Why I decided to Start Doing the Work Myself

[RadioHowie]

From my wretched history, here's a thumbnail sketch of why I don't darken the dealer's door:

One day, dealer tells me "They all sound like that...tweak the idle speed up and ride..."

Three days later, my FJR airmails 12 of the 16 valves in the cylinder head because of failing(failed) Cam Chain tensioner.

Ask me if I will ever take mine back to the dealer..................go ahead -- ask away!

Hmmmmmm, no takers???

 

[majicmaker]

From my wretched history, here's a thumbnail sketch of why I don't darken the dealer's door:
One day, dealer tells me "They all sound like that...tweak the idle speed up and ride..."

Three days later, my FJR airmails 12 of the 16 valves in the cylinder head because of failing(failed) Cam Chain tensioner.

Ask me if I will ever take mine back to the dealer..................go ahead -- ask away!

Hmmmmmm, no takers???

So..... I'm guessing the answer is NO Huh.

 

[BigOgre]

Here's my tale, but I blame myself.

I knew for awhile that my suspension needed servicing but for various reasons I kept putting it off. Finally last year I decided that I'd dig into it at the end of the season. After researching all the great info here on the Forum, I gathered my parts list and went to see my friend/fellow FJR rider/long time motorcycle industry employee who at that time was working as a service manager for a local dealer (since moved on). After pulling up all the part numbers and what-not he says, "You know, why don't you just let me take care of these for you? I'll only have to charge you a few bucks more and you won't have to deal with the mess or dicking around with special tools or anything. Just bring me the forks and I'll get them right back to you in a day or two. Some things just ain't worth doing yourself."

"Yeah but (friend), I know you're not going to be doing them. I don't know the guys you got working back there."

"Don't worry. I'll have Billy do them. I trust him with my own bike."

"Umm . . . ok." (said hesitantly).

Dropped off the forks and then Sandy, as in Superstorm, paid us a visit causing the dealer to be closed for three weeks and then, even after re-opening, nothing was business as usual for some time. Think I picked up the forks sometime around the holidays, maybe afterwards, and took my time installing them over the winter. Didn't get to test them until late March. And if everything turned out fine, I wouldn't be adding to this tread, right? See here for what was found.

I like working on my own vehicles. There's plenty of good reasons for doing so, even more so when it comes to your own motorcycles. I wish I had went with my instinct on this one.

 

[Fred W]

The scary part about the above scenario was that the shop made the ridiculous mistake of not adjusting the spacer length when installing new aftermarket springs. Why they did not recognize that something wasn't right when they had to compress the springs by >50mm just to thread the nut on the top of the spacer suggests that they do not have a clue as to how a motorcycle suspension works.

Not only did it cause the bike's forks to work very badly (nearly to the point of being a danger to ride that way) it was also dangerous when we disassembled their screwed up work as the excessive tension caused the lock nut to shoot off the end of the shaft like a projectile when we loosened it. Luckily neither of us got hit with it.

Nope, there are very few things that I would entrust to a local bike shop's mechanic. YMMV

 

[FJRMGM]

Way to go!
I feel sorry for those who either can't, or won't, do their own work. There must be lots of 'em, as the dealerships always seem busy.

there are - the ability to be a mechanic is totally lost on a lot of people these days.

 

[ionbeam]

...I feel sorry for those who either can't, or won't, do their own work. There must be lots of 'em, as the dealerships always seem busy.

there are - the ability to be a mechanic is totally lost on a lot of people these days.

Old Days:

Big old vehicles running leaded gas where Sunoco could pump 103 octane. Gus would go stick his nose up the exhaust while Billy-Bob turned all kinds of screws on the carb until Gus says it smells good. Zeb would take the foil liner out of his Marlboro pack and gap the points. The front drum brake pads always looked good because you never used them. There were 3 fuses and at any given time only 1/3 of the electrics were working but diagnostics could be done using a 1156 and some wire. The speedometer cable wasn't expected to make it much past 3.5k miles, but it didn't matter because that was about the life expectancy before you had to do a major rebuilding of the two valve push rod engine. If you had a Jap-Crap 2-smoker you knew that a power loss either meant you needed to fiddle with the reed valves or the crankcase gasket was leaking. As long as the spring didn't break the kick starter would get 'er to run and really didn't care much what the battery voltage was. It might take a half hour and a ritualistic sequence of actions but it would run. The gas tank had a reserve so you didn't have to guess at how far you could go.

