Hello Kitty
Well-known member
THanks Willie, I'll send you an email from home later on. I look forward to checking it out.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Why Streets and Trips over MapSource
- Thread starter Willie
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Willie
Well-known member
OK My post above has a Click Reference to Webshots, which seems to be pissy about how you want to show your pictures. So I am skinning the cat a different way. The link is to my blog with the above picture in it, Simply click the picture, which will open an new window and it will supersize to a more readable picture of what the spreadsheet looks like. Hmmm maybe I will do the instructions on my blog..yeah thats the ticket.
And now for FOR THE CLICKY HERE
Willie
Another option for you LD bonus hunters is to use GoogleMaps (and the full power of the intarwebs) to find the locations and then use the built in GoogleMaps feature to send it to your gps.
I have not actually tried this, but I stumbled across this feature when I was trying to actually do something useful with the routes you can easily pre-plan in googlemaps, besides just going thru the GmaptoGpx convert them to an endless series of waypoints.
There is a built in feature there to send data to a garmin gps, but what it ends up sending you isn't the planned route, it's just the flag locations at start or end of your route, and it send you these points as "favorites" (aka Waypoints in Garmin speak.
Seems perfect for finding and scoring bonus locations.
I have not actually tried this, but I stumbled across this feature when I was trying to actually do something useful with the routes you can easily pre-plan in googlemaps, besides just going thru the GmaptoGpx convert them to an endless series of waypoints.
There is a built in feature there to send data to a garmin gps, but what it ends up sending you isn't the planned route, it's just the flag locations at start or end of your route, and it send you these points as "favorites" (aka Waypoints in Garmin speak.
Seems perfect for finding and scoring bonus locations.
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Have a backup and know it well. Some rallies locate in remote places. Depending on the interwebs to be available all the time is asking for trouble.
Willie
Well-known member
I have used this feature in Google before. One needs to be careful with this. Sometimes it is spot on and other times it is merely an estimate. I frequently use this to locate National Landmarks and transfer directly to the unit as WP's.
Willie
Jeff Earls
Well-known member
Wordstar? I still use vi.
And get the hell off my lawn.
Anyway, Matt hit most of the good points. In terms of rally usage, S&T has the disadvantage of requiring "helper" programs to get your waypoints and routes into a Garmin GPS. My understanding is that this has changed with the latest release but that's water under the bridge.
Mapsource has no such problems as it works seamlessly with Garmin's hardware. It is also working on the same map data as on your GPS unit. That means your routes will match up and you won't get surprised when trying to import a S&T route and Garmin has to recalculate it. Trust me, when you are looking for minutes of margin over days of rallying those misalignments can burn you in planning.
:lol: I'm one of the few engineers where I work that can (and often do) still vi edit. Just easier to do from a C-shell.
Sort of. S&T can transfer its routes to the GPS (via a USB cable) but it does so only as the generic .gpx (GPs eXchange) file format. Anyone that has been messing around with Garmin routing for very long will come to realize that there are several advantages to using Garmin's proprietary .gdb (Garmin Data Base) format .
One of the more valuable advantages is that, when placing route shaping points in Mapsource, if you put one right on top of an intersection it becomes an "intersection point". This is different from a viapoint or waypoint in that the GPS voice will not announce intersection points (but does announce the other two). The reason this is important is that the announcement of the viapoint will supersede the announcement of the turn by turn directions, so the GPS voice will never get around to telling you to turn. There is no such thing as an "intersection point" in the .gpx file format, so all intersection points become viapoints and get announced by GPS Jill.
Loading .gdb routes onto your GPS using the upload feature in Mapsource, regardless of where the routes were generated, is the best way to go IME.
Maura
Well-known member
karstenp
Well-known member
I am trying to convince myself to move over to Mapsource from S&Ts. The user interface is different...but this is something that I can relearn.
Advantages of Mapsource: I really like being able to compare multiple rally routes on the same screen and being able to upload colour coded waypoints into the GPS is also very nice. No need for interface software like GPSU.
Disadvantage: Calculation of destination times. This may be the deal breaker for me. S&Ts will calculate the actual date/time of arrival at a destination which is very useful for timed bonuses in a rally. Unless I am doing something wrong..... Mapsource only calculates the estimated cumulative time to the destination... Meaning that I have to do the math to determine actual time of arrival. Royal PIA...
Advantages of Mapsource: I really like being able to compare multiple rally routes on the same screen and being able to upload colour coded waypoints into the GPS is also very nice. No need for interface software like GPSU.
Disadvantage: Calculation of destination times. This may be the deal breaker for me. S&Ts will calculate the actual date/time of arrival at a destination which is very useful for timed bonuses in a rally. Unless I am doing something wrong..... Mapsource only calculates the estimated cumulative time to the destination... Meaning that I have to do the math to determine actual time of arrival. Royal PIA...
brick1
Well-known member
A couple of things about using Mapsource and S and T:
Mapsource: I like the "categories" organizer for the waypoints. I divide the point value range into different categories (any number of them depending on the range of point values). Then I can look at individual categories on the map, as opposed to looking at all the waypoints. For example, I might want to look at waypoints in my 500-999 point category. I can choose that category instead of looking at "all" the waypoints and the map is instantly simplified showing me only the category I want to look at.
