't help but think ABS would have helped change the outcome, and is one of the reasons for me moving from a Harley to my FJR. FYI, Battle Ground is near where I live. RIP Thomas E. Joseph.
Wednesday, October 03, 2007

A Battle Ground man has died from injuries sustained in a Friday motorcycle accident. Thomas E. Joseph, 60, died Tuesday night at OHSU Hospital in Portland. Cause of his death was not available.

The motorcycle accident happened on Interstate 84 near Rooster Rock shortly after 11 a.m. Friday. Joseph and a group of eight riders were traveling east on the interstate and approached slower traffic, according to information provided by the Oregon State Police­.

Joseph and another rider, G. Richard Bogdahn, 59, of Black River Falls, Wis., put on their brakes too fast and lost control, according to OSP. Joseph was taken by helicopter to OHSU. Bogdahn sustained nonlife-threatening injuries.

I just wonder if he was the typical HD rider that believes in minimalist protective gear.I never wish death on anyone but often wonder if they have a death wish

 

[TriggerT]

Sure ABS helps, but rider EXPERIENCE is what is needed. One of the basic rules of riding, is that if it hasn't rained in a while, you need to be extra careful when it finally decides to rain. Actually, good rule of thumb is to always be extra careful at the beginning of a rain storm. That is when the roads are the slickest, as most people who have ridden for more than 1 season have learned.

I wonder if he had much experience riding in the rain. This is not meant as a bash on Harley riders, but I almost NEVER see them riding is anything other than ideal weather. Problem is that when you get caught by surprise, you are then ill prepared.

"7-P Rule" Proper Prior Preparation, Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

 

[dhalen32]

LDRydr:

Probably more fair to lay blame on the riders than on the machines. Riding too fast for conditions, improper following distance and inept application of brakes sound like the cause of this fatal crash.

Dave

P.S. H-D has made ABS standard on some of their high end models this year and it is optional on a number of others in the Touring and V-Rod series of bikes. Other than BMW I think they now offer ABS on more models than all of the Japanese manufacturers put together.

 

[wfooshee]

None of us were there, so it's all speculation, but "First rain in a while" always means greasy or muddy surface. "Coming down pretty heavy" could mean they rode past their visibility, like the hyper-bike above. It's even possible somebody swerved into their path, something the police may not know about. And when I see something about un-geared Harley riders crashing, there's always the thought in the back of my mind that for some reason so many of those guys think the right foot is THE brake.

 

[Scotty]

Accidents in the rain have more to do with rider skills than what kind of bike they are on. I ride a non ABS Harley and the brakes are easily modulated. My wife has a V-Star and it is so easy to lock up the rear or front it is frightening(until you figure it out). I also have an ABS 1300 AE and it is excellent in hard stops but it won't help much if I am not looking far enough ahead. I see poor riders on sport bikes, hogs,etc. No manufacturer has a monopoly on poor riding skills. Given the choice I would always opt for ABS.

 

[twowheelnut]

Accidents in the rain have more to do with rider skills than what kind of bike they are on. I ride a non ABS Harley and the brakes are easily modulated. My wife has a V-Star and it is so easy to lock up the rear or front it is frightening(until you figure it out). I also have an ABS 1300 AE and it is excellent in hard stops but it won't help much if I am not looking far enough ahead. I see poor riders on sport bikes, hogs,etc. No manufacturer has a monopoly on poor riding skills. Given the choice I would always opt for ABS.

Yep and well said.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Hmmm wasn't there a big ass bustin session here regarding excessive speed and rain recently?

Seems like speed wasn't an issue on the "heavy" FJR.

Reno?

:jester:

 

[Hit the Road Jack]

It never ceases to amaze me how the majority of motorcyclists do not know how to respond to a 'panic stop'! There seems to be some unwritten fear of using the front brake. I recently witnessed some dude totally flat-spot the rear tire on his VFR while slowing for a traffic light (camera corner intersection). He stayed right-side up and made the stop, but looked pretty silly sitting next to the cagers in a cloud of his own tire smoke!