Modern Daze:

If you are lucky, you can plug your ECU into a laptop to help with diagnostics. Unfortunately with some brands like Yamaha you can't do this. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

You need to understand how a TPS works, how pressure, crank, cylinder identification and timing sensors work. You need to know what a reference voltage is and what isolated grounds are. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

Separating fuel injector problems from Coil over Plug ignition problems can be tricky. There are at least 10 fuses feeding all kinds of electrical systems that now take 2 pages of schematics to illustrate. Some brands are using single wire control systems with decoding at the switches. You need to understand serial communications and power devices with addresses. There are circuits with multi pole relays that interact with other relays with circuits that have to be understood. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

To measure the coolant temp a sensor driven by a reference voltage is read by the ECU where the analog voltage gets converted to a digital value. The ECU performs math on the digital voltage value, applies more math to filter the signal and converts that into a temperature value. This value gets converted to a serial data stream which gets sent to the Meter Assembly where the serial address is decoded and the value read by the Meter Assembly, the Meter Assembly then displays the value as blocks on a LCD panel. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

The brakes are linked front to rear, the various pads in the calipers have different activation systems. All connected through an ABS system. With wheel sensors, and a big accumulator and pressure regulator. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

The engine power leaves on a bevel gear, turns a universal joint which turns a drive shaft which turns a pinion gear. Some of the gears need to have specific lash adjustments if taken apart. There are clever sets of seals and springs that are intended to keep the fluids inside. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

The speedometer reading gets a signal that starts from a wheel ABS sensor. The signal goes to the ABS ECU and then to the ECU. The the ECU reads its own spark timing and converts these two values to a serial signal that is sent to the Meter Assembly where they get decoded to drive a pair of servo motors to turn the needles so you can read speed and RPM. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

Thank goodness that my oil filter only takes a miniature wrench and a standard socket. The air filter only takes a few hex wrenches, a phillips screw driver and the removal of a dozen or so panel fasteners to access it so you can swap it with a clean filter -- unless you have an AE.

And, with that I will go down to the garage and tell my bundle of technology how much I luv it because it makes all the pain of an EE and physics degree so worth it

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[MCRIDER007]

You don't need an EE degree to do that work.....you just need an extended warranty.....YES!!!

 

[ionbeam]

You don't need an EE degree to do that work.....you just need an extended warranty.....YES!!!

So, you aren't doing the work yourself?

 

[MCRIDER007]

You don't need an EE degree to do that work.....you just need an extended warranty.....YES!!!

So, you aren't doing the work yourself?

Not that work.....just what is not covered by the warranty.

 

[TripperMike]

...I feel sorry for those who either can't, or won't, do their own work. There must be lots of 'em, as the dealerships always seem busy.

there are - the ability to be a mechanic is totally lost on a lot of people these days.

Old Days:

Big old vehicles running leaded gas where Sunoco could pump 103 octane. Gus would go stick his nose up the exhaust while Billy-Bob turned all kinds of screws on the carb until Gus says it smells good. Zeb would take the foil liner out of his Marlboro pack and gap the points. The front drum brake pads always looked good because you never used them. There were 3 fuses and at any given time only 1/3 of the electrics were working but diagnostics could be done using a 1156 and some wire. The speedometer cable wasn't expected to make it much past 3.5k miles, but it didn't matter because that was about the life expectancy before you had to do a major rebuilding of the two valve push rod engine. If you had a Jap-Crap 2-smoker you knew that a power loss either meant you needed to fiddle with the reed valves or the crankcase gasket was leaking. As long as the spring didn't break the kick starter would get 'er to run and really didn't care much what the battery voltage was. It might take a half hour and a ritualistic sequence of actions but it would run. The gas tank had a reserve so you didn't have to guess at how far you could go.

Modern Daze:

If you are lucky, you can plug your ECU into a laptop to help with diagnostics. Unfortunately with some brands like Yamaha you can't do this. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

You need to understand how a TPS works, how pressure, crank, cylinder identification and timing sensors work. You need to know what a reference voltage is and what isolated grounds are. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

Separating fuel injector problems from Coil over Plug ignition problems can be tricky. There are at least 10 fuses feeding all kinds of electrical systems that now take 2 pages of schematics to illustrate. Some brands are using single wire control systems with decoding at the switches. You need to understand serial communications and power devices with addresses. There are circuits with multi pole relays that interact with other relays with circuits that have to be understood. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

To measure the coolant temp a sensor driven by a reference voltage is read by the ECU where the analog voltage gets converted to a digital value. The ECU performs math on the digital voltage value, applies more math to filter the signal and converts that into a temperature value. This value gets converted to a serial data stream which gets sent to the Meter Assembly where the serial address is decoded and the value read by the Meter Assembly, the Meter Assembly then displays the value as blocks on a LCD panel. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

The brakes are linked front to rear, the various pads in the calipers have different activation systems. All connected through an ABS system. With wheel sensors, and a big accumulator and pressure regulator. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

The engine power leaves on a bevel gear, turns a universal joint which turns a drive shaft which turns a pinion gear. Some of the gears need to have specific lash adjustments if taken apart. There are clever sets of seals and springs that are intended to keep the fluids inside. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

The speedometer reading gets a signal that starts from a wheel ABS sensor. The signal goes to the ABS ECU and then to the ECU. The the ECU reads its own spark timing and converts these two values to a serial signal that is sent to the Meter Assembly where they get decoded to drive a pair of servo motors to turn the needles so you can read speed and RPM. I have no idea why more people don't do their own work.

Thank goodness that my oil filter only takes a miniature wrench and a standard socket. The air filter only takes a few hex wrenches, a phillips screw driver and the removal of a dozen or so panel fasteners to access it so you can swap it with a clean filter -- unless you have an AE.

And, with that I will go down to the garage and tell my bundle of technology how much I luv it because it makes all the pain of an EE and physics degree so worth it

.

.

.

.

.

Don't do that ever again Ionbeam.......

my head hurts now.

 

[ionbeam]

..Don't do that ever again Ionbeam.......my head hurts now.

 

[Fred W]

You don't need an EE degree to do that work.....you just need an extended warranty.....YES!!!

So, you aren't doing the work yourself?

Not that work.....just what is not covered by the warranty.

When you own a superior 1st gen, that would include everything.

..Don't do that ever again Ionbeam.......my head hurts now.

Hey Professor... Don't you have some quality to control or something?

Now seriously, there are some parts of the modern bike (and I include the FJR in that category) that are beyond the capability of some, perhaps many, owners. ECUs, Fuel Injection, those silly auto clutching mechanisms on some 2nd gens...

But the recent findings we made on Mike M (BigOgre)'s suspension is a perfect example of the kind of relatively routine maintenance that the paid bone-heads at the shops will screw up time and again, but that average Joe FJR owner could probably think his way though just by using common sense.

Yeah, yeah... I know that common sense isn't all that common these days, but I have to figure that the average FJR owner is already so far above average for having made such an intelligent choice to begin with...

 

[yamafitter]

An old tech that I used to work with had been shocked so many times he could lick his thumb place it on a terminal and tell you within 2 volts what the DC voltage rating is. The new Gen III does not have the display diagnostics anymore and so far I believe only the dealers have the diagnostic software available so if the bike stops and there is an error code displayed you are pretty much FUBAR.

When I took my AE to GP Suspensions for shock service my bike became known by the tech there as the FJR from hell since my AE had a Wilbers with a remote reservoir that required taking apart most of the rear of the bike to access. What is normally a 3 hour service job to remove, rebuild and re-install a shock turned into a 3/4 day nightmare and that was for someone that does motorcycle suspensions for a living.

When I originally got the shock I tried doing the install following the instructions given and on a "normal" bike it would not have been an issue. It became very obvious very quickly I was in over my head so I backed out and gave it to my local dealer to figure it out. It was worth the money to me to keep my sanity since I had no idea how I was going to make that work.

This last winter after watching the folks at GP I took on the job of removing and replacing the shock since the shock needed a rebuild and I wanted to lube up all the rear suspension points. It took a number of days and there was some head scratching but in the end it got done. Electronic diagnostics on the other hand without proper equipment and training is reduced to nothing more than a guessing game and swapping parts and that can get expensive.

A good friend of mine Toni Sharpless was sponsored on the World Endurance Series for two years. She had been used to working on the bike but this time at Suzuka, Yamaha had supplied full factory support. There were a number of Japanese techs working on the bike. Toni had picked up something and was going to do something to the bike when the head tech who didn't speak that much english pointed to the throttle and told her that as the rider that was the only thing she was allowed to touch on the bike.

 

[ionbeam]

I should have prefaced my previous post with "insert <Andy Rooney voice>". Most of the items I posted are accurate, but are not actually related to basic maintenance or farkling.

Seriously, there are a lot of maintenance things that a typical owner can do without a major investment in tools. The only real funky hardware on the FJR are the torx and security torx bolts plus a few oversize nuts. I might suggest a set of metric sweat towels Even most of the aftermarket items are within the scope of the average owner. If you are just learning how to wrench, a good friend or Forumite to walk you through some of the processes will help a lot. As 'fitter points out, one of the hardest parts of wrenching is to recognize when you are over your head and it's not yet too late to recover.

 

[HelzBelz]

You don't need an EE degree to do that work.....you just need an extended warranty.....YES!!!

Tell me what is covered by YES?

I have Yes until next year on my 2009. They wouldn't cover my leaking swing arm seals (wear item). Or my grinding shifting problems (wear item).

I assumed if either of these things would be covered in normal warranty, then why would they not cover them during the term of the YES contract.

For the life of me, I can't think of anything that would be covered by YES. Everything on a motorcycle is a "wear" item.

I did get a new Instrument cluster, but that dealer had fight hard for that. (the dot on the speedo meter melted, but everything worked fine, at 9200 miles. I didn't care, but the dealer wanted to do it)

 

[MCRIDER007]

You don't need an EE degree to do that work.....you just need an extended warranty.....YES!!!

Tell me what is covered by YES?

I have Yes until next year on my 2009. They wouldn't cover my leaking swing arm seals (wear item). Or my grinding shifting problems (wear item).

I assumed if either of these things would be covered in normal warranty, then why would they not cover them during the term of the YES contract.

For the life of me, I can't think of anything that would be covered by YES. Everything on a motorcycle is a "wear" item.

I did get a new Instrument cluster, but that dealer had fight hard for that. (the dot on the speedo meter melted, but everything worked fine, at 9200 miles. I didn't care, but the dealer wanted to do it)

The only thing that has ever gone bad on my 08 was a fuel pump that decided to quit working 3 weeks before the YES expired...and it was covered. My comments about YES were mostly directed at ionbeam's very valid comments on how hard it is to fix electronic problems.

 

[HelzBelz]

You don't need an EE degree to do that work.....you just need an extended warranty.....YES!!!

Tell me what is covered by YES?I have Yes until next year on my 2009. They wouldn't cover my leaking swing arm seals (wear item). Or my grinding shifting problems (wear item).

I assumed if either of these things would be covered in normal warranty, then why would they not cover them during the term of the YES contract.

For the life of me, I can't think of anything that would be covered by YES. Everything on a motorcycle is a "wear" item.

I did get a new Instrument cluster, but that dealer had fight hard for that. (the dot on the speedo meter melted, but everything worked fine, at 9200 miles. I didn't care, but the dealer wanted to do it)

The only thing that has ever gone bad on my 08 was a fuel pump that decided to quit working 3 weeks before the YES expired...and it was covered. My comments about YES were mostly directed at ionbeam's very valid comments on how hard it is to fix electronic problems.

My comment was truly off topic, and meant for another thread probably. I apologize for the Hijack. I will search then maybe start a new thread.

 

[FJRMGM]

I do as much work on my bike as I can because it's just so damned hard to find a competent mechanic I really trust.

So much shop work now is all about speed, speed, speed and that ain't right sometimes!