What I don't like: being told they can't find a waypoint because I didn't use the proper St. or Saint, hyphenated names, etc. The spelling needs to be perfect. Routing in Quebec can be tough.
S and T: I like the quick way to construct a route, and the quick recalculation of a section of a route (as opposed to the Mapsource style of whole route recalculation everytime you change one little waypoint).
Truth is I run both, and google as I'm figuring out a route. Sometimes what isn't on one or the other is on the third.
The thumb drive delivery of waypoints saves many hours of work any way you cut it. I like it.
Mapsource: I like the "categories" organizer for the waypoints. I divide the point value range into different categories (any number of them depending on the range of point values). Then I can look at individual categories on the map, as opposed to looking at all the waypoints. For example, I might want to look at waypoints in my 500-999 point category. I can choose that category instead of looking at "all" the waypoints and the map is instantly simplified showing me only the category I want to look at.
What I don't like: being told they can't find a waypoint because I didn't use the proper St. or Saint, hyphenated names, etc. The spelling needs to be perfect. Routing in Quebec can be tough.
S and T: I like the quick way to construct a route, and the quick recalculation of a section of a route (as opposed to the Mapsource style of whole route recalculation everytime you change one little waypoint).
Truth is I run both, and google as I'm figuring out a route. Sometimes what isn't on one or the other is on the third.
The thumb drive delivery of waypoints saves many hours of work any way you cut it. I like it.
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
I wote this a year or so ago, and updated it with S&T 2010 information. There's a new Streets & Trips from DeLorme, as well, but its mapping and GPX support are unchanged, it's mostly updated maps, and a very nice interface for running it as a GPS on your laptop.
The biggest advantage to me for Streets and Trips or Street Atlas either one is the lack of tool switching. You don't have to get a zoom tool, then a pointer tool, then a route tool, then a waypoint too, then back to the zoom tool. That is a real hassle. Streets & Trips 2008, the first one I used, was almost as bad, but 2010 has it covered very nicely. Street Atlas has long been the absolute ruller in doing anything on the map without tool-switching, though, with its excellent use of context pop-ups on the right-click menu.
Both Streets & Trips and Street Atlas now export GPX files, but that isn't the same as tranferring a route from MapSource. In a Streetpilot or Zumo with maps matching your PC map files the route works. Period. It's the same on the device as on the PC. (OK, there are exceptions, but . . .) A route built as a GPX file and imported it into MapSource for transfer may need tweaking, since the map data is different in each program. If it's different enough, it may not have been worthwhile to use the other program in the first place.
Biggest Streets & Trips advantage: download of up-to-data construction data! It tells you exactly where road work is going on, and when it's scheduled to be going on. Well, that and the way you can treat pushpins as databases. That's pretty cool, too.
MapSource offers absdolutely nothing in the way of printouts. Both the others offer very nice reports, and stuff that would work very nicely in the map window of your tank bag. Both offer customization of schedules and preferred speeds, although Streets & Trips uses a vague "slower" to "faster" scale for road types while Street Atlas uses specific speeds, i.e. set Limited access to 80mph. Streets & Trips also offers an "optimize" button. Shotgun-blast your map with waypoints and tell it to go, and it will find the most efficient route through all the points. Good for those county seat or dam tour rides.
As to your original question, keep in mind I am not a competitive rallyer, but I use Mapsource for absolutely nothing other than loading GPX files from the other programs and transferring them to the GPS receiver.
The biggest advantage to me for Streets and Trips or Street Atlas either one is the lack of tool switching. You don't have to get a zoom tool, then a pointer tool, then a route tool, then a waypoint too, then back to the zoom tool. That is a real hassle. Streets & Trips 2008, the first one I used, was almost as bad, but 2010 has it covered very nicely. Street Atlas has long been the absolute ruller in doing anything on the map without tool-switching, though, with its excellent use of context pop-ups on the right-click menu.
Both Streets & Trips and Street Atlas now export GPX files, but that isn't the same as tranferring a route from MapSource. In a Streetpilot or Zumo with maps matching your PC map files the route works. Period. It's the same on the device as on the PC. (OK, there are exceptions, but . . .) A route built as a GPX file and imported it into MapSource for transfer may need tweaking, since the map data is different in each program. If it's different enough, it may not have been worthwhile to use the other program in the first place.
Biggest Streets & Trips advantage: download of up-to-data construction data! It tells you exactly where road work is going on, and when it's scheduled to be going on. Well, that and the way you can treat pushpins as databases. That's pretty cool, too.
MapSource offers absdolutely nothing in the way of printouts. Both the others offer very nice reports, and stuff that would work very nicely in the map window of your tank bag. Both offer customization of schedules and preferred speeds, although Streets & Trips uses a vague "slower" to "faster" scale for road types while Street Atlas uses specific speeds, i.e. set Limited access to 80mph. Streets & Trips also offers an "optimize" button. Shotgun-blast your map with waypoints and tell it to go, and it will find the most efficient route through all the points. Good for those county seat or dam tour rides.
As to your original question, keep in mind I am not a competitive rallyer, but I use Mapsource for absolutely nothing other than loading GPX files from the other programs and transferring them to the GPS receiver.
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