 

[twowheelnut]

It never ceases to amaze me how the majority of motorcyclists do not know how to respond to a 'panic stop'! There seems to be some unwritten fear of using the front brake. I recently witnessed some dude totally flat-spot the rear tire on his VFR while slowing for a traffic light (camera corner intersection). He stayed right-side up and made the stop, but looked pretty silly sitting next to the cagers in a cloud of his own tire smoke!

The answer is that the vast majority of riders have little experience. More than not, these are the ones you read about.

 

[Rev Ed]

I know that stretch of I - 84 very well. Lived in Portland for 9 years while finishing up my Bachelor's degree and then attending seminary. I still drive it every other weekend to pick up my kids in Camas. One of the wicked things about that stretch is the ruts from the winter studded tires. The water pools in them and can send a cage sideways in half a heartbeat. It is also tons-o-fun when a semi on the other side hits those things and sends a waterfall into your lane. Absolutely no visibility.

No need for me to repeat the wisdom already mentioned. I'm sure our hearts and prayers go out to the rider's family and friends.

 

[v65]

The answer is that the vast majority of riders have little experience. More than not, these are the ones you read about.

Maybe, maybe not. My family all ride HD's, I used to join them on their club rides (40+ bikes). They have a culture that the front brake is evil, they prefer to lock up the rears, it's like the load pipes save lifes business. These guys have been riding for 25+ years, haven't learned yet.

 

[Rev Ed]

Not to harp on one brand of rider but I too have been amazed by the, for lack of better term, ignorance concerning the proper usage of the front brake by HD riders. Some of the remarks have been downright laughable-- "if you lock up the front end in a turn you'll dump your bike" or my personal favorite: "If you use the front brake you'll flip the bike over." Maybe they have seen too many of the hooligan antics (stoppies) on DVD; however, I have heard this stuff from many of them for over 20 years now.

It would be interesting to see if there are stats on how many HD riders take a motorcycle saftey course in comparison to other brands/types. Makes you wonder if they know what linked brakes are?

 

[Groo]

"If you use the front brake you'll flip the bike over."

Was talking to a co-worker who rode as a teenager, but hasn't recently on Friday about bikes and the MSF class, and he used almost those exact words... Should have seen his eyes when I told him that 70-80% of braking is FRONT brake, and only 20-30% rear...

 

[Scotty]

Not to harp on one brand of rider but I too have been amazed by the, for lack of better term, ignorance concerning the proper usage of the front brake by HD riders. Some of the remarks have been downright laughable-- "if you lock up the front end in a turn you'll dump your bike" or my personal favorite: "If you use the front brake you'll flip the bike over." Maybe they have seen too many of the hooligan antics (stoppies) on DVD; however, I have heard this stuff from many of them for over 20 years now.
It would be interesting to see if there are stats on how many HD riders take a motorcycle saftey course in comparison to other brands/types. Makes you wonder if they know what linked brakes are?

Can you tell me how you and your bike do when you lock up the front tire in a turn? Help us inexperienced riders. Perhaps you can explain the laws of physics with a locked fron and a rea moving in a turn. Please set us straight. :glare:

 

[wfooshee]

Can you tell me how you and your bike do when you lock up the front tire in a turn? Help us inexperienced riders. Perhaps you can explain the laws of physics with a locked fron and a rea moving in a turn. Please set us straight. :glare:

Easy. Don''t lock it up in a turn.

Not the smart-ass comment it sounds like. You should take the question to an instructor, as the mere act of asking the question shows that you need to. In the MSF course they teach panic braking. Hard stops are in about half the exercises of the second day. The exam includes a measured hard stop, approaching a line with hands on the bars, NOT covering the levers, at the line stop hard and shift down to first, put the left foot down on stopping. To pass, bike must be in first and stopped within a given distance. They also teach a turning panic. First thing you do is sit the bike up straight, THEN nail the brakes. It's emphasized over and over: BRAKING IS DONE IN A STRAIGHT LINE.

That said, you have to grab a LOT of front brake to lock it up on any bike I've been on, unless the surface is no good.

The process of grabbing the brake is a squeeze, not a grab. If the front locks, let go and squeeze again. If the rear locks, leave it locked. The bike can go sideways and unlocking the rear can put you off in a high-